6 months and still no end in sight.

[MrsFabuloso]

Tell me more about this Tresillian thingie.....

If anyone can give me more specifics on HOW they taught their babies to self soothe I'd be very grateful. I didn't want to do this, I wanted to be a gentle parent, but during the day, after no sleep.. I am NOT gentle. I'm a sobbing, hysterical mess and I can barely manage to smile at my baby let alone play with him. He will be better off suffering just a little bit through some firm handed parenting now, than having a zombie for a mother. Failure, thy name is Forshelby.

I'm not Black Rose, but can tell you a little about tressilian. It is similar to Karitane (if you know what that is!). They are both sleep 'schools'. They both use methods of CC, to help families with getting kids into sleep routines. They have residential programmes where you can go and stay for a few nights-a week or two (I think!) or they have day stays where you can go and learn to sooth your LO with the help of professionals taught in their methods.
Do not feel bad about trying to learn how to be a better parent. You need to be happy too. I know the trauma and torture of not sleeping and it's so not pretty. It can cause depression and rifts in relationships. You are doing what you need to to be a better mother and to become the persona nd parent you want to be.

[sahbear]

just wanted to suggest a sleep school, probably has been mentioned but I havent had time to read all of the replies. I know a couple of people who it has really helped.

You are NOT bad mother. It saddens me to hear this.

Please call your CHN and get some assistance - i know here, a girl in my mothers group was able to get some assistance from the local sleep whisperer really quickly after the referral from the CHN.

[sloane]

i don't really have much practical help because my DS didn't stop waking 45m-2hrly overnight until he was 18 months old! but i did want to reinforce that how your child sleeps is not a reflection on your success or failure as a parent - it's the luck of the draw. you are NOT a failure, you're just unlucky.

day sleeps here didn't improve until DS was 6 months - until then i was holding him for a lot of naps....so i'd nap with him or read a mag/book whilst he slept. my DS sounds similar to yours in that i don't think CC or CIO would have worked because he could cry...and cry...and cry with no stopping. co-sleeping in various forms worked for us & these days it's him sleeping in between DP & i. during the night he does still wake/half wake but being able to reach out & touch us & know we're there comforts him & he goes back to sleep. that didn't work until recently though (he's 2) & until that point, i would feed/cuddle depending on where we were at.

people gave me lots of advice - that he'd sleep better once on solids (nup), he'd sleep better once he could crawl (nope)...he'd sleep better once he could walk (still no). ultimately the only thing that worked for us was time. if that's where you find yourself, the main thing you need to do is take any opportunity you can to rest. i made lots of excuses why i couldn't rest/sleep but ultimately, i could. you also need to take time for yourself & have a break.

i hope you can find something that works for you soon.

[HotI]

Similar to Sloane, time was the thing that worked here too. I never tried a sleep school, but understand people trying their methods. I always found bit more energy to keep going each time i thought i was at the end. If you think you are getting to the end of your energy reserves though, maybe it is time to seek help/support from friends, family or professionals.

take care,

[MrsFabuloso]

Tried PMing you but your inbox is full, but here is some info I found for you


Hi hun,
I thought I might have a quick look for you in case you were busy with bub (I am lucky enough to have 2 of mine asleep...rarely happens in this house!). After a very quick google I found this info for you, not sure where on the GC you are, but there are a couple of choices for you to look at:

QUEENSLAND

Ellen Barron Family Centre
•Rode Road, CHERMSIDE QLD 4032
•Phone: (07) 3139 6500
•Fax: (07) 3139 6555
•Website: www DOT health.qld.gov.au/rch/families/cchs_rsp.asp

The Ellen Barron centre is run by QLD Health. Its a free service, but you need to have a referral from your GP or MCHN and there's a waiting list.
You also usually need to have some history of taking your bub to the child health clinic in an attempt to resolve the issue with them before you can get a place.
Once you get in you stay for 5 days (could be 7 but I think it's 5). They use a version of controlled crying (or controlled comforting) as do all sleep schools.

Bubba Hush Centre:
There is a private version at Keperra called the Bubba Hush Centre that does day stays only but you pay out of pocket.

Other:
There are also a few people (private MCHN's) who will come to your house and do basically the same thing with you in your home. Again you have to pay upfront, no rebates.
There's a company called Night Nannies that will come to your house, stay overnight and show you settling techniques, routines etc. They also have a service where they will get up to the baby all night so you can get some sleep which is really helpful if you're absolutely at the end of your rope and can't even think straight anymore, let alone try to tackle your baby's sleep issues.

