Goodbye little Caterpillar

I am home now. A little woozy and dizzy from the anaesthetic still, but I'm ok.

Thank you all so much for your kind words and thoughts, they really do mean a lot to me.

DH has been a wonderful support to me today. Even my FS has been wonderful. I will go back to see him in 2-3 weeks, and I know that will be an appointment to work on the "head stuff" as he puts it. Surprisingly, the head stuff is doing pretty ok - it's as though I always knew - with thinking that we've done it once, we know we can do it again... and the Dr S back up plan...

I will be off work for the week. I know with the help of everyone here that I can get through this.

Thank you all once again.

BW

So very very sorry to hear of your loss...

Jo

Oh BW :( I'm crying. So unfair, so cruel. When i was where you are all that helped was a hug, a touch, a look, and i'm too far away to offer even those tiny things. I'm so sorry sweetheart. So sorry.

Love

Bx

BW, i am so sorry for your loss of caterpillar. i wish my tears could make you better, but know that they are here for you along with hugs. m

So glad you are back in your own bed... :hugs: You will get through this time. It feels so so painful and raw right now but in time it will get a little better... You have us all in here to lean on. Many of us understand only too well the pain - :hug:
Eat good food, get into the warm sun and rest as you heal through your loss... :hug:

BW, you are sounding a lot stronger and braver than you are probably feeling, but thank you for letting us know you're okay. I hope you recover physically as quickly as possible. I wish I could give you a hug too, hun.

You have done it once and you WILL do it again. I'm having some serious words with the big guy upstairs that BW and her DH have had enough life experience now, time to make things easier for them, please. Take care of yourself for the week. I'll be thinking of you.

Oh BW I am so so soorry for your loss of your precious bubba...

I hope you can find stregnth in one another at this terribly sad time..

Hugz

Oh BW sweetie... I am so so sorry for your loss....

Oh Dear BW, very sorry for your loss:hugs:

I am so sorry :hugs:

Oh no BW. I have no idea what to say because absolutely nothing will heal your broken heart at the moment. Please know that you and your DH are in my thoughts and prayers. Little catepillar look out for your mummy and daddy and never forget how much they love you.

OOOH Hun, I am broken hearted to have read your post, 'why?" It is the question I find myself asking over & over again!!!

IU dont have any words that will ever ease your pain, but I am thinking of you at such a time!!!!

This morning... not so great.

I keep wondering if it was something I did... the spotting I got when I reduced my prednisone dose, the bout of vomiting I had from eating something that upset my stomach - what if it really was food poisoning? The stemetil I took out of sheer desperation before I could see my GP, that I later realised was out of date. Following my GP's instructions to reduce the dose of metformin because I was eating way less than normal while I was sick... I know the insulin resistance does impact on the likelihood of miscarriage, yet I actually reduced my dose for a few days - what the hell was I thinking?!

I'm really starting to question things this morning. Both my rheumy and my FS have assured me many times over that my arthritis thing is nothing to worry about. I even specifically asked my FS yesterday if it could have caused this and he said no. But I can't help wondering... while ever we can't put a name to what this is, I can't be sure. I'm starting to doubt the Dr S plan. I've had two specialists say I've got nothing to worry about, will I just end up feeling stupid if I go that way?

I've got appointments to cancel, people to tell... and I just can't face any of it right now.

BW

Can you get someone else to make these phone calls on your behalf honey?
I remember sitting staring at the phone not wanting to pick it up too.

BW hun - i know it's hard, but please don't think of ways that you may have been responsible for this happening. in most cases, there simply isn't an explantation, and blaming yourself isn't going to change that. you have done everything asked of you through this journey and this is a very unfortunate, tragic ending - but you are not responsible. you have lost a very big part of you, and you have every right to grieve and you won't be able to do that if you're looking at ways to blame yourself.

the coming weeks, and possibly months, are going to be hard, as far too many of us here on BB can tell you. please remember, we're here for you - through the bad days, the better days, and the downright horrific ones that we all have. my heart is aching that yet another lovely lady has had to learn this horrible pain - please call on us at any time you need additional support throughout this journey hun

take care hun - sending my love to you and DH again - rest up, grieve openly and honestly, and take each day one hour at a time.

love

BG and Mr B

There was nothing that you did wrong. You are a wonderful mother to Caterpillar and nothing will ever change that. I know what it is like to blame yourself, but I also know that Caterpillar loves their mummy and always will.

