Goodbye little Caterpillar

BW i really don't believe that anything you did hastened Caterpillar's exit - s/he just had to go. BUT i do think it is VERY important to listen to your gut at times like this.

There is nothing to be lost by seeking another opinion. If you don't, you will wonder forever and you will be terrified after your next FET. All the fear isn't worth it. Another loss isn't worth it.

Seek the second opinion you NEED to continue down this road. Follow your heart, we will all be here to carry the rest of you when you need it.

Love

Bx

BW, I'm not sure what to say but to say how sorry I am to hear of the loss of your little caterpillar. Heaps of hugs coming your way and am thinking of you

BW :hug: I am so sorry for your loss. I haven't had any BB time for the last two days and have been thinking about you since Sunday. I truly did not think that this would be the outcome. Please take care of you. Thinking of you. :hug:

BW i am so so so very sad for your loss, just know that we are all thinking of you and your dh and that we will always be here for you:hug::hug::hug:

BW

i am so sorry to hear of your loss i am sending you big :hugs: to you and your dh my thoughts are with you both.

Munchy xxx

The day is ending on a really bad note...

I have terrible arthritis pain, which is such a reminder of what I have lost.:cry:

:( :hugs:

I wish i could be closer. :hug:

Bx

I am close if you need me :hug:

BW,

I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your precious caterpillar, my thoughts are with you and DH :hugs:

BW, I don't know what to say. I must confess to feeling shock, disbelief and a sense of emptiness and uselessness. You are a wonderful woman, nothing you did was the cause of caterpillar's departure from this earth and as everyone else has said, you need to do what is good for you at this moment. Whether that means consulting Dr S or not. Give yourself time to grieve, and we will grieve right along with you.

God must have something very special in store for you life ahead. The fact that you have gone thorugh so many trials shows how strong you are. I know you don't feel strong at the moment, and you shouldn't really try and be I suppose, but I am constantly amazed at how you can pick yourself up and keep going. We all love you a lot and your loss causes us pain. I wish I could say something that helped :hug:

BW - have only just read this (been offline for a week).

Sweetheart I am so sorry, I don't have the words to express how this has made me feel, I know how much caterpillar was wanted and loved, by yourselves and by us all here.

Take it day by day, if you can't take it day by day, take it hour by hour, if that is too hard then minute by minute, if that gets to much then breath by breath.

Oh BW, i've been thinking about you all day. I hope you slept ok.

They say a problem shared is a problem halved. There must be a thousand of us out here wanting to shoulder this load with you. We must all be wishing we could take this away, and we can't. But maybe we can carry it with you, when it's too heavy. I hope you can feel our hands on you, our arms round you, our tears falling with yours.

You walked so far to get to here, and i was privileged just to walk a very little recent distance with you. There's ALOT more walking in this old dog BW. :)

:hug:

Bx

Last night was a really bad night.

I was told it would take a while for hormone levels to drop back down... I guess one small blessing is that seems to be happening fairly quickly. I had so much arthritis pain in my legs last night - I really didn't realise just how much being pregnant had eased those problems for me. It was a physically painful reminder of all that I had lost - as if the pain in my heart isn't bad enough. :cry:

When I go to bed it's even worse - all the things you can do to distract yourself stop then. I just couldn't get past the unfairness of it all. I've been so sick for so long, finally get well enough and we have trouble TTC, IVF was absolutely savage on me... but our first transfer works... and now this. I just sat there and cried over the fact that my mother and my sister are never sick, have never had to fight for something they want, have never really had to face loss... Why does it have to be so bloody hard for me... and then this... They get everything so easily, and every step of the way is a struggle for me. It's like I'm wearing the entire family's worth of crap and they get away free and easy.

DH is making the phone calls for me today. Cancelling the appointments I don't need any more, and making the ones I do. I think he understands now why I need to see Dr S. Yes, this could have just been a freak accident, but I have to know before I can go further whether my body was in any way responsible, and I have to do everything within my power to stop it happening again.

BW

BW, it's totally normal to feel that way sweetie, and most of the time night time is the hardest time.

