We homeschool for this very reason, because the public school system has failed us. I have studied early childhood and primary school teaching at university and knew the signs of giftedness and talent when they popped up.
Instead of being seen as gifted at school, my son (although on par with a gifted girl in his class) was seen as a trouble maker with behavioural problems. He is now 10 (year 5 level) with the ability to work at a year 7-8 level in a lot of areas (confirmed by the board of studies representative who assesses us). He was reading and writing before he started pre school. He is very mathematically and scientifically minded, and has shown a keen interest and understanding in computer programming.
My daughter is 7 and academically is also advanced in most areas, but falls behind in maths. She is much more creative than my son, writing lengthy stories, making elaborate artwork and has a keen interest in performing arts (she started ballet at 2, and tap dancing at 3.5)
My 2nd son has just turned 5 and has been computer literate since about 2.5 yo. He is mathematically bright and already has a solid understanding of basic fractions. He also understands different sums that have the same outcome. He is able to write all of our names without being told how they are spelled and has been able to count to 100 for about 2 years, by ones, twos and tens. He solves math problems in head, even ones his sister can't do.
My 3rd son is almost 3 and also started TTing at 16 months. He has amazing hand eye co-ordination, and can play many video games that I can't even complete!! He has a very extensive vocabulary and tells great stories. He has wonderful recollection skills and can tell you something that he told you 6 months ago, exactly the same way. He is an amazing swimmer - he was put up to a 4 year old level at just under 2 years old.
My 2nd daughter is not yet 9 moths old, but already shows signs of early swimming and is trying to stand and walk (but I attribute that to her wanting to keep up with her older siblings!) At this age, I'm not really looking for signs from her.
Socially, we meet with other home schooling families, where they kids don't feel the need to be anything other than themselves (nobody hassles anybody else for being smart etc) and we do extra curricular activities such as swimming and dance, and we are looking to start music classes too.
I think the most important thing is to encourage your child/ren in the areas that they show interest in, not just try to "make them" reach their full potential. As Kaz said, they can easily become distracted, or find things difficult, if the interest isn't there. I avoid specialists and experts and follow my instinct and my kid's lead, cause I don't want them to end up like me - at age 4, I was tested and deemed to have the IQ and capabilities commensurate with a 14 year old. I was pushed (not encouraged - there is a difference!) and had finished primary school (per se) by 5th grade, but skipping grades was relatively unheard of back then, so I spent alot of time doing teacher's assistant things (leading reading/math groups etc) until I was tested and accepted into a selective high school, by which time I'd simply given up and taken the attitude that it was easier to do nothing and come last than compete with 149 other kids to come first!
Kaz , some great info thanks so much , I discussed with the pead about DD having a sensory processsing disorder ( in sensory seeking ) as im aware that SPD and giftedness can go hand in hand , he talked about autisim and SPD in the one conversation saying its better to test at around age 4 , so im guessing he was talking about autisim as its in my family . As i know there is testing for youngsters who are gifted . i dont know what he was going on about really , hes a good pead to the point where he does alot of background work and comes up with the answer , but then refers us to the professional rather than treating her himself .
We are seeing a physc next month and im nervous and kind of curious to know what lies ahead . I have my a4 page of questions already , i just have so much to ask .
hopefully he can give us an answer on the SPD side of things to , as time goes on its getting worse .
argh i just wish all you ladies were face to face so i can explain this all better !!