Take the time you need, the calls will wait.

Sending you big love and warm :hugs:

Lv Spring

BW, get someone else to make the calls hun. I didn't want to talk to anyone for days and days. Take care, and stay close to DH.

BW, I agree, get DH or someone close to make as many of the calls as possible. I couldn't bear it so my DH did all the 'untelling'. Because I was admitted to the hospital after my D&C they took care of cancelling all my appts which was a blessing in disguise.

I'm not sure exactly what the Dr S plan is hun, but I know that he'll do anything he can to help you, even if it's just a one off consult to have a chat and pick his brains.

Thinking of you...

The Dr S plan...

Basically, I've always been worried that my arthritis thing would cause problems in pregnancy. The auto-immune factor and all. It was always in the back of my mind to consult with Dr S before we started on IVF, but I let my rheumy and FS talk me out of it.

I don't want to completely switch to a different FS. As much as I might grumble about the head stuff that mine can go on with, I do know I need it, and between him and the acupuncturist I've managed to get through all of this without councelling. I'm not sure I'm going any further, though.

When my GP wrote my referral to the OB, he printed out all of the bloodwork that my rheumy has done. I'd always been told I was rheumatoid factor negative, and I assumed that that meant I had no rheumatoid factors in my blood at all, but those pages upon pages of blood work show it's not the case - they are under the limit, but they are there. It's not the first time I've tested under the limit for something, but still had problems. I've had quite severe problems with my liver at times, when LFTs are only slightly out and doctors tell me it shouldn't be a problem - I appear to have a very, very sensitive system.

After we got pregnant, I started to think that if I were to lose the baby, I'd consult with Dr S before we went for another transfer - just to be on the safe side. Now, I can feel I'm letting my rheumy and FS talk me out of it again. I want to believe them, but I also know they aren't specialist immunologists, and Dr S may just be able to discover what this thing actually is, rather than just give me a long list of what it isn't.

I'm scared that I'll feel silly if I consult Dr S - that it really is nothing, and losing this baby was just plain bad luck.

I'm feeling so damned indecisive right now. I told DH yesterday that I wanted to see Dr S before we tried again, but he hasn't done the reading I have, he believes what the doctors have told me.

I also don't want to upset my FS by seeking a second opinion - especially as the doctor I'd be seeing belongs to a clinic he walked out of. This man may infuriate me some times, but he held my hand and let me cry yesterday. He kissed my forehead before taking me into surgery because he could see that I was scared half to death once I had to leave DH.

I think I'm just getting plain incoherent and babbling now. It is helping a little to talk things through. I just wish it weren't so bloody hard to make a decision right now!

BW

BW, nothing you did caused little caterpillar to grow his wings and fly away. I know it is so very hard not to blame yourself. You think of all the things that you did and think what if. I know because I have done it. You did everything you could do to protect your baby but unfortunately life is so cruel and unfair that bad things happen to good people. I always think what could I have done differently so that Cooper would be here right now. I know I can't go back and deep down I know that there was nothing that I could have done. But it still doesn't stop the thoughts going through our heads. I remember when I lost Cooper I said had I not suffered enough waiting 2 years to conceive him, now I am suffering again at losing him. It is just so heartbreaking when you struggle for so long and need assisted conception only to lose our precious miracles.

You will feel indecisive right now. Your head is all over the place as is your emotions. You need to give yourself time to grieve. Perhaps get someone to make the phone calls for you and give yourself time to make decisions. If you feel like you need a second opinion then get it. Don't feel bad about it. You need to do what is right for you. It is so hard to make decisions. I know when I lost Cooper I couldn't make any decisions, I wanted to change everything. But I stayed with my ob because he knows my history, he knows me. You need to do what is right for you and you may just need a bit of time to think things through. When you are ready talk to Dr S and tell him what your fears are, what you are thinking.

