Newborn to 1 Month, December '04

Hi Girls,

Jess just thought that I might be able to give you a few pointers, being the nursing cow that I am :)

Your nippples will settle down, they just have to toughen up alittle. So many people think that breast feeding is painfree and perfect from day 1. It takes time and practice from both you and Aidan. Don't try and rush his feeds, it will only end up with him having pains in the belly. If you find he does dose off give him a little rub under his chin to get him sucking again or try to take your nipple out of his mouth by putting your pinky in the side of his mouth, he will soon start sucking again if he wants it. Alot of breastfeed babies are just suckers and find great comfort in this, this is where a dummy can come in handy, even if only to give your bb's a break. If your nippples are still killing you, try using a nipple shield, alot of childhealth nurses advise against them but they aren't the ones with sore nipples. I found them to be great and they gave my nipples a good chance to heal then I could feed comfortably again.

HTH, feel free to email me if you need anymore help. My poor old boobs have seen so much feeding, I fed the eldest 2 boys for 9months each and Noah for 20 months, I wonder if I can get this one up to 2 years :)

Take care
Trish

Hi girls! Finally a chance to jump online again.

I find it really interesting to read about how everyone else is coping with BF etc. Ashleigh is a very fast feeder (BF) and we can do a feed and nappy change in 20 minutes. She is definately a sucker though and will finish feeding and just keep sucking away as long as I let her. I'm just never sure if she is getting enough, but after a weigh this morning she is now 4kg - that's 400gm approx since last week!!! Obviously something is working well there.

We are currently going through the very difficult time of trying to go down for naps by herself - ie without being held, rocked etc to sleep. Listening to her cry is heartbreaking, but I really don't want to be having to rock her to sleep for the next few years. She hates being wrapped snugly so that doesn't help (neither does the hot weather here in Perth lately!) It seems too young to start this, but we have to start it sometime don't we?!! I find the morning ones easier to cope with, by the early evening I can't deal with it and put her on a pillow next to me on the sofa. She just drops off and will sleep for a couple of hours.

I'm trying the Babywise routine - is anyone else using this? I'd be really interesed to know how you are coping if you are. Tegan I am in awe of you and Lily - 8hrs in one go!!!! The best we have had is 4hrs, but again that's part of the routine we are using.

couple of hours later: Have been checking out some websites and have just come across one that totally slams the Babywise routine - I didn't know much about this before I started, and since reading this article am terrified of going ahead with these principals. The book was recommended by a friend who has found it worked really well for her. I now don't know what to do!!!! Ashleigh is putting on weight, and we seem to be falling into a routine that helps us all get some sleep - do I keep on or do I just try and wing it? I am really worried that I'm going totally the wrong direction here. What else should I do? I thought I had a plan, but am now doubting it. Any advice?

cheers,
Anna

Trish, thanks for all your great advice! Aidan and I are pleased to say we are getting better and better at this b/f business. Today he has been 4hourly with one 3hour and feeds take about 30mins, we are both very happy!

Hi Mipsy, how old is Ashleigh? I havent heard of the routine you were talking about but it sounds to me like yout current one is pretty good (not that I'm an expert!)

Nurse came today and Aidan has put on 160g in 3 days when the average is 130g - 190g per week! He is 100g off his birth weight. I think my little man aint gonna be little for long!

Talking to a neighbour today he was shocked that Aidan doesnt sleep in my room and we dont have a sensor monitor - is that a bad thing? Who has bubs in their room and who has sensor monitors? We have a standard Sleep Easy monitor which seems to do the job, but this neighbour has me wondering if I should worry more at sleep time?

Jess

p.s. Beth, hope you make it here soon!!!