Dh is very smart , and has always done well in school , and i can relate to your 7 year old DD , mountain mummy where i fell behind badly in math , and still do , yet im am very creative . DD is so advanced in her talking / motor skills but i find when she looks at a book or letters or numbers , she gets very confused and mostly points to the incorrect one . BUT ask her to say the ABCs , count , name shapes/objects and say her and her brothers birthdate , she can . so traits that have been mentioned about being good in one area and not so in the other are starting to show up.
sometimes i have to remind myself she is nearly 3 not 7 lol and that just because shes gifted she wont know everything ... I guess its more my emotions im trying to get a hold of ... everyone knows that DD is smart/above average . I just dont want the pressure of having her to perfom for others . at family parties etc , every one crowds around her and gets her to say or do things like she is some monkey , i dont want people isolating her from other kids just coz shes different, id prefer her to play and run around and hide under the table with a bowl of lollies like the other kids .... but then on the other hand if she is playing with the other kids she cant understand why they are not following her "rules" lol ..
does any of that make sense .... im just writing my thoughts here . the almost 3 years shes been on this earth has been a wild ride and its all just coming together ... its going to take me a while to get the hang of understanding her mind ...
Lea hun, it is great news that you know about it already. Believe me, it makes a huge difference. Many people you come across will think of gifted as "smart", but actually there is a lot more to it than that. DS1 was tested at 4 and his IQ put him in the exceptionally gifted range, and DS2 hasn't been tested yet but now we know what we are looking for we are pretty sure he will be identified as gifted too even though he is very different to DS1. So I am speaking from experience and I can honestly say that if I come across one more teacher or guidance officer in a school that calls him a "smart kiddie" instead of getting to know him and all his traits I may well hit them - and I'm not a violent person!!
As DD's parents, you guys already know more about giftedness than many of the educators you will come across - and it will be your role to advocate. And as with most things as a parent of a gifted child, this won't be easy. Giftedness is a special need like many other special needs - but this is one of the least understood special needs. My first piece of advice is to make sure you have her IQ tested by a psych who specialises in gifted children (I can give you some names), early-middle of the year before she starts school. The "piece of paper" has helped us get further with the school than anything else - although luckily DS's teacher last year got to know him very well and advocated well for us also, allowing DS to be grade skipped which is the best thing that has ever happened for him. This year the paper is the only thing his teacher has taken any notice of
There are also some great things to read, and join, and I will PM you some references for this.
Lea, you are on a very challenging and rewarding journey with your DD. It is certainly going to have it's moments!! But knowing you as I do, I know you will take it all in your stride and do a fantastic job for your DD. Please let me know if you want to talk further. I haven't seen you in ages and it could be a good excuse to get together!
Everyone has raised some great points. It goes to show that raising any kid is hard, those with a special need give us even more challenges!! A couple of things I have to add:
A happy child is the most important thing. But this doesn't mean that you leave things be and not advocate for intervention of some sort. We all gain confidence and self-esteem by achieving things that are challenging. To do something we have to work at, or didn't think we could do is really important. Many gifted children need a differentiated learning environment so that they have this opportunity. When school is really easy it can lead to boredom, disruptive behaviour and an inability to apply themselves to a task as others have mentioned. It can also destroy self-confidence because they never get that feeling of achievement and self-satisfaction.
Likewise, friendships and connections are vital. Everyone needs to feel like they belong. A gifted child in the wrong setting does not feel like they belong. DS is a classic example. He was walking and talking by 9 months, and had taught himself to read the alphabet and some words by the time DS2 was born (DS1 was 19 months). When DS1 was 10 months, the 14 - 16 month kids at day care got moved to the toddler room. They had been DS1's friends as he was verbally and socially at their level. He was devastated when they were moved and he was left with the babies. He used to just sit at the door to the toddler room all day and pine. When they had a vacancy in there - sick child etc - they would let him spend the day in there. From this time on, DS1 never "fit in". He would be great in a day care room when he was first moved up, and within 2 months he would monster child. Kindy was a horror year. He was so unhappy and had no friends. He would tell me that he didn't want to play with the other kids because they said and did silly things, and didn't want to do what he did. Prep was much the same, the only difference being a teacher who recognised that he needed to be in the more structured environment of year 1 and was in his element with older kids. He was able to do 4 hours a week in the year 1 classroom that he loved, but then he'd have to go back to prep and he'd be sad again. Finally the school relented and he was moved to year 1 during term 4 last year, and is now in year 2 this year. And what a difference it has made. We now have a very happy and confident child. And he has friends. It is amazing - I can't quite believe that this is the same child that we were having assessed for ASD and ADD and who was unhappy and unco-operative. Even the staff members at the school who were most against the grade skip have commented frequently about how much happier and confident he is and how we totally did the right thing (some days I really want to say "I told you so" ). I put the difference in him down to a few things - more challenge, more suitable environment etc, but mostly due to the fact that he has finally found a connection with the kids around him. He belongs. He is understood. He is not so different (still a little different but it's not so obvious or extreme).
