Giving a baby adult panadol

[Tegam]

I wouldn't give her the bottle. If I have had to go out when I have a sick child I leave a note with the time they are allowed the medication and the medication already drawn up. Lol over controlling rn mum that I am

[*LittleMissSummer*]

I always put panadol/nurofen in DDs nappy bag if she is being babysat. I will also write a note saying what dosage to give her if she needs it, i dont care if its my mum, SIL or MIL i still do it because i want to ensure they do as i say. But i also write my numbers down so they can call before giving her any pain relief.

I would be absolutely livid if a family member or friend offered my DD any medicines/pain relief that i haven't specified is ok.

[Rumpleteaser]

Being a nurse, the idea of giving adult panadol is a danerous practice. It is never ideal to break a tablet, esp if you can get the correct dosage, you cannot gaurentee that the does is correct.

Though paracetamol is a safe drug to use if used correctly, it is the drug that causes the most hospitilisations when accidental overdoses occur.

The article PZ refers to is that both parents are dosing a child for pain without realising the other parent has already administerd a dose.

A death from a paracetamol overdose takes several days and is not a pleasent way to go.

[Traveller]

I remember having half a tablet of aspirin when I was a kid (showing my age here) from about the age of 7. If I knew the dose was correct I would half a tablet, but not quarter it without a pill cutter and I would only do that if there was no alternative. It's too easy to mistake the dosage when you start chopping pills in half and luckily my kids respond fine to children's paracetamol so I have no issues giving it to them.

[Nai]

Cherished, my kids vomit panadol but not other brands of paracetamol such as chemists own. Have you tried them?

I wouldn't do the adult tablets but if a gp or chemist did it, or showed me how then I might consider it. I certainly woldn't let a carer do it though.

[delphmoon]

Just asked my dr hubby and he said that you would need to give an 8kg baby, 4 tablets before they would even think about treating.... So guys as worried as you all are you really don't need to be. they would need to be given 200mg/kg for treatment to be considered. I wouldn't expect you guys to know that kind of info. Just a reminder that when I was a kid mums used to crush up panadol with a bit of jam to give to kids. It isn't crazy what she suggested. It just isn't what Babyluv is happy with. that is enough for the carer not to do it, but nothing to panic about

Hmm. Both your posts concern me. Paracetamol is one of the most dangerous drugs. Its effects on the liver is significant and can be fatal in the event of overdose. It is expected that health professionals would encourage parents to be VERY careful with paracetamol dosages for this reason so your comment of "don't worry' is alittle misinformed being that based on what you have said regarding dosages- a parent would only need to give the wrong dose 2-3 times to cause an overdose! Thats easy to do across the day!! This is not to mention the effects on a babies liver and kidneys from repeated high dosages.

And, yep- back then adult paracetamol was crushed and given to babies- thats probably why paracetamol is now recommended to be given as an oral suspension to kids so the dose is right for their weight rather than just 'oh yeah- 1/8th of a tab will do'. And I would be interested in knowing the overdose stats from back then to.

Anyway- I would be VERY concerned an angry at anyone being so complacent as to not bother checking correct dosages before giving ANY medication to my child.

[PumpkinZulu]

To me, just because the dose may not be enough to warrant treatment or admission, doesn't mean it isn't still overloading the liver, and over time scarring it or damaging it.

[Babyluv]

Thanks for your post Delphmoon.
I always wonder about the actual statistics when someone says when we were kids....
Just because it didn't harm 1 person doesn't mean many weren't harmed. I believe we have these warnings for the best interests of our kids, not to scare us or make life difficult for us.

[delphmoon]

To me, just because the dose may not be enough to warrant treatment or admission, doesn't mean it isn't still overloading the liver, and over time scarring it or damaging it.

Absolutely.

Thanks for your post Delphmoon.
I always wonder about the actual statistics when someone says when we were kids....
Just because it didn't harm 1 person doesn't mean many weren't harmed. I believe we have these warnings for the best interests of our kids, not to scare us or make life difficult for us.

I think so to. Children are soo precious and its not worth risking their health on a guess.

I think most health professionals would prefer parent be over cautious than under caution when it comes to medication administration and babies/toddlers/children.

I know I have instilled this in my husband who is a stay at home dad. When we first started using panadol I explained to him the importance of getting the dosage right and encouraged him to stop and look at the dosage in the syringe before giving it to her- basically to double check each time and not be complacent. Maybe this comes from being a nurse, but once you become complacent or habitual about giving out medication- the room for error increases IYGWIM.

Working in the community- you would be surprised to know there are alot of parents out there who actually think its ok to give their child one panadol tablet and rationalize it by saying 'well adults have 2 tablets, so a child must only need one' I nearly die when I hear this. Then they think because its normal for an adult to have panadol every 4-6 hrs, they can give it to their children every 4 hrs and boom- by 8pm you have an overdose on your hands. Not pretty

Anywho- the way I see it- if they have a safer option (being the baby/children panadol) why not use it? Better to be safe than sorry.

[sloane]

i don't know the article but a paramedic & baby first aid trainer told me that if you think a baby is sick enough to need paracetomol, then they should be going to the doctor anyway. i'm not sure if that's a little extreme but i do believe on erring on the side of caution.

my biggest issue, like others, would be with someone potentially giving your child medication without you knowing or telling you afterwards. i'd be seriously unimpressed with their attitude as well!