Anna, we had a bit of a discussion about our routines recently in the 1-6 month forum. Most of the girls found that the babywise kind of routine didn't work for them and let thier babies set thier own routines but if its working for you then stick with it. If you thought that you are doing a good job then you probably are. Whatever parenting style you choose there will be people and websites to slam it. Don't forget that to put up a website all you need is a server, a web design program and a point of view. Expertise is optional. Personally I like the happy baby/happy mummy parenting philosophy. The way it goes is, if baby and mummy are happy then everyone else can keep thier opinions to themselves.
With the wrapping I thought that Yasin hated it too but then one of my friends told me that her echn said that all new mothers thought that thier babies hated wrapping and convinced me to try it a couple of times and to my suprise it worked. In the heat I just dress him in a nappy and singlet and use a muslin wrap.

Jess, Lily sleeps in our room in the bassinet. I've bought one of those angel care breathing monitors for when we put her in the cot(when shes around 3-4 months old). I don't think it's a basd thing having Aidan in a different room to you. It's a pretty good idea actually, coz then he'll be used to it right from the start.

Mipsy, If the routine your going with is working well for both of you, then i think you should stick with it. With Lily, i just feed her when she wakes up on her own, which can be any where from 4 hours to 8 hours inbetween feeds. Then after i just put her back in her bassinet and let her fall asleep by herself. Sometimes it works, other times she gets a little antsy, but if i give her the dummy then she just quite happily sucks on it til she falls asleep. Although, if the dummy falls out she whimpers til it's back in!

Jess, no problem. Sounds like you and Aidan are doing great. Thats a good effort on his weight gain too. See now you know that your milk is filling and nourishing him. You should be proud of you and your bb's :)

Take care
Trish

mipsy the routine decision is truely up to you & your baby. I have a friend who finds that babywise was fantastic for their family & the baby settled really well with it..... Matilda on the other hand, I wouldn't have even attempted it with her as when she was one week old she would work herself up so much that she would vomit & get too carried away. Have a read at what some of the other mums are doing in the 1-6 months as dachlostar said, it does help having mums around who have recently gone through this!

Jess- Matilda would feed for hours like I said before, but as time went on she would gradually get quicker, at 10 weeks she would feed for 15 minutes either side.... so it does get better.... I would tickle her feet & play with her chin while she was feeding to keep her awake. I would also sometimes even change her nappy when she fell asleep to wake her up & get going again...Good luck!!

thanks for the vote of confidence! You have all managed to set my mind at bit more at rest. I really was in a flat panic yesterday thinking I was doing Ashleigh unmentionable damage. (didn't help that Aust Breastfeeding Assoc hates Babywise also). I think I will try a modfied version of it and will check out the routine thread as well though. I am the sort of person who needs some sort of guidelines to follow - especially when I have no idea what I'm doing!!!!

With the wrapping, I would like to use it, but she gets frantic trying to get her arms out and kick her legs free. I can see the benifits - incl no more scratched face! - but can't see how to get her through it. Everytime I try she gets so worked up!

cheers
Anna

Mipsy, I haven't read in detail about the babywise routine from the controversial Christian (?) book "Becoming Babywise" by Garry Ezzo (which I believe is controlled crying from infancy, scheduled feeding - not demand feeding, anti-attachment parenting, etc.), but I just wanted to include something here because it's something I strongly believe in, one of my motivators for starting the site. When my daughter was four months, we failed two weeks of sleep school for controlled crying and it was one of the worst experiences and regrets I have as a parent, being told to enforce routine where it clearly wasn't working.

Firstly, I just want to make it clear that I am not putting down anyone's parenting style or skills, we will always support anyone who seeks help or advice. I am only sharing my opinion and experiences on the matter as it's one of the main reasons for this site to exist.

As a general comment, I believe (as do many other gentle parenting advocates and organisations) that controlled crying and scheduled feeding should not be taught to newborns, it can be detrimental to their physical and mental health. There are warnings against this by world infant health organisations - see this Australian article in PDF format (you need Adobe Acrobat Reader to see) here on the website of the Australian Association for Infant Mental Health. From articles I have seen about it, the Ezzo methods of feeding have reportedly been linked to FTT (failure to thrive), which includes premature weaning, dehydration, poor weight gain etc. I believe Ezzo also supports spanking which I don't either (just a personal opinion, not saying others shouldn't too). There was even one point made in an article where his book claims there is nothing to prove tummy sleeping is an indicator for SIDS.