So it is not always pushing or putting academics first to advocate for extension, or acceleration, or intervention of whatever sort is appropriate for your child. It is sometimes, maybe often, necessary. Just like any other special need, you need to meet the need.
I recall when I was in primary school, I was often pulled out of school for a few months to go travelling with my parents and was homeschooled. My mother constantly complained that we only did 2 hours schoolwork a day, Mon-Fri, and even then not all the time (sometimes we went out and saw the world!). I went back to school twice as far ahead as I should have been. My mother always made a point of telling me how little I did at school.
Well, yeah. At school we also did painting and I used to help other children who needed it (at the teacher's direction). It wasn't all academics. History at school (for example) was not a day out at the temples in Athens, it was book-stuff: we learnt the legends behind the temples, which I had to do on my own when we got back to England because my mother couldn't tell me them. Geography was also geology, not just marking on a map where we'd been. I also read less at school, because there were other things I had to do, like sports. My mother never understood that (and I was too scared to argue with her). She also wouldn't let the school move me up a year, so what, exactly, should I have been doing at school?
MR that is the most awesome set of posts ever! I agree totally with everything you've written (even though I don't have experience as a parent I do have some professional experience in this general field - but by no means an expert or anything).
Charmalea - it's great you have your questions ready. Keep adding to it as you think of them. The psych should be expecting it and shouldn't bat an eyelid when you pull them out. I totally agree with MR about getting an assessment from an appropriately qualified and experienced psych in this field. Also, you might want to ask about strategies for some of the social situations and concerns you have described (if you don't already). You might find attending a few sessions with the specialist psych just yourself to get some stratgies for dealing with people's reactions, for how to advocate for your DD, for how to educate people to look at the whole child like MR and others have said and verbally walking you through the education system in your state (as it relates to giftedness) and so on might be invaluable.
This may fly off on a tangent and I apologise for that, but where do you begin with your children? I mean.... you know they are smart/talented.... when do you decide that you should seek further assistance and where do you go for this?
I've always known DS to be intelligent. He's got the most amazing memory and recall. He has been doing simple addition and subtraction since he was 3, alphabet by 16 months, rather large vocab from early on... etc etc etc. I was a very bright child myself and I feel failed in a way as it was never really explored. I was completing year 8 maths in Grade 5, we were taken out of our general classes in grades 5 and 6 to have 'advanced' classes, but it wasn't something that was ever really followed much. I hit year 8 and out of boredom I started acting out, became the class clown and although pretty darn smart, never ever applied myself. I could be anything right now and I have no real qualifications, I cannot motivate myself in anyway because I get bored very easily regardless of what I am doing. I do not want my children to waste any opportunities like I have with my entire life.
My DS attends 3yo Kinder one day a week. From early on his lack of concentration was mentioned (he cannot possibly sit and concentrate on something for longer than 5 minutes because it becomes too boring for him), but also his intelligence with numbers and letters. Apparently (and I thought he was just average when it came to these things) he is very advanced compared to even preppies?? No idea. I'd be interested in finding out how to help nurture this intelligence and encourage him academically, but I'm all for him having a 'normal' childhood aswell.
Maybe I'm just a proud Mummy who thinks her children are smart because really... we all do in some way don't we.