Riverton is a sleep school for Brisbane. You can speak to CHN about it and tell them your desperate for help. Ask about doing a day stay while you waiting to get in.
Riverton is free and the stay is 5 days- Monday to Friday. All food is provided. The accommodation is not the greatest but it's okay. The best thing about it is that you can have some time out of the real world (no housework), get some support and be with other mums.

There is a QLD Health Day Stay sleep clinic at Beenleigh.


HTH hunny. Sleep deprivation is a form of torture for a reason!! Don't feel bad about trying what you need to to feel human again and to enjoy your life and your bub. Don't let anyone guilt you into feeling bad for trying to be better. No matter how you get there (within reasonable bounds of course!) you are doing the right thing for you and your family.

[~me~]

See if you can get into your CHN and talk to her ASAP. A friend did this here in Vic and she was referred by the CHN as a priority to Tweddle (the equivalent of your Tresillian)..it was getting dangerous for her to drive around due to sleep deprivation. Her little one was about the same age as your little one and waking every hour on the hour.
They may suggest a week long stay.
You are not a failure, in fact you are a wonderful Mum asking for help and advice as you just want the best for you and your baby.

[kelebek]

When DS was about 6 mnthish I had to start sleeping through the day when he did. It was the only way I could cope and get him to sleep. I remember when he was teething it was common for him to wake half hourly through the night. I went to Trisillian when DS was 11 mnthish and while it helped (he went to sleep in his cot to start the night) after this I did find it really difficult. I stayed for 4 nights. When we got home things weren't much different except he would start the night in his cot.

The only way we have gotten through is we got DS a king single so that I could join him when he woke through the night. He would still wake up through the night but I was right there to settle him and he went back to sleep quicker. I hate to say this but DS is only just sleeping through now at 3 and 1/2 and that isn't most nights.

some babies don't ever self soothe, others learn to and others self soothe from day dot. It doesn't make it any easier I know but it does get better. You are not a failure because your baby wants to be near you and held a lot. In fact you are a great mother in reaching out to see if there is anything you can do different to help

[ladybirdflies]

Hi Forshelby, can you clear your inbox I have just tried to message you some support options.

Thanks

[Jakabella]

Ok this will sound silly - but is he over tired all the time? My Dd would go 2-3 hrs between sleep in the day and I would see her sleep signs (rubbing eyes, grizzling) and put her to bed and she would drift off. BUT with DS is can only do 1-1.5 hrs between sleeps and if I see his sleep signs its to late and he is already over tired and trying to get him to sleep is a nightmare, he just screams and screams! So I put him to bed every hr or every 1.5 hrs without fail, I wrap him, tuck him in tight and put his mobile on, dummy in and give him his soft toy. He sometimes goes straight to sleep but usually he babbled for 5-10 mins and I'll put his dummy in a few times and he puts himself to sleep. He is so used to that routine now that he hates being rocked to sleep. He sleeps about 2 x 2-3 hrs sleeps and 3 x 1 hr sleeps a day, we use the same routine at night and he now wakes 1-2 times a night for a bottle but straight back to sleep. He was a nightmare to sleep day ir night before I started this routine.
It may not work for you but maybe worth a try? Saying that my DD in nearly 3 and she wakes once a night in a good night.. Its hard xo

[Jakabella]

Oh and DS us 5.5 months old so pretty close to your DS.

[forshelby]

MadB - Nobody in either of our families has food allergies. But I keep thinking if that was the issue, then he wouldn't settle at all, right? He'll have a good day here and there, which is what makes it so confusing. What is it that's bothering him the rest of the time that can just magically be ok on those good days? Hmm. I agree, there should be something out there for parents with no support around.

3littlemonkeys - Thanks for doing all that research. Unfortunately, they're all reeeeally far away. Beenleigh is the closest and it's at least 45 mins from where I am, maybe more. I might do some googling to see if I can find one closer. Also, the night nanny thing sounds awesome, but money is an issue. I'm spending a lot on physio and podaitry for his little foot problem, so am just completely unable to stretch the budget any further to accomodate this. Unless I find a way to survive on air? *chuckle*

Sahbear - I've been trying all day to get through to someone on the phone who isn't a machine. I keep getting palmed off to other various machines.