I wish there was something I could do to make it all better, but no one can and that's why it is so hard.

I do promise you though that one day it will be easier, you just need to carry on as best you can until you reach that point. As you know, I struggled for months after our loss and I know that being sick and in pain too (although for me it was for different reasons) is just like an added insult....but coming here to BB and talking to these amazing women is what saved my sanity, I know you already know that, but I just want to encourage you to keep 'talking'.

I'm at work for the rest of the week but I am even closer than Michelle (I think) so if you ever need anything, don't hesitate to ask.

Today is just a really bad day. :cry:

I'm trying so hard to not sit here and think "I should be 9 weeks today" I don't think it's helpful to focus on what could have been... unfortunately, it's just too early to focus on the next step.

I just can't stop crying... and physically I don't know what to expect after the D&C. How long should I bleed for? Do I have to wait for another period before we can start again? And is that even likely to happen with my PCOS and lack of cycles?

Apart from that... I just feel ick - I haven't had a shower since Monday morning. I climbed into my PJs late Monday night when we finally got home from the hospital, and I just haven't moved since. I know it's revolting and festy... but I just can't see a point.

I feel it would be helpful to plant something... but we rent... and I just can't keep plants alive. I think if I were to get a plant to remember our Caterpillar with and it died too... I don't think I could recover.

If I'm so certain I'll get through this... why can't I put my life on fast forward for a while to get through the painful stuff?

BW

Hun :hug: It will take time but you will get there. Remember that you are brave and strong. I cant help much more than to say that I am praying for you and thinking of you and know that I am not alone in doing that. There are so many people out here wishing you all the best, and that will do anyting they can to help you through this. :hug:

Oh BW!! I'm so soo sorry :cry: please don't give up I know you can't see the light right now but it's there :hug:

Oh BW, honey, Ive only just seen this post. Im so sorry to hear you have lost your special caterpillar. It is so upsetting as I know just how deserving you were of this chance and its just not fair. It makes me angry, so angry.

:hugs:

I dont know what else to say sweetie, except that I am thinking of you and sending you strength to help get through this.

I hope Dr S can give you the answers you are seeking.

Oh Butterfly, I have been following your journey. My heart aches for you today. Hold on sweetie. Put your head down and just hold on. Sending you peace and love.
xoxooxoo :hugs:

Big hugs again today Butterfly... :hug:

I understand about thinking where you "should" be in your pregnancy. It hurts and it is hideous... :hug: I also understand about not wanting to plant something and for it to die. There are other things you can do if you choose... You could buy a special candle holder/candle. It could be caterpillars... You can light it whenever you need as a reminder... You can buy a book that is significant - of quotations or poetry that you can read when you need to feel close... I am sure the other women will have some ideas...

I want you to have a nice warm bath... Put some lavender/rose geranium in and soak... Soak away some of that pain.

I know that feeling of wanting to go to sleep and wake up when the pain is not as bad. I truly truly understand that feeling. But we can't. For some reason this is part of your life journey. It is so hard and painful but we have to go through it the best way we can. But few of us can do it alone. You don't have to because I don't think there is a single person in our beautiful Belly Belly community that isn't praying for you, who isn't feeling some of your pain for you... Remember that when you feel really dark. I know it won't help much but it will help some... :hugs:

Can you have a massage - just to release some of what is being held in that body of yours. It will ease you physically but I believe it eases your spirit some too. It could be a good thing...

I am a long way away but my thoughts are close. You can email me if you need to my love... :hug:

BW, huge cyber hugs for you today. You must be feeling awful. I think Flowerchild's suggestion to have a bath is a good idea. Go and run one and then see how you feel about hopping in. Thinking of you during this difficult time...

Sending you manyhugs again today BW :hug:

I have seen you get through so much already I know that you can get through this as well. Be strong in the knowledge that there are so many people who care about you so much.