Niadalla, I don't know if that's such an easy question. I think for many parents they "start" because there is something wrong - many gifted kids have ASD traits, and/or ADD traits, some have physical things going on - for example many gifted kids have low muscle tone - (as do many ASD kids) and this makes sitting still really hard for them - there are the behaviours that go along with being bored/frustrated/sad because they feel different and don't know why and can't connect with their peers, and with lack of mental stimulation etc - defiance, acting out, hitting out for some and more. So I think for many of us it's the other things going on because of the giftedness that starts us on the path of finding out what is going on. Many parents will know that they looking for giftedness when they start, others, like us, start out looking for a reason for the behaviour and not knowing what they will find. That is not to say all gifted kids have other things going on. And often, particularly with younger siblings of gifted kids, the giftedness is not picked up until much later, or even at all.
I think that if there are signs that a child is gifted and that the child needs more than they are getting, or will need more, then seeing a psychologist who specialises in identifying gifted kids would be a good start (not cheap though!). I wouldn't necessarily start with a full assessment (really, really expensive!), but a consultation would give you an idea at least. If your child seems really smart, but is happy and doesn't have anything else going on that is a sign that things aren't quite "right", then I probably wouldn't do anything until they are nearly at school at least. Then I'm not sure - either a test so you know one way or the other, or see how the child goes at school. There are some questionnaires around the place that parents can answer to see if it is likely, and sites like the QAGTC have lists of signs that are common in gifted kids and that can be helpful too.
In your case, there do sound like some signs. The large vocab can be a sign, the early maths ability is also a sign. Family history is usually pretty strong too (although many parents of gifted kids were never as identified as gifted because it really wasn't understood well and was rarely identified when we were kids, looking back often parents can see the signs in themselves). The lack of concentration is a sign, and the not sitting still sounds like it could be from lack of concentration or also from low muscle tone which as I said does seem to be more common in gifted kids. Another really big clue for parents is what they are hearing from others - kindy teachers generally recognise "difference", and also what your friends say - other parents also recognise when kids are advanced in some way. As you say, with your first child, your benchmark about what kids do at an age is what your child is doing. So listening to others when they say "that's not what kids this age do" is helpful.
I guess your next step is to decide whether he needs more now, or whether he seems happy now, but it's something to keep an eye on when he starts school. Also, if you suspect the low muscle tone and want to look into that further, a physiotherapist can do an assessment.
Thanks so much. The Kinder teacher is constantly mentioning his math ability and his number skills, and that he is improving behaviour wise weekly. I have actually been worried for about 2 years that DS might have sensory perception disorder.... he has MANY quirks. I've often thought about getting him checked out, but have been so busy with life in general (and he's a happy, healthy, intelligent little man, so no real red flags were waving).
I might talk to the MCHN and see if she thinks it's worth persuing at the moment or waiting until he's in school.
So far I don't have any gifted kids, just difficult ones BUT my cousin was/is gifted.
He never really attended school because they weren't teaching him the stuff he needed to be taught... eg - he was doing year 7 maths at 7 years old.
The only school my aunt tried though, was a private school (TAS in Armidale). She pulled him out after about 3 months & home schooled him for the rest of his schooling years (which she did the wrong way!)
He was on the front page of the Sunday Telegraph as one of the highest IQ's on Aust at about 10 I think.
He was also ADHD. The biggest thing for him was boredom. The need for constant stimulation & needing to be challenged... pulling apart old computers etc & putting them back together was a fave past time through his early teen years.
I can't tell you about services though... he was never lucky enough to have recieved outside help. His mother is a bit odd
MR - Spot on, as usual Your advice is always so balanced. Great social skills can only enhance our other skills (academic, creative etc) and life enjoyment.