Sloane - I'm tired of being the unlucky one. I got the crap birth... did I have to get the crap sleeper too? Sometimes I find myself wondering why I didn't just die on the table. Awful, I know. So far I have been napping when I can etc, but I'm so over spending my day in PJs and grabbing sleep when I can. I just want some kind of normal life! 5hrs sleep a night plus a nap would be great, but it doesn't happen that way, as I'm sure you know.

Hoti - I was hoping you were going to say you waved your magic wand and all was well. Damn.

Heather - I wonder if I should be driving sometimes. Thanks for the advice.

Kelebek - I actually have managed to get him starting the night out in his cot/bassinette. But every night, without fail... he's up the instant my head hits the pillow. It's like he knows I've just gone to bed or something. I even tried varying the time and 'sneaking' to bed. Nope, my little alarm clock goes off. Thanks though.

ladybirdflies - Clearing it now.

Jakabella - Yes, he is overtired all the time, which compounds the problem. I find if i can FORCE him to sleep during the day by lying down with him (sometimes for up to 6hrs total during the day) it helps.... but as soon as I need to get something done, or go to an appointment (which is often with his clubfoot treatment) his routine is stuffed up and we start again. I think that's making it worse, actually.. all the appointments etc getting in the way. But I have to go to them! Anyway, yes, I've tried a similar thing, but once he gets bored with his mobile/toy/whatever, the screaming starts and does not stop.

I've thought of a couple of solutions which might ease my pain throughout the day. A single bed in our room would extend our bed to a king size or bigger. We could all co-sleep then pretty easily. But if DS cries, DP wakes up and is tired for work.... so that will only work if the little bugger will settle for sleeping beside me and not ON me. The other idea is sleep school.. which I'm struggling to find one i can actually get through to............. (will talk to the GP about this one) and the other idea is to just grit my teeth and keep going. I don't like that last idea very much, but it's looking very possible at this stage.

I don't know if any of my thoughts just made sense then... I think it's time to attempt a nap.

[Lenny]

It can be tough when you have little or no support. It's surprising how many of us are out there with no family to help.

Time was all that worked for me. DS1 started sleeping well at six and a half months. I was soooo tired and strung out - and then it just happened.
DS2 is 20 months old and he still sleeps like a baby - and by that i mean he grizzles and wakes up and wants company and sleeps a bit and grizzles some more etc etc! I didn't want to try sleep school just because the only ones i could find used CC, and that's not really my thing. I hope you can catch a few good days in a row and you can start to feel human again.

[Sagres]

Oh gosh I wish I could do something for you, I haven't had a non sleeper myself but yeah, some babies just don't like sleep and it is nothing you have done, some kids are just like that.

With the government run sleep schools, they work on referral from health nurses so even if you got to talk to some one they would probably not be able to get you in. So you need to get your local health nurse (not sure what they are called in Queensland CYH/CHN whatever) on side and fighting in your corner. Do they have day services in Queensland......where you go in for a few hours with a nurse and they have a room and cot set up and they see how things are going? While the intention is for them to give you tips on what to do, if they see what is happening first hand they will see that it really is an exceptional circumstance that needs an exceptional plan. From what you are saying she will be writing out the referral quick as a flash. Also it shouldn't be up to you to find different services and what not, your nurse is the one in the networks who has the contacts and knows what is available, get her to point you in the right direction.

Good luck...x

[Charlotte91]

Oh sweetie. I wish I could give you big squishy hugs.

No advice, just masses and masses of love.

[onthefly]

Is he on solids?

[starangelk]

Babe, you are 100% right - you need support. And here it is from me. No doubt you feel like you have tried EVERYTHING, heard every little piece of advice and swing from wanting to hear more ideas to just feeling like deep down this is the way it is for you and you have to suck it up. I am a big believer that when things really really suck we don't have a clear concept of how to fix the problem because our judgment gets clouded. I think you need a fresh start, find a brand new MCHN and get some else news perspective. It's just my 2c but I can tell you want and need support and I think it all helps. Massive

[Tuesday's Child]

Massive As another parent of a bad sleeper I don't have any advice that others probably haven't already given. I just want you to know you are NOT a failure. And it doesn't last forever.

[forshelby]

Is he on solids?

Yes.