If it is helping to talk things through you might want to think about seeing a counsellor. It works for some and not others but if it is right for you, it might just help you say what you are feeling. My thoughts are with you, sending you a big big :hug:

BW Iam just so so sorry... No words can offer you anything now so I will send you lots of hugs :hugs::hugs::hugs:

Maybe wait a little before doing anything.. I know after each failed cycle that I have done, I have been a nightmare of emotion, and just not thinking for good or bad. I can only imagine what you're going through is much much harder... the answers will come to you when you've had a little time xxx

My thoughts and wishes are with you, sometimes posting just isn't enough, I just want to put my arms throught the computer screen and hug you xxx

Much love to you & your DH,

Love Holly
xxx

BW - I went through the same thought after Caitlyn. The early miscarriage guy and my gynae (post the event when I asked him) said they would have commenced me on anticoagulants due to my blood clotting disorder. Your (and mine at the time - just a first consultation) FS said no, there was no need for the anticoagulant due to the type of clotting disorder (supposed to be less / not a problem). I believed the FS (I wasn't happy with the early miscarriage guy who did the tests purely to shut me up but oops!! A problem was found) and didn't look into aspirin / heparin / clexane etc for her pregnancy.

My regrets - not following my intuition and believing a professional who is extremely skilled in his area of expertise but who has no idea (just my opinion) about the other issues I had in my case. I was dismissed of my fears without discussion of the current research and literature.

The result - my baby died. Whether they are related, I will never know but I still have the belief that I didn't do all I could to protect Caitlyn. I should have fought and gone further. I should have got a third opinion.

My advice - seek the opinion of Dr S. He specialises in this area and your medical history is significant enough to warrant this opinion. You are entitled to a second opinion, regardless of what the other specialists think. You will not feel happy with the progress of you medical care until you have covered all bases.

You did not cause the death of your caterpillar. No matter how hard it is to believe, nothing you did or didn't do caused this. Big hugs :hug:

BW - I am so very sorry for your loss. My heart just broke and tears ran down my face when reading about your loss. Please accept my heartfelt condolences. Please know that by any means "You are NOT resposible for the Loss of your much loved baby". I know right now it is hard to imagine anything different, because it is something that we tend to do. We tend to blame ourselves. You may have days that no matter which way you turn the pain is just so unbearable. Please know that we are here for you whenever you need to talk. If it helps to have something that you can get comfort out of or just want to spend some time with your caterpillar, why don't you think of a plant, or a special song that you can listen to, or even a baby braclet and engrave on it. I did all of this as a special token to my beloved Angels for me to hold forever. I also wrote a special letter, when I had lost my Angels and let them know that I loved them so much, I wrote down how I felt and how sad and empty I was, and how much I wished I could have held them, touched them and even smelt them and have their head rub against my face. I wrote my experience down and let them know that I would always love them. I found this helped me in some small way, and also gave me a sense of comfort when ever I want it. I cry even now to the song by Enya I have chosen for my muched loved Angels and feel them with me also. I cry when I hold my babies bracelets and all the other keep sakes that I had put aside. All I thought to myself back then, was if I could not give life to my darlings then I had to give them something. My heart breaks to this day and it has been over 5 and a half years since my first m/c. This will stay with you forever and you will always remember, but something changes in you when you do lose something so special. In some ways it also can make you stronger, and also gives you something even more special. That is feeling, helping, caring and supporting others that are going thru a loss. There is a connection that you get that you find you have with people in the same or similar situation to yourself. I honestly wish that you never had to experience such pain and sorrow and you may or may never find a reason for your loss, but please don't blame yourself. We mothers are natural protectors of our children and beat ourselves up so terribly when something goes wrong, we just can't help it, but please please do try not to blame yourself. Sometimes things happen that are just out of our control. Please look after yourself. My thoughts are with you.
:hug:

BW, I think Michelle is right. I've pm'd you hun.