FWIW - Every childcare/kindy/school is different. They all manage giftedness in different ways, and can vary greatly from year level and classroom and teacher to teacher. As a teacher, I know we tend to deal with the disruptive aspects much more quickly (and much better) than the boredom/giftedness. I also know that logistically it can be difficult to cater for children's varying needs.... but it can be done! In my year 4 reading program, I used readers from a pre-prep to a beyond year 8 level, all at the same time, in one classroom. Although our school has a great 'enrichment' program, it tries to fit too many students in (it's great pr) and so works at too low a level for the more gifted ones! And I've had teachers in the following year level refuse to let a gifted student join their class for a maths lesson due to overcrowding/behaviour problems, which, although frustrating, was well within their rights. I've also had gifted students removed from my class for enrichment in say, maths, during our class reading time, which was a weakness. On the positive side, I've seen several students skip a grade and many more well catered to by addressing their weaknesses as well as fostering their strengths - that's what any educator worth their salt does all day every day. We have year levels that 'stream' their students for literacy and numeracy so that students can learn more effectively at the level they need to. What I'm saying is, 'shop around', start early as it might take a while, but don't give up on finding somewhere for your child.
Hope you don't mind me butting in... I just saw this thread and wanted to share some info I came across by Louise Porter. I'm a massive Porter fan and she does a lot of work regarding gifted children.
I also organised a phone consult with her via skype last week to discuss my own son (autism) and it was great. Just wanted to let you know if you're interested in asking her some questions because it was $75, so cheap compared to some psychs and she has opinions I really value.
wow this thread is gaining more people every time i pop in to post !!
all the links and posts are sooo helpful !
Niadalla , If you think your child is gifted do some reasearch and get an appt with a pead . I had an inkling that DD was gifted so i listed all her behaviours ( some gifted behavoirs and some not ) and with out even mentioning the word gifted the pead pulled up an IQ scale and told me about DD and where she sits and why , he didnt talk about reading or writing or profound gifts like piano playing etc , he spoke about the behaviour side of things , and how hard it can be . which helped as DD can not read ( that i know of ) the only word ive seen her read/remember is Kookaburra. so it wasnt in my best intrests to know about that side of things just yet . If your child is happy and progressing well than there is no need to push for testing at the moment. there is also a difference between Bright and gifted .
Having a sensory processing disorder in sensory seeking was what brought me to the pead , so yes maybe bring it to the attn of the MCHN . and see a pead . Im glad ive met this gitftedness early as i can provide better as i learn more .
MR .. yes we must meet ! everything you have wrote has struck a cord with all that ive learnt about giftedness ESP the part about low muscle tone and the inability to not sit still , the behaviours like defiance and rough play and hitting .. all fits with DD . I will PM you in a sec .
thanks Ladies its so good to talk about this its really helping . xx
oh and these kids definatley have their quirks !! currently DD is playing air gitar with a old numberplate , she has already put my passport in the blender to "chop it up " so i cant leave on a plane ... and thats only in the last hour lol !
Gotta love the quirks Lea!! I have rather a lot of stories that I can use for his 21st but I'm not sure I'll still be sane by then!! One of DS's quirks is that he never, ever, ever stops talking (unless he's reading and then he tells us that we aren't allowed to talk to him). It takes forever to get him to eat a meal because he keeps talking. Trying to get him to stop talking long enough to clean his teeth is a daily challenge. Sometimes when I tuck him in before I go to bed he will stir and start talking away in his sleep. His teachers all mention his talking as well - I tell them that we know all about it!
wow ... all that talking would do my head in !! but they have so much in their little heads i guess its got to come out . !!
Im really struggeling (sp?) with her quirks ... one of them in particular .... water .... if you give her a cup of water with a meal . she wont drink it but tip it in the water ,then tip the water in various places around the house ( i may have mentioned it before ) yesterday a 750 ml drinkbottle with a pop top lid went all over the leather lounge. and it was also coated with youghurt . ive gone back to no spill sippy cups so she cant tip water everywhere ... as its darn annoying mopping up water all day , but also a hazard !!
I cant wait to find out more next week at the phsyc. i must admit .... its getting harder each day !!
argh !! i wish i could bury my head in the sand ...
thanks kaz ! today is the day !! I have no help from my mum or hubby today . i begged them both to take DS so i could go alone .. taking both kids out with me always makes me stressed. having just DD at the physc would have helped my head space about this all a bit clearer !
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BUT my cousin was/is gifted.
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