thread: Speech - Milestones?

  1. #1

    Jul 2009
    Out North, Vic
    8,538

    Question Speech - Milestones?

    I don't think DD2 is GIFTED but after reading a story on gifted children it got me wondering about her speech.
    We get quite a few comments from people about how well DD2 talks, we have always put it down to the fact that she has an older sister and she has to compete with her and I

    At 12mths she had over 10 clear words, the health nurse commented that this was quite good as most children would have 5 max if any at that age.

    She's 17mths and has a vocabulary of probably close to 100 words (if not more) and is increasing every day, she will hear a word for the first time and repeat it quite clearly.
    My favorite at the moment is library
    She is putting together 3,4 & 5 word sentences that are understandable.
    She will talk on the phone and say Hello Nanny, It's Zara

    Where is the cat, What are you doing, wheres daddy gone. etc etc

    I thought however i would check ROUGHLY the milestones for speech for her age and came across this:

    Language Developmental Milestones

    At three months, a child:

    * Makes cooing and gurgling sounds

    At six months, a child:

    * Babbles and makes sing-song sounds

    At twelve months, a child:

    * Babbles, but with inflection, which sounds like talking
    * Says first word

    At eighteen months, a child:

    * Says 8-10 words others can understand
    * Has vocabulary of about 5 to 40 words, mostly nouns
    * Repeats words heard in conversation
    * Uses “hi,” “bye,” and “please” when reminded

    At two years, a child:

    * Has a vocabulary of 150 to 300 words
    * Uses 2-3 word sentences, usually in noun-verb combinations, such as "Dog bark," but also using inflection with combinations like "More cookie?"
    * Refers to self by name and uses “me” and “mine”

    At three years, a child:

    * Uses 3-5 word sentences
    * Asks short questions, usually using "what" or "where."
    * Has a vocabulary of about 900-1000 words

    At four years, a child:

    * Has a vocabulary of about 1,500 to 2,500 words
    * Uses sentences of 5 or more words

    At five years, a child:

    * Identifies some letters of the alphabet
    * Uses 6 words in a sentence
    * Uses “and,” “but,” and “then” to make longer sentence

    By age six, a child's language begins to sound like adult speech, including the use of complex sentences, with words like "when," for example. However, children tend not to use sentences with "although" and "even though" until about age 10.

    Advanced Language Development
    Early Talking
    Gifted children tend to begin talking early. While most children say their first word at around one year of age, gifted children may begin speaking when they are nine months old. Some parents report that their children said their first word even earlier than that, as early as six months of age.

    Some parents have even reported that their children tried very hard to form words at three months! However, most babies are simply not physically developed sufficiently to control their mouths, tongue, and lips well enough to make the speech sounds they need. They may purse their lips and nearly turn blue with the effort and then become quite frustrated when they can't make the sounds they want to make.

    Teaching babies sign language is a good way to help these children express themselves without vocalization.

    It's important to note that not all gifted children speak early. In fact, some gifted children are late talkers, not talking until they are two years old or even older. When they do speak, however, they sometimes skip over the stages of language development and may begin speaking in full sentences. While early talking is a sign of giftedness, not speaking early is not an indication that a child is not gifted.

    Advanced Vocabulary
    An advanced vocabulary can mean two different things. It can mean the number of words a child uses and it can mean the types of words a child uses.

    While a non-gifted child may have a vocabulary of 150-300 words at age two, gifted children may have surpassed the 100 word mark by the time they are eighteen months old. At eighteen months, most children have a vocabulary of from five to twenty words, although some do reach the fifty-word milestone by the time they are two years old. In their second year, most children increase their vocabulary to up to 300 words. Gifted children, however, will have a larger working vocabulary, approaching that of a four year old or even older children.