[Bella29]

Delph the point I was trying to make was that because Panadol can be a fatal drug, the dosages that are recommended are well welll, well below what is safe. which is why my it would take 4 full 500mg tablets before treatment would even be considered, so that is 2000mgs of panadol when the dose for that baby is 120mgs. So you see it is more than 15 times the regular dose before treatment is considered likely. So if you did twice the dose and incidentally that is often theraputic for a first dose, you are in no way going to harm your child. Even if you did that for 2 days

I guess I reject this concept of us being more stupid than our parents, who all gave panadol the way that is described above. Sure information is given based on the lowest common denominator ie the most stupid person in the room. I however know that I am not the most stupid person in the room and am happy to do a bit of maths... I am also willing to say to someone else, "here is the information, if you are comfortable making a decision do so." With making our own decisions we take our own responsibility. I personally am happy to take responsibility for my health and the health of my children.

also Delphi there is a difference between telling people to be careful and telling them to be neurotic. yes you need to be careful with panadol. that wasn't disputed in my post, but no you don't need to panic or worry about small miscalculations when you need to give more than 15 times the dose. Each person reading here has to decide what they are comfortable with. If they aren't comfortable, then don't do it. I believe I said that too... But I don't believe that we should give no information as health professionals just in case.... people simply need to be responsible for themselves.

[wysiwyg]

At the time I couldn't help but question the drug company because if bub is throwing it up and then you give more there is no way to know how much has been absorbed so why don't they sell a powder? My guess is that they are making loads and loads and even more loads of money of this yucky baby panadol.

There is more money to be made in having different formulations, so if it was felt that powder baby panadol was a good idea they would be doing it I am sure (just look at all the different formulations adults have normal tablets, gel caps, quick release tablets, chewy tablets etc) - being able to sell the same drug in a different formulation is what drugs companies love - reduced amount of expensive research and discovery and clinical trials required and another product to make money from. Parents would probably by both types, one kid loves the liquid the other doesn't, pre-solids they need the liquid, post they don't. A different formulation would only make them money am sure. Babies spit out food and throw it on the floor etc etc so ensuring dosage is correct is likely to be more difficult in a powder form. There is more than one type of baby paracetamol so it isn't in their interests to make something babies don't like - sure some babies won't, but that is the same with everything.

[delphmoon]

Delph the point I was trying to make was that because Panadol can be a fatal drug, the dosages that are recommended are well welll, well below what is safe. which is why my it would take 4 full 500mg tablets before treatment would even be considered, so that is 2000mgs of panadol when the dose for that baby is 120mgs. So you see it is more than 15 times the regular dose before treatment is considered likely. So if you did twice the dose and incidentally that is often theraputic for a first dose, you are in no way going to harm your child. Even if you did that for 2 days
.

I disagree. Once a drug steps out of that theraputic threshold and becomes toxic in the body- thats when it an overdose- not because of some standardized number that does not consider renal and liver function and weight. For instance- I I know I can safetly take 1gram of paracetamol. Someone of the same age, weight etc may 'overdose' on the same dose because they are at end stage renal failure or take medication that speeds up or slows down the metabolism of the paracetamol. But Im getting too far into it yes

I'm not disputing that its peoples choice on what they give- but, as someone who has seen the effects of overdose- I feel there is some responsibility to re-educate people and say "well there are safety issues- maybe try it this way" rather than "nah dont worry about it, it would take 15 doses before you did any damage" IYGWIM

[Bella29]

I don't take more than the recommended dose. I don't recommend other people do either. But if you can't quite get a tablet in exact quarters, then it simply isn't a big deal at all because the margin for error is massive! That is the point of what I am trying to say. People need to not be freaked out by scary stories. I have never seen a baby brought in to emergency in 7 years as an emergency nurse due to a parental error(other than them leaving panadol where the child can get to it). I have seen huge amounts of teenagers come in because they deliberately do it. I have seen kids come in for lots of other things that parents give them, but not panadol overdoses, even if 2 care givers give a dose of panadol each, whilst not brilliant is no cause for alarm. In the Royal childrens hospital in brisbane they used to give a loading dose of 40mg/kg PR instead of the regular 15mg/kg......

[delphmoon]

I'm not disputing what are 'acceptable dosages' are- anyone can look those up online without being a consulting emergency room doctor etc. My post and my opinion was based on how we educate people and as far as I'm concerned, encouraging people to do the right thing and be safe when giving their children ANY medication is important. I would rather promote caution than complacency and I don't think I am creating panic, or freaking people out like you have suggested.

[Tegam]

I don't like stepping in when things get heated but I have to when it comes to medical people handing out advice re medications. I too am an ed trained rn. I understand where you are both coming from but I have to agree with delph. We should not be encouraging parents to not be concerned with incorrect drug doses

[Bella29]

Do you know what I think we will just have to agree to disagree what the "right thing" is Delphi. I think it is fine for ppl to use their brains. You think it is safer if they just do what is easiest ie read the bottle and give a specific ml of liquid panadol. Whatever. It is fine for us to have different opinions. There will always be that in the world. I hope that the mums who google or search for this thread can see that there are different ways of doing things, and feel good about their choices, regardless of what they are.

I shouldn't have gotten into a debate with you, because I am very pregnant and a bit irritable and probably not able to respond to you in my most cordial way, so if I have been flippant or given offense I apologise. I won't be continuing the discussion cos I don't think it will lead anywhere that is good for my head right now.

So good luck to all the mums out there trying to decide what they think. I am sure if you use common sense, you will come up with a good answer that suits you and your child.

XX Bella

[delphmoon]

Thats ok Bella- there is no issue with having differing opinions and I was in no way offended or upset