I know it would be really nice to have newborns which sleep when we want, feed when we want, play when we want - but they are only tiny babies who need lots of love and cuddles - it's not 'spoiling' your baby! In fact, methods like baby wearing have shown to be greatly beneficial to baby's development. As for routine, they will learn this themselves through 'gentle' routine and I don't mean 'gentle' only to baby but mum and dad too. I know how emotionally tough it is trying to install routine. I cried many a time seeing the nurses take her away and watch her cry (mostly not leading to a sleep).

We stopped trying everyone else's routine and followed our own. My first eventually started sleeping through the night at a little over 2 years old but was without tears and she is the happiest little thing ever. She now tells me she's tired and says "I want to go to bed mum" at 2.5 years old. My second (8 weeks now) is a fabulous sleeper, but this time, I'm more confident as a parent and I know what I want to acheive - and I think I know or work out what he wants most of the time too! At night, around 7pm, I can wrap him, put him in his cot, and he will look around and be asleep in less than a minute - not to wake again until sometime around 12-3am for a feed and he goes back down. They all have their nights but this is the minority. This is all without any crying.

I know when I was speaking to Pinky McKay after a seminar a year or so ago, she was chatting with parents seeking help, from some of the first generation of children who had come from controlled crying, they were actually having new sleeping problems which she believed may be associated to controlled crying. Controlled crying is fairly new, so I wonder what it will bring as the years unfold. I truly believe letting nature take it's course and letting little ones learn to settle with gentle techniques it the most effective. It may take longer in some cases, but I know the two weeks I spent trying to get Marisa into routine at the sleep school was so traumatic, I couldn't imagine how it would be for longer periods of time on the parent.

I strongly recommend those wanting to learn about effective gentle settling techinques to read Pinky's books - "100 Ways to Calm the Crying" and "Parenting by Heart". They will really give you the confidence to make decisions as a parent for your own children. YOU are the expert.

Some things that have helped me this time is being extra vigilant with tired signs. When I pick it up, it's easier to wrap him and put him down (sometimes he likes his arms out though!). A good day's sleep helps a good nights sleep for him, as he isn't overtired. Also, I believe that each baby is different and there are times when you can do everything right, but it doesn't work everytime! I remember a stage before Marisa just turned two, we'd do all the quiet time things, bath, books, bed etc, but she'd just get out of bed and run up and down the hallway at some ungodly hour! It passed but was very trying!

Mipsy - I hope you don't see this as an attack on you or your methods at all, it's not intended to be. Babies grow up so fast. Enjoy your cuddles (and lots of them!) and when in doubt, follow your heart.

Well said Kel!!

Experience helps heaps hey!

Thanks Kel - I was sweating it out there waiting for a positive or negative reaction!!! It's all said with good intention ... :) I'm not here to enforce change or offend. I'm really enjoying being mum second time around, it's wonderful not being so anxious... might even be talk of a third in the air eventually :o 8-[ ;)

Mipsy - I just want to say that you shouldn't worry too much that if you rock bub to sleep now she will come to depend on it for years - I rocked Harry to sleep as a young baby but by the time he was 9 months old he didn't need it anymore. Every baby is different but I don't believe that rocking will cause long term hassles.
I tried controlled crying when he was 10 months old and found it worked but I don't believe that controlled crying for newborns works (just my opinion and if you find it is working for you then do it)

BTW - Pinky McKay's books are great

Bon

Just quickly, I have to agree with you Bon on what you said about rocking them to sleep. I found that one of the easiest methods of getting him to sleep when he was a newborn was to rock him in our arms nearly every night to soft music. However once he hit about 5 months he just wouldnt fall asleep in our arms anymore so we had to try different methods of settling him into his bed.

And just on the routine note... I remember feeling quite lost as well, feeling like I should have some sort of routine for Aidyn, cause otherwise he would turn out to be impossible in the future. But he surprised us by managing to get into his own routine by 8 weeks - sleeping through the night and all!