    The other type of advanced vocabulary refers to the types of words a child has in his or her vocabulary. Typically, the first words a child learns will be nouns: mama, daddy, dog, ball, bird, etc. After that, simple verbs are added, for example, want, go, see, give. Gifted children, however, will be adding connecting words, such as and or even because. By age three, gifted children might also have added transitional words, such as however or multisyllabic words like appropriate.

    Sentence Structures
    A typical two-year old can construct sentences of two or three words, often without a verb. For example, a child might say, "There cat" for "There is a cat." A gifted child, however, will often be able to speak in fuller sentences at age two and by age three, their language may already resemble adult speech. They are able to use time markers, like now, later, first, and then, which, along with their advanced vocabulary and more complete sentences, allow them to carry on full conversations with adults.

    Although most gifted children have this kind of advanced language development, its absence does not mean a child is not gifted. The range of normal language development is also as widely variable in gifted children as it is in the non-gifted population. These descriptions of what might be typical in a gifted child are meant to help parents understand what advanced language ability looks like.
    According to this she is making sentences and talking like a 2-3yr old, she has also started using her sisters wooden puzzles and slotting things in where they are supposed to go.

    If we pull up at the library she says "look library" and sings along with the songs she's learnt there like "row row row your boat" and doing the actions.

    So i by no means think she is GIFTED but found this 'guide' quite interesting and was wondering

    A: is this an accurate guide
    B: she gets bored quite easily, what else can i do aside from reading, singing and craft to help her learn if that's what she needs?

    I have a MCHN appt for her later this month so will see what the MCHN says about her speech but though this guide was quite interesting.

  2. #2
    Registered User

    Jan 2006
    8,369

    PMSL - my 4yo is well advanced then, his speech is child-like but he gives long complex sentences and has a fairly full vocabulary. Haven't counted his words since just before his second birthday - over 200 words and 5-6 word sentences. At about 18m he was at the 2-3yo stage too. He's bright but not in the gifted league at all.

    A gifted child will learn no matter what. Can you encourage other skills? Drawing is a great skill, but maybe you could encourage walking to the park, climbing, dancing, playing drums/piano... things outside her area of success, basically.

  3. #3

    Jul 2009
    Out North, Vic
    8,538

    Thanks hun, we live on a property out of town so can't really encourage walking to the park but we encourage her to go outside and explore, we open the door to the kids area and let them go at it, ask her to go to the slide or the trampoline etc or to go on the bike and she does those things.

    She loves dancing, we put on her CD player in her room and she dances around like a maniac

    She loves doing craft with her sister, and we do that quite regularly so will see how we go.

    She loves being outside and riding the motorbikes with us, knows how to turn the key on and tries to rev it.
    Maybe were doing enough as it is, i don't think she's gifted, maybe she just has more opportunity than other kids her age to do different things...
    I just find it interesting watching the differences in other kids her age, DD1 also talks quite well for a 2.5yr old, has memorised songs and matching dances and speaks better than some 5yr old i know... maybe i just breed chatter boxes

  4. #4
    Registered User

    Jun 2005
    USA
    3,991

    I don't think it's really just about opportunities. Is that why children are delayed? Because their parents didn't give them opportunities?

    Anyway, I think she sounds very advanced which is pretty exciting really If you'd like to look more into gifted children just to have an idea at this point of where to go "just in case" then I'd suggest looking up Louise Porter. I'm a HUGE Porter fan and she's written a lot on gifted children. Personally, if she says something then I'd do it I'm not sure if advocates distracting your child away from their strong skills or not- could be worth seeing what she says.

  5. #5

    Jul 2009
    Out North, Vic
    8,538

    I don't think it's really just about opportunities. Is that why children are delayed? Because their parents didn't give them opportunities?
    Sorry i didn't mean in a bad way, i meant she has an older sister who talks quite well for her age and a mother who could talk under water with a mouthful of cement

    Thanks for the information, i might have a chat with the MCHN and see if she's still suitably impressed with her vocab as she was at 12mths, maybe it's all in my head...