BW - I counted the days and the weeks after Caitlyn was born until her due date and even now think "I would have had an X year old baby girl". It is completely normal and it gets us through to the other side. I am also the only one in my family that had *problems* (too many to mention :rolleyes:) and it is the worst feeling in the world but take the time to feel the "why me" feelings. You are allowed to feel cheated and angry and frustrated that you got it all and they got none. I remind my family now and *thank* them for making me so *special*.

Willow is right - she is closer, but you have my number. Thinking of you and sending you big hugs.

Now ....... out of those jammies, into the shower and make sure you EAT SOMETHING!!! Book an acupuncture session too and ask them to send you home with the ear acupuncture needle bandaids in your ears. They are like 5mg of valium (but drug free!!) and they were my lifeline for about 4-5 months after Caitlyn's birth.

Well... crap morning, but I feel like there's maybe a little spark of hope out there now.

Eventually I gave up fighting it this morning - I just went back to bed and cried... and cried a whole heap more... Gave myself a rotten headache, but feel as though a weight has been lifted from my heart.

I did eventually shower and dress - took until 3, but I got there. Couldn't face cleaning the bath to be able to use it, so as appealing as the soak in the tub with aromatherapy oils sounds, it's not going to happen. Still have a little blood loss, so probably not a good idea any way. Of course, the moment I go shower is the moment one of the clinic nurses calls to check on me. So typical, will have to try to remember to call her tomorrow.

The pregnancy appetite is subsiding - I'm sure it was the only thing that kept me going yesterday - being hungry all the time. Breakfast happened this morning, lunch happened around 4, but it did actually happen. There's been a few snacks during the day thanks to an angel from church who dropped around yesterday and brought food so I wouldn't have to worry about it. There's just something so comforting about being able to go grab something to eat that tastes good... I think if I were to cook anything right now it would taste like dust, I'd never realised just how much it can help to provide a meal for someone until now.

DH has instructions to bring more chocolate home with him. Poor dear, he sent me a silly text message trying to be funny, and got all the crap from the day poured out onto him in reply. He has promised to be home on time, which will make a nice change. He's really loving his new job (can I still call it new 6 months on?) and sometimes gets so engrossed in things he forgets to come home or to call... I can see what a huge effort he's making at the moment though, and I do love him for that.

I think acknowledging the way I feel and allowing myself to feel it has really helped. I know there'll be good days, bad days, days that are just complete and utter crap... I know when I've got something to focus on I'll feel better - I'm just not up to finding it or maintaining that focus just yet. I think my first step is going to be to adjust to life with arthritis pain again.

The hurt, the pain, the anger... it's all still there. But the peace is starting to seep in as well.

Thank you to everyone who reads my babble - it helps so much to be able to get it all out and know that people understand.

BW

BW, I was exactly the same when mine happened. I didn't want to get out of bed, I didn't want to do anything, but my DP, bless his cotton socks, got me dressed and took me out - it wasn't the best thing for me, but it was the thought that counted and thats what I love about him. :hug:

BW, all those things that you did today like have a shower and eat, although they may not feel like it, are huge achievements. It took me weeks to even get out of bed and the thought of going outside seemed all too much. In some ways, being home in the environment you feel safe in is exactly what you need. A shower is very theraputic, but hey, if you don't have one it isn't the end of the world. Just know that each day you get through is a step forward in the path to healing.

Lv Spring.

You have achieved a lot... And you are right to just let those feelings happen. Tht's part of this process of grief... :hug:

You've done masses today!

I was the same, especially after the 2nd one, i just wanted to sit on the sofa and stare into space. I can remember that hopelessness, but it does lift eventually, i promise.

By talking and letting those who love to be loving with you, you're doing absolutely the best possible thing. The feelings of regret and counting the weeks you would have been is so normal hun. Only a few months ago i was on here talking about how i still miss my little angels and how i'd have a 5 year old by now! These things never go away but it goes from being a horrible burden to carry them to being something you're glad to do. When i remember my angels i think of how lucky i was. They only got to come to earth for a few weeks and they chose to spend them with me. Remembering becomes a privilege not a trial.