Aidyn used to scratch his face up HEAPS as well... I ended up making him wear little scratch mitts to bed at night. I think you can get thin cotton ones so they are not too hot for this summer weather.

Hi girls, here I am at last! Glad to hear everyone is doing well, Jess & Tegan, it's great to hear about your experience so far. And Jess, I couldn't agree with you more about bellybelly now being more useful than ever!

Well, I have to admit that I wasn't doing so well at the start, and was stressing and panicking like you wouldn't believe. I just felt totally overwhelmed and unprepared. Didn't have the greatest experience in hospital, and don't yet feel able to write my birth story. Had lots of conflicting advice from midwives and was relieved to get home and start to work things out for myself. Kaleb is just gorgeous and I have now started to figure him out and feel a lot more confident. I have switched to formula, after battling with the guilt, and now have a much happier baby, cos boy does he like to feed! I've been giving him feeds of 120mls, about 6 every 24 hrs. He would gobble it down in 5 minutes flat if he had his way, but I was advised to try and make it last 20 minutes minimum. Jess, he is also sleeping in his own room with no worries so far. One problem is he absolutely hates having his nappy changed and will scream every time, any advice on how to tackle this one?

Now that things are settling down, I look forward to being online a bit more!

Forum Name: Beth
State: QLD
Baby's DOB: 11/12/04
Baby's Stats: Weight - 8lb 14oz Length - 53.5cm Head Circ - 37cm
Gender of Baby: Boy
Baby Name(s): Kaleb John

Hey Beth! So glad you could find the time to join us. Lily also hates having her nappy changed. She screams like theres no tomorrow! I find putting the dummy in helps ALOT! Kaleb was born at 3:15pm on the 11th hey? That's only one minute before Lily was born! Pretty cool huh?

Wow at Kaleb and Lily being born 1 min apart. That is pretty amazing !!!

Love

Beth, good to see you online again. I hope you recover quickly. I didn't really want to think much about Yasin's birth for a while afterwards and it took me about a month to feel up to writing his birth story.
Yasin used to scream when his nappy was changed too but he seems to have grown out of it now. I think that its just because its such a new experience for them that its a bit scary. You'll get quicker and he'll get more used to it.
What an amazing coincidence that Kaleb and Lily were born only 1 minute apart.

Beth, wish I could give you a big hug!

I too had a rough first few days, so you arent alone there! I would be giggling one minute and crying the next. To be honest I am going through another rough patch (last night I cried all the way through Aidan's feed from the frustration). B/f is so messy and although not so painful anymore, I hate how I cant relax as 1 minute Aidan will be sucking away happily and if he gets a little tired and loses grip, the shooting pain in my nipple is excruciating. We are also finding it difficult to get into a perfect position. I normally lay down for the right and hold him the standard way for the left, but some feeds the milk is coming out so fast he misses half of it and it goes all over him and me #-o

DH just wants me to be happy and has mentioned formula and I try to ignore him as I want to try so hard at this and it has only been 10 days so I just gotta perservere! Beth, DO NOT feel guilty, b/f to me is the only thing I am having difficulties with and it feels so easy to stop when I know how much happier and pain free I will be and how I would enjoy time with Aidan more if I wasn't b/f.... will keep you posted on how I go.

One question, Aidan always makes a funny noise when feeding, like a high pitched swallowing noise. I worry he is getting too much air as he gets the hiccoughs after almost every feed and I am worried about colic. Any thoughts?

Oh and Beth, sorry no suggestions about the changing. Although I find when I change Aidan in his room he doesnt cry compared to when I change him on his change table in the bathroom (probably due to temperature, lighting and cosiness).

Jess

p.s. Trish, I am going to invest in a nipple shield today!

Kelly, enjoyed your post!