BW I'm so terribly sorry and sad to read of your loss. My heart feels heavy for you and DH. My thoughts and prayers are with you. xxx

BW - I am so sorry for your loss... and I was sure this was YOUR time... my thoughts and love are with you and your DH... look after yourself and take the time to grieve and be angry and everything else that you are probably feeling right now. Take care hun :hugs:
Cherylxxxxxx

Butterfly... In life we can only act on the information we have at the time. You were following the steps given to you. We don't know why your Caterpillar flew away, we do KNOW WITHOUT THE SHADOW OF DOUBT THAT THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT. You are a very beautiful and intelligent woman. What you are feeling is a normal stage of this grief process. Feel it and let it wash over you - but check it against the reality. The reality is you were doing everything in your power and knowledge to protect your baby.

Now, that said. And I hope you don't feel bombarded because I feel much like Michelle. As you know I have had 3 tiny angels and 3 second trimester angels. I listened to the doctors (it was easier - they knew - they had the med degree I didn't...) I did't listen to that voice that we all have. I have learnt so much on my journey. I am ever grateful to my angels for teaching me. However, I too have so many many regrets. Had I listened to my voice, had I researched more.... But I did what I did with the full belief I was doing the "right thing". As did you. As did Michelle.. As did many belly belly women...

Now, you have a chance to get some more info. Your health and that of your future babies is so very important. Don't give a hoo about what your FS might think. YOu know something??? The mark of a very good professional is one who is happy to be checked. One who is happy to have his opinion, knowledge questioned (in a respectful way of course...).

My obs with my last 2 babies was a gorgeous man. But he didn't want to know about the things I was concerned about. He fobbed it off too. But my voice kept saying "BUT"!
Then the unthinkable happened again...
Then I went about interviewing some obs. They had a job selection panel in me! The good ones were respectful and in awe of what I had done. They read all the research papers I had purchased... They listened with great interest. They were happy to work with Dr S...

The bodgy ones felt threatened and I knew that I would never be heard properly by them. I then came upon my obs now. She listened with heart, ears, and intuition and I knew she was the one. She phoned Dr S. They came up with a plan - but they included me... As my obs said Iknew almost as much as she did about it by this time! (I am being humoruous - not egotistical)...

We need as health consumers - customers of the health system to be informed. We need to be respected. We need a service that we are happy with. If we go to a restaurant and we are not happy with the service, food, wine we point it out...We need not be afraid to do this with the professinals we have employed to look after our health.

I may sound hard. I may sound arrogant... But I hope not. I hope you can see that I too have been a woman that didn't listen to her WOMAN VOICE that ancient one that whispers to us. Sometimes it shouts. We hear when we are ready. Sometimes that's when we are brought to our knees. Sometimes it is earlier. For me I was a knees girl...

Now, Dr S may concur with your FS. You may research some more and decide it's okay. Don't settle Butterfly I urge you without getting more opinions. The price is too high.
Women with autoimmune issues have a higher rate of NK cell invasion (I know you know about this) Dr S can test you for this. Dr S is talented - and compassionate. I have never once detected an arrogance to him. He acknowledges there are no guarantees. But, he listens and he studies what you give him (re your history)... I believe you will get some answers with him. And if you don't? It's the cost of a consult...

I hope I am not being too pushy... I just believe with every ounce of my being that no stone should be left unturned when your voice is whispering. And yours is...

I am here for you, holding your hand as you go through this. I have been where you are so many times... Big big hugs and so much love to you Butterfly... :hug:

Be very very gentle with yourself. You are beautiful, strong and this sadly is part of your journey. Smiles will come again soon and your Caterpillar will always remain with you... :hug:

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Women with autoimmune issues have a higher rate of NK cell invasion (I know you know about this) Dr S can test you for this. Dr S is talented - and compassionate. I have never once detected an arrogance to him. He acknowledges there are no guarantees. But, he listens and he studies what you give him (re your history)... I believe you will get some answers with him. And if you don't? It's the cost of a consult...

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BW, I've put all this in my pm but just wanted to publicly say "I agree!!"

Deb, Michelle, just wanted to say again, you are both stars...