    Oh i must say thought this morning her new word is WHY ? so i asked her to do something and she said "WHY" and i recounted, then she asked me something i said Why and she said "because"

  6. #6
    Registered User

    Jan 2009
    In my own little fantasy world
    2,946

    The description for 2-3 yo's fits my DS perfectly. He was 2 in feb.

    Your DD does sound quite advanced. Makes it easier to work out what they want

  7. #7
    BellyBelly Member
    Add Yeddi on Facebook

    Aug 2010
    In a library somewhere...
    788

    It could simply be about motivation and modelling, or, yes, language could be her strength which will make it easier for her to do well in language based education.

    To be honest, I personally don't like that word "gifted" (not directed at you ZF, I'm just talking about the common terminology and attitude). It's an idea that came out of the enlightenment and was used to replace rank based on birth - instead it was now based on subjective and/or standardized testing. I find it has an edge of snobbery to it and implies the idea that a person who can score high on a restrictive IQ test is something more, when what they really have is just a particular strength in that area. I've seen people who might not score high on an IQ test but can make the most amazing things with their hands, and that's their particular strength, and I don't see them as any less "gifted" or as being simple. I know that my DH has done the menser test on two occasions. The first time he answered it the way he knew they wanted it answered and got 161. The next time he answered according to his natural inclination and got 75. So depending upon how he approached the test he was either only five points above the line of mental disability or a genius. Also, there have been a couple of times with uni were I've run out of time because of things going on in life and I've had to hand in essays despite not having read the book or any of the source material with simply the intention of "if I hand something in, I should still pass". Each time, I've got HD's, while those who have actually done the course work (and in essence really do know what they are talking about more than me) have scored less. This doesn't give me a lot of confidence in grades as a sign of knowledge. Anyway, getting to the point. You don't need a test to tell you she is gifted or label, you don't need to seek the approval of others (by them being impressed) or anything else that puts undue pressure on your DD to perform. You KNOW she has a strength in this area, and it is good to encourage this and allow her to flex that muscle, but I can guarantee she will have weaknesses too and she needs to learn that those are okay just as much as having strengths.

  8. #8

    Jul 2009
    Out North, Vic
    8,538

    Thank you Yeddi.

    I by no means want to label her, i don't think she is 'gifted' as they put it but it did make me think about her speech and i think it will definitely be one of her strengths.
    I'm not planning on testing her and i'm not after recognition or approval from my MCHN i should probably word my responses a little better, i get excited or involved in something and tend to just write whatever pops out and not realise the context of which it could appear.

    I will just continue to let her explore and learn as any other 17mth old would and see how she goes, givgin her every opportunity to grow and learn within her means (whatever they may be)

    Thanks everyone, i didn't mean to just make this thread about DD, like i said i get kind of excited and go off on a tangent of my own, it was also to highlight the chart and whether or not these would be accurate descriptions of milestones

  9. #9
    Registered User

    Feb 2008
    Country Victoria
    5,945

    Its an interesting subject. According to that DD is at the level of a 5 year old and she is 2yrs 8months. Ive never looked too much into it. I am finding it hard to keep her learning new things as she seems to be teaching ME things! lol.

  10. #10

    Jul 2009
    Out North, Vic
    8,538

    Its an interesting subject. According to that DD is at the level of a 5 year old and she is 2yrs 8months. Ive never looked too much into it. I am finding it hard to keep her learning new things as she seems to be teaching ME things! lol.
    You know i hadn't even thought about looking at DD1 on there, she is a mix of a few, she uses words like THEN, AND and BUT to extend her sentences and things but i'm not sure she'd have that many words in her vocabulary - she would use about 6 words in a sentence.
    She does it to mum talking on the phone: nanny we went on the motorbike, then in the mud and .................