I think the candle idea is a beautiful one. Something you can light, see the living flame dancing, and remember that though we are parted from our loved ones for periods of time there is no Death in God's kingdom.

If we left someone for you to care for, someone who had suffered a terrible blow, an awful loss, you would care for them BW. You would make sure they ate, they were clean and comfortable, you would listen to them and love them until they healed. Care for yourself as if you were nursing this stranger. Grant yourself the same time and energy, compassion and love, as you would another in your position. You are a wonderfully compassionate person - extend that compassion to yourself.

ETA: I just remembered, when i lost my first angel my DP brought home one day a big teddy bear from a charity shop. It was 2nd hand and it smelled like baby. Holding it was incredibly painful and incredibly comforting at the same time. Getting something for my empty arms to hold made such a difference. I called the bear Henry and after mum died and DD was born my dad told me one day how he feels lonely in bed. Henry lives with dad now, so he has someone to cuddle in the night.

Love and :hug:

Bec

Reading the stories of pain and loss from everyone here just makes me want to cry (but I can't cause I'm at school!). I can't even imagine what it would be like to lose a child - losing a father was bad enough. But I hope it helps you to know BW, that there are so may people out there that can empathise with how you feel and that even if, like me, we haven't expereinced the same thing you have, we stil lfeel awful for you and wish you didn't have to feel the pain. I'm glad you have taken the time to cry and to shower. Maybe in a week or so when you feel a bit better a facial wouldn't go astray. I hope you can get some relief from the arthritis and that sleeping becomes easier. Still praying for you, hon. :hug:

Today I'm showered, dressed and fed already... all because I know DH is plotting to get me out of the house for a bit today, and it's going to be easier to do if I can just up and walk out without having to get ready when I need to go.

We talked a lot last night. It was hard as you can type through tears but you can't talk through them. In some ways, it helps to know that DH is hurting too. I had on "oh crap!" moment last night when I remembered that my maternal grandmother had problems with blood clots her whole life. I think dad's mother also had clotting problems... We're planning to visit the family in Newcastle on Saturday - I'll be quizzing the parents at length about the family medical history. Can anyone suggest things I should focus on? What are the important things to know there?

I've also started building a list of questions to ask the doctors. I have to know whether the spotting I got when I reduced the prednisone dose was relevant. I have to know whether the fact that as soon as I got pregnant sex became extremely painful is relevant.

DH made an appointment with Dr S for us yesterday. August 8th. I'm having a little difficulty explaining to him why I still think I need it when both my rheumy and my FS have stated that further auto-immune testing isn't necessary. He's also wondering why the current FS can't do the testing that I'm wanting Dr S to do... and when you put it in those terms, I'm starting to wonder what it's all about myself. I think DH would prefer to stick to just one FS, as he has the whole story, and it's getting a little long and complicated now. I can see his point... but why was it ok to get a second opinion from a urologist when the first said surgery and DH wasn't happy with that?

And then there's the random post-D&C questions... is it normal to still be bleeding now? It's only very lightly, and very thin and red. I still have some cramping, is that normal? How long until it's ok for us to have sex again? Not that I'm up for it, but I can see that DH is impatient for it... He's been so incredibly patient with all the spotting and pain while pregnant, and I think this is something he needs ASAP.

BW

Glad you are getting out and about. I cannot remember how long it was for the bleeding to stop I am sure it was a week or more. Give yourself time to grieve, it is all so natural to feel the way you do. Take Care and thinking of you.

:hug:

The only thing I would suggest is to write everything down and take it with you. when I went to the Dr post d&c I had no questions to ask.. I drew a complete blank..

As for the bleeding. I thnk I bled for 2 days after my first d&c after my 2nd I bled for 3 days but due to a complete stuff up they hadn't done it properly so I ended up miscarrying what was left 5 days later.. I had some cramps after my first.. just mild ones.. If I did to much they came on stronger..