Flowerchild - What a wonderful post. Don't think that you sounded pushy because no way are you, and I am so certain that BW will say the same. It is so true that we need to be heard and to let our own judgement guide us. I know if I had not taken my life into my own hands then I would not have had my beautiful girls today. We need to do what is right for us, as after all it is our body they are playing with. You need to be completely happy with your healthcare provider and not feel as tho you are just another number. I applaud you. TC

BW, you did everything you could possibly have done with the knowledge you had to take care of yourself and your little caterpillar. If in the future, because of what has happened with your little caterpillar, you decide to seek further opinions or look into more information and find there is more you can do, it does not in any way make you responsible for what has happened.

A responsible parent is one who does their very best with the knowledge they have at the time. You have been a good and responsible parent throughout TTC and your pg. You cannot be blamed for not knowing things that it appears ppl who are experts don't even know.

I saw another BB member say somewhere once (and I apologise for not knowing who it was so that I can give them credit - if anyone else knows, please post it!) thank you to their angel who gave them the answers to be able to carry a child to term. Perhaps your little caterpillar is helping you in this way now. I hope I haven't said the wrong thing, BW... Prayers are with you.

And I applaud you CASB... Congratulations on your two daughters and the strength and courage that I know you have to have brought them into this world... We women are strong and courageous beasts... Sometimes we just need to be reminded... :hug:

Thank you. Just thank you. Deb, Michelle, Willow - you've all picked me up so many times before and you're all here for me again.

I guess because I'm doubting myself, I'm doubting what I'd set out as the back up plan in happier times. I need my friends to affirm what I'm thinking, that I'm not crazy, that I should follow my instincts... As Deb has said, I have nothing to lose, and everything to gain by following this path.

As much as I don't want to switch clinics and doctors, I think I do really NEED the advice of Dr S at this point. If David gets miffed that we sought a second opinion - too bad. As lovely as I have found all the staff at Next Gen, they just don't seem to have the answers to the questions I have right now.

I want to stick with David and Next Gen, but I guess I'm realising that it has to be on my terms, with the advice of Dr S behind me.

BW

Oh BW, I'm SO sorry for your loss :cry: I can't say anything to help, I just want you to know that you're in my thoughts and prayers. Take care of yourself and trust that what you decide to do will be right for you. :hugs:

BW - Good on you. You need to follow your own instinct, which is normally the correct one to follow. You are so strong and you can get thru this.:hug:

FC - Thanks, sometimes you just need to be strong, if not for yourself for your family. You are so right that we do need to be reminded every now and then. :hugs:

oh BW - my heart is breaking for you too, other people have said it all and I can only echo them I am so sorry your little baby didn't get to stay and grow. I agree with Michelle, deb and Willow and others too - leave no stone unturned.
Please know you are in my thoughts and prayers.

BW- I am so sorry you have to go through this. You really do NOT deserve this :(
All I can say is, please don't blame yourself. You might never find out why you lost your little one, but never think that it was something you did. You carried your caterpillar as long as you could. I don't know what else to say :(

Excuse my ignorance and if you don't mind me asking... who is Dr S?

My prayers are with you and your DH during this very hard time BW :hugs:

Nadine, Dr S is Dr Gavin Sacks with IVF Australia here in Sydney, or as a friend and I call him "God"!! LOL!

You can check him out on their website.

BW, as Deb said, any Dr worth their credentials will have no problem with you getting a specialist opinion.

BW My heart has just broken when I read your post hun. Please follow your heart and get that 2nd or 3rd or 4th opinion. Please be very kind to yourself and allow yourself time to heal sweety. I am so very sorry for you and your dh hun.Take care and my thoughts and prayers are with you guys.

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Deb, Michelle, Willow - you've all picked me up so many times before and you're all here for me again.BW

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I was thinking the same thing, only didn't think it was appropriate to hijack your thread. When you need us, we are but a heartbeat away. Our thread from before showed our love and support and you know we will be there for you, regardless of which path our journeys take. Just like you have been there for us :hug:

Oh No BW, I'm so sorry that this has happened to you. nothing i can say can make it any better. Just wanted to let you know how sorry i am and that i am thinking of you.

Julie x