    MM - it's kind of sad when our children teach us things isn't it

  11. #11
    Registered User

    Mar 2007
    6,900

    Hmm... no I don't think that's very accurate ZF. Well unless my DD is 'gifted' lol. And I just see her as a normal little girl although I do think she's pretty clever, but I'm her mum

    She's 2yrs 3months and according to that she's talking like a 4-5 yr old already. She can have a conversation with someone. She talks in full sentences and uses 'and' 'but' 'because' 'when' etc. She can sing all the nursery rhymes I can think of and some I don't know that she must have got from playschool or something.

    But I also know other kids her age doing the same things. So while she appears to be a clever little cookie I wouldn't say she's gifted or anything. I don't agree with that article, for my DD anyway.

  12. #12
    Registered User

    Feb 2009
    Brisbane
    1,070

    I always thought DS1 was slow to start talking but according to your info he has always been exactly where he should be for his age, possibly ahead now he is 4.

    DS2 has been speaking in sentences for ages now. Was saying things like "look mummy, it is a brachiosaurus" or " Come on Byron, lets jump on the trampoline" well before he turned 2. Repeats anything that you ask him to say without a problem, sings whole songs which are clearly recognisable by their tune too. I also put it down to having his older brother talking to him constantly. I guess it will be interesting to see if there is a difference between the 2 of them at school and later in life. Personally I don't think DS2 is brighter than DS1, he just speaks better and because it is such an obvious skill it makes him seem brighter.

  13. #13
    Registered User

    Dec 2006
    In my own private paradise
    15,272

    maybe i just breed chatter boxes
    i meant she has an older sister who talks quite well for her age and a mother who could talk under water with a mouthful of cement
    yes, you breed chatterboxes - just like their Mum - and yes, you could talk under water with a mouth full of marbles - but that's not (always lol) a bad thing - it's a strength in all three of you! it may mean your girls are "destined" to work in fields later in life that appeal to those strengths - fields that rely on communication etc.


    MM - it's kind of sad when our children teach us things isn't it
    i don't think that's sad at all! i think it's an awesome thing that our kids can help us to learn new things. i think as we grow older and our focus shifts to work or general living things, we do tend to forget so much of what we learnt as children - it's fantastic to be able to re-discover those things with our children! For one thing, most of us grown ups are pretty jaded about aspects of our lives - to be able to rediscover and embrace the simple things from childhood is amazing. I am loving going back to basics with DD! if your girls teaching you how to be young again helps you all (them with their ability to communicate, you with embracing the inner child again), how can it possibly be sad?? i think the only sad thing is to pass up that opportunity because it may not come around again til your kids have kids - and it's not the same..

  14. #14
    Registered User

    Apr 2008
    Melbourne
    6,745

    My DD2 is the same age as Heaven's DD1 and she speaks in 12 word sentences, can sing entire songs (including ABC, Do-a-deer and Spoonful of Sugar) and can have an entire conversation with people. She also memorises books after 1 or 2 readings. I have put this down to her wanting to be like her sister and really pushing herself to be understood.

  15. #15

    Jul 2009
    Out North, Vic
    8,538

    My DD2 is the same age as Heaven's DD1 and she speaks in 12 word sentences, can sing entire songs (including ABC, Do-a-deer and Spoonful of Sugar) and can have an entire conversation with people. She also memorises books after 1 or 2 readings. I have put this down to her wanting to be like her sister and really pushing herself to be understood.
    She's gorgeous hun and very smart i assumed she was closer to A's age when they were catching up together

  16. #16
    BellyBelly Member
    Add Yeddi on Facebook

    Aug 2010
    In a library somewhere...
    788

    That's most probably a very good point Berrme. Boys are generally slower to talk than girls, I don't think this slowness of language development in comparison reflects on their intelligence any more than girls having smaller sized brains makes them less intelligent than boys. The idea of intelligence can be such a subjective thing. Einstein for instance, didn't start talking until he was 3. I think most people would agree that him being slow of speech didn't make him slow of mind.

    I think you make a good point Nai, motivation to communicate plays a big factor.