BW, I'm sorry I don't have any advice to offer about the bleeding/DTD, but I did want to say how fantastic it is that you have taken the proactive step and booked in to see Dr. S. I don't know much about your history, but I truely believe that taking back the control over my body after losing Harry, and just doing what felt right to me was the absolute best thing to do. I may have offended Drs and Specialists, but I am the one who has to live with my choices. Our instinct is amazing, we just have to stop long enough to listen to it.

Big :hugs:

Lv Spring

OK - here is an attempt to answer your questions.

In some ways, it helps to know that DH is hurting too. Yep - they do hurt, and more than we often allow them. They also express it in different ways and get through by *doing*. And you both need to recognise you do it in different ways.

I had on "oh crap!" moment last night when I remembered that my maternal grandmother had problems with blood clots her whole life. Can anyone suggest things I should focus on? What are the important things to know there? If they had clots, find out where there clots were and when they had them. My Mum had a HUGE clot in the big vein in the thigh just after my sister was born - I *blame* her for my clotting disorder, even though she has not been tested. Just knowing that information will direct the testing (but generally, they will test for clotting disorders as part of a full workup)

I've also started building a list of questions to ask the doctors. I have to know whether the spotting I got when I reduced the prednisone dose was relevant. I have to know whether the fact that as soon as I got pregnant sex became extremely painful is relevant. All relevant and all these questions should be asked - WRITE THEM DOWN!!!!

DH made an appointment with Dr S for us yesterday. August 8th Excellent - the next step. Good work!!

I'm having a little difficulty explaining to him why I still think I need it when both my rheumy and my FS have stated that further auto-immune testing isn't necessary. He's also wondering why the current FS can't do the testing that I'm wanting Dr S to do... and when you put it in those terms, I'm starting to wonder what it's all about myself. Any *idiot* can do the testing, it is the interpretation of these results that are important. I had borderline insulin resistance on one of my tests which may have significantly impacted on my ability to lose weight pre-pregnancy and also flag me for GD when pregnant. I had GD. I lost weight pregnant. What you are after is not the tests, but the interpretation of the tests and Dr S is the specialist who looks at the tests for specific issues relating to auto-immune disorders.

I think DH would prefer to stick to just one FS, as he has the whole story, and it's getting a little long and complicated now. I can see his point... but why was it ok to get a second opinion from a urologist when the first said surgery and DH wasn't happy with that? Ask him that. Why is a second opinion ok for the urologist but not for the FS?? It is often distressing to go through the whole information again and he may not want you to be hurt any further by having to talk about everything all over again. It may be his way of protecting you from further hurt. You need the chance to get all the answers.

And then there's the random post-D&C questions... is it normal to still be bleeding now? It's only very lightly, and very thin and red. I still have some cramping, is that normal? Yep - normal. Should be like a light menstrual period (although some have no bleeding at all, or very minimal. Should be finished in a day or so. Worry if there is a foul smell, discoloured discharge but otherwise it is normal.

How long until it's ok for us to have sex again? Not that I'm up for it, but I can see that DH is impatient for it... He's been so incredibly patient with all the spotting and pain while pregnant, and I think this is something he needs ASAP. He may need it - but perhaps not in the usual way you would think. It is a way of being close, a different sort of close that is (IMO) soul restoring. No other person can get that close to you, to share the pain. It is hard to express how much you love that other person and how much they mean and to share how much you are hurting. I cried the first time after Caitlyn (and after my miscarriage). Warn him about that chance. As soon as the bleeding has stopped (basically now) and you are ready.

You have taken the first step forward - and you smell good too ;) Have a lovely day together and enjoy the sunshine. Small blessings make the world beautiful.

Good luck on the 8th BW! I'm glad you and DH had a talk. Keep talking as much as you can - someone told me when my father died that the more I talked about him the easier it would be (although hard talking through the tears at first). The more you can communicate with DH the better. :hug:

BW sweet girl.......I have been away for a while, and I am at work now so I can't really reply properly, but I just wanted to fling a lot of hugs your way. My heart is breaking for you, it really is.

(It was exactly 5 years today since I lost my first, so I can feel your pain, I really can.)

That said, your subsequent posts show the amazing stregth that will carry you forward. xx Lucy x

Great Post Michelle!