Jess - Have you tried a breast pump??? Liam wouldnt attach properly in the first few weeks. The midwife called him hickey boy *lol* (I had marks everywhere!! Some times he was fine and others was not. I was getting frustrated and he was too. Mine cost about $100 and I still use it on occasions now. Well worth it. Even if you use it for 2 months it would be the same amount what you would have paid in forumla and I found him to be more relaxed after a bottle of EBM than he was at the breast.

Jess - Elijah does the swallowing noise sometimes too but I have found if I stop feeding and sit him up on my sholder giving a gentle pat - it usually results in a big burp ;) Hope that helps and glad you enjoyed my other post :) With the shooting pains in your nipple, sounds like you could have nipple thrush. Especially when your nipples are battered, thrush can get in and can be passed back and forth to mum and bub, so both of you will need to be treated if the case. Might be something to check out with your GP/Ob although some GP's don't believe such a thing exists! If your hospital has a breastfeeding clinic they will help and support you. I had a split in my nipple with Marisa which led to thrush (she had it in her mouth too, white spots) and I sought help and was actually able to feed through it until she was 2! I remember so well the toe curling, eye watering shooting pain... so if you get that, maybe it's thrush.

In regards to the changing, Elijah only cried when it was cold too - I now get a towel and change him in his room or the lounge and he's totally fine. :)

Matilda used to cry with nappy changes for the first 8 weeks or so too... I'm sure it had to do with the whole temperature thing as well...

Jess, if it sounds like Aidan is gulping and he is getting the hiccups, your milk maybe flowing alittle too fast for him. I used to drown my boys all the time, I found it helps if you lean back alittle while feeding hm, make him come to you not you to him IYKWIM this way he has to actively suck and your milk won't be squirting straight down his throat as fast. Your nipples will get used to all of these different sensations, sad I know but what do you do. I agree with Kelly, check out Aidans mouth for little white spots - it could be thrush which would affect his sucking and hurt your nippples, you can get drops for bub and a nipple cream for yourself.

HTH

Take care
Trish

Thanks so much everyone. I think it is just a matter of my milk flowing too fast so I will try sitting back a little, as he loses grip when my milk is probably squirting so fast into his mouth, thats why I get the pain. Aidan slept for about 6 hours straight last night so I am all fresh for New Years Eve and I have expressed 1 feeds worth so I can have just a few beers.

Spiddles I guess that answers your question, I bought a breast pump a few days ago and that gave my nipples a chance to recover. I think now it is just a matter of patience and practice. We'll get there!

Happy New Year everyone! :D \:D/

Jess

hi there - soorry to come into this thread - although i miss it already lol just wanted to let you know jess you are doing a great job. breast feeding can be so difficult and you can get heaps of different info on positions and everything sometimes you wonder sheesh i will just give up and try the formula, but if you want to persevere do so, around 6 wks it wil all settle down and you will feel like an old pro - flopping the boob out whenever aiden is hungry lol.

in my experience - i fed my first dd until she was 12mths - at around 4wks i was going through hell and bought formula already to pop her on the bottle, however we had the gas strike and i couldn't boil the water (did not think of the kettle lol) so i stuck with it and it worked out well.

i fed ds only for 12wks unfortunately but he was a shocking feeder from day 1 not very interested and having a toddler running around i couldn't sit down all day to try and feed him - a shame really cause he was diagnosed with a lot of allergies however at 4 1/2 he is a happy robust young man.

with lani i am still breastfeeding and hopefully will continue as long as i can, it is convenient etc and for me i don't stress that she hasn't had enough as i can't see lol. however those first few weeks were hell on the nipples even after 3, i forgot about the pain so it does go, i used the cream lansinoh (sp?) and apparently this can be used in pregnancy to prepare the nipples - lock that one into memory bank for number 4 lol.

just go with it, you will be fine and do whatever you think is comfortable for you and bubs remember a happy mum is a happy bubs don't stress they so pick up on it.

well i am off to express a bottle as am going to movies with dh tommorrow and mum is looking after the kids - lani has not had a bottle of ebm since around 7wks so mum may be in for a treat oh well always the teaspoon.

sorry for the epic