I second what was said there BW, ask about clots, about where they were, about (painful to discuss i know) early miscarriages, when and how. And write down the info so you have it with you. Have you been screened for Phospholipid Antibodies? You can ask your FS or Mr S for that i would think. Painful sex doesn't sound like the norm but increased blood flow can make the cervix tender and lots of women avoid sex in the 1st tri and never find out it hurts until it no longer hurts IYKWIM. Ask about that too.

Maybe you could compare this situation with the one about urologist/surgery with DH and point out to him that when it didn't sit right, he needed a 2nd opinion, and just now for you, this just isn't sitting right and you need to hear from Mr S before you can go on. I'm sure he'll understand with such a direct comparison hon, it's hard to think straight in al this pain, as i know you're aware :(

As for the sex, i would say if you feel ready and the bleeding isn't bothering you too much, then go for it whenever you like. Go gently with one another, i'm sure getting close like that will be a joy and a release for you both.

:hug: :hug: :hug:

Bec

xxx

Thank you Bec :redface:

BW, I am so glad you've made an appt with Dr S!!! That's a great step forward. Maybe try to explain to your DH that you aren't seeing him in his FS capacity, but as a reproductive immunologist - seeing them as two different types of drs might help him understand why it's important??

The friend I was telling you about had her epu yesterday with great results!! We are very hopeful that Dr S will get her there this time. We have to wait to get to blastocyst but there is much hope for her now when 8 weeks ago there was none!!

Today has been a good day.

I ate, I showered, dressed... and left the house. Spur of the moment thing - I decided that another second staring at the walls here would drive me stark raving mad so I left. I went to work for a little while.

It wasn't easy, but I did manage to do it. I even survived walking through the playground at lunch time... was hard trying to explain to one of my students that I'd be ok, and I'd be back next week. It was good to go in and face people and talk a little when I knew I could leave if it got too much. It was even good to go sit and chat with the deputy about what had happened - to be able to talk through it with someone who's not emotionally involved was helpful. They've just been brilliant. DH told the deputy on Monday, he told the people that needed to know... and my HOD took care of telling the people who were my friends that I'd told about the pregnancy. There's a few odd people who have probably slipped through, but I suspect they're intelligent enough to be able to figure it out. I guess the sad fact is that my school has been here before with another teacher - both the IVF and the loss, but at least they know how to be supportive.

Appointments have been arranged. I'll be back to the FS on the 1st of August, I'm relieved it's not a Monday. DH has arranged for us both to have a bowen therapy session tomorrow afternoon, and I think talking to the bowen therapist has done him the world of good. When he got home I asked him why second opinions were ok in the urology department and not here... The bowen therapist actually managed to explain to DH that it doesn't matter where this thought has come from, whether it's illogical or unfounded, women's intuition or just a plain gut feeling on my part - I'm not going to be able to relax unless it's ruled out. Bless her! Everything I was trying to get out through choked up tears last night has been explained to him calmly and logically and he gets it now. So DH is on the same page as me now - we pressure the current FS for testing, and if he won't, we get Dr S to do it.

I even managed to call my parents and talk to them both for a bit. We'll be heading up to see them on Saturday - just a quick day trip. I know it's going to be hard because mum's going to want to hug me, and my family doesn't really do hugs, and that will break me down... but I think it's important for us to do it sooner rather than later. I think a day out will be good for us both, a change of scenery will be nice, even if it does have a very smothering mother at the end of it. I think I can understand what she's thinking - her baby's hurting (yes, at 32 I'm still her baby!), and there's not a damn thing she can do, and she can't even understand the pain...

I'm resisting the temptation to think that one good day means it's going to be all good from here. Please smack me severely about the head if I start beating up on myself for having a rough day any time soon. I do feel good that I've made some sort of action towards finding out why our Caterpillar died, and preventing it happening again. It feels good to be able to shift the focus to the future a little, rather than dwelling on the might have beens.

Today I was blessed with a good day. Tomorrow may not be quite so good... but that will be ok.

BW