Have the rules changed regarding car seats???

[phebee]

In Sweden children RF until 4 years, they have the lowest death rate in the 0-10year age group for car accidents. They've had about 5 in the last 40 years, that says something I think.

I feel like posting this on FB

[willow5]

Now I know why I am importing! Pretty sure the 'recommendation' is rear facing to 12mths but only legally required to 6mths/8kgs. You would think the manufacturers would run with that but considering they arent even organised with the Isofix changes yet and its legal in 2 months.........................

Manufacturers are interested in bottom line pretty much. If they don't have to they won't do it. But SnS know what happens if they aren't ready when the regs do change they lost big time when ERF and ISOFIX came in UK they are allowed to share standards over there so the European manufacturers had great seats ready to go and SnS(Britax) lost a lot of sales. So they will be making an effort here before hand. They were the first to test to 15kg here. Yeah so we can use ISOFIX but when will they release seats?? They may surprise us I guess.

[willow5]

I was just in the USA and I swear their rules might as well just say "put your kid in the trunk". I was horrified by what my sil was doing with her 5mo. My inlaws seemed to think I was OTT with the seat.

My dd was rear facing until 15 months when she reached 9kgs. I have an older seat so that was the limit, but she was perfectly happy facing back.

The thing with the US too is the rules can vary state to state, makes it hard some states I think are stricter than others. But the AAP recommendation in the US now is rear-face a minimum of 2 years. I don't know how many if any state legislations are enforcing that though.

[blessedatlast]

I have a seat with the height markers which I find just as confusing as my son is very light, so I'm thinking he *may* reach the height before he's 9kgs.. I am not in a hurry to change him, but I'm assuming it's dangerous to keep a seat RF if the child is too heavy or to tall fpr the recommendation of the manufacturer?

Teni - What seat do you have?

[willow5]

I have a seat with the height markers which I find just as confusing as my son is very light, so I'm thinking he *may* reach the height before he's 9kgs.. I am not in a hurry to change him, but I'm assuming it's dangerous to keep a seat RF if the child is too heavy or to tall fpr the recommendation of the manufacturer?

Teni - What seat do you have?

I agree! It's always best to go with the instructions in the manual! But, there have been cases where a manufacturer has said it's ok to leave them RF a little longer, I think I've only ever heard of SafenSound okaying this and it was NOT for all of their seats. You can contact the manufacturer of your seats and ask them directly. There are so many variables with seats I would never risk leaving them RFing longer than what is expresses by the manufacturer.

[BrightSparkles]

I have an i30 and saw a little tag in the seat that said isofix so maybe you can use them in that car? I don't know much about how the seat works but its the first time I've seen it

[willow5]

The rule is (as I understand it from booklet handed out by our RAA)
Rearward facing until at least 6 months (as they don't have the head control before this)
And 8kgs is the 'average' weight of a 6 months old.

Even going by height indicators doesn't give a true reading for everybody (as my SIL found out with her big baby boy, 10kgs at 6months)

If you put all the factors together you get the 'ideal' time to change seats around.

Age + weight + height.

I get what you're saying. Head control in reality has nothing to do with how much force a little body can take in an accident, so it's a very unreliable factor, and outdated.
It is about ossification, the strength and fusion of bones ad muscle/tendon/ligament strength etc. Even a 6 month old baby that has great head control will not withstand the forces of a car accident if forward-facing. There are seats used in Europe that have passed a test called The Swedish Plus Test. There is the Plus test and Plus test gold. There are only about 4 seats that have passed the Gold test. This test mainly focuses on how well the seat will protect the head and neck/spine in an accident. If a seat passes it is near impossible to sustain life threatening injuries to the head/neck in an accident. Short of an absolutely catastrophic accident that would be un-survivable for anyone, child or adult seat or no seat. There is not one forward-facing car seat in the world that could ever pass this test, as it just isn't possible to protect the head, neck and spine to that degree while forward-facing.
A child's body is more likely to be developed and ossified enough at around four to better withstand an accident forward-facing, but not fully developed as an adult until in to the teens.

The Australian manufacturers and legislators will argue that we have top tethers so we don't need extended rear-facing seats. While the top tether is absolutely a great safety feature to a forward-facing seat and does stop a fair amount of seat travel, it still can not match the safety of a rear-facing seat. Lots of variables even with the top tether too like the size of the car and space between front and back seats. Most ERF seats produced overseas now also have top tethers, some have a much better tethering systems than our too safer and more user friendly, ie no top tether strap in the way when getting babies/kids in and out of the seats and no need for lifting over, under or readjusting.

[xXHopeXx]

Chody - i've just PM'ed you a link for the rules in your state

[willow5]

I have an i30 and saw a little tag in the seat that said isofix so maybe you can use them in that car? I don't know much about how the seat works but its the first time I've seen it

You will be able to next year. as long as there is an Australian approved seat for you to buy. Many European and US seats are already equipped to use the ISOFIX system but we can't legally use them. We need to wait for the Aussie manufacturers to produce them. They have been working on it, they know it's coming but who knows how long it will take to see them released. Hopefully not too long

The reason ISOFIX is safer is it is simple to install the seat, So user error or misuse is reduced. A properly installed seat is a safe seat, apparently improperly installed seats in Australia is a big cause of injuries and deaths. Followed by improperly restrained children. So hopefully simplifying installation will help in that area.

There are some studies showing ISOFIX installed seats perform better in some crash test too. It's a rigid installation so I think they may perform better in side impact crashes, it's been a while since I looked into that so don't quote me on it

[TeniBear]

Teni - What seat do you have?

BabyLove... Something. I can't remember. Geez, I really should look it up in case it shouldn't be used rear facing after a certain point :-/ It's convertible at least

[shadow77]

ah ok :-) thanks for the pic Willow :-)

[Chrispe]

I absolutely agree willow. Actually I was told the head control thing was a day to day control, not just in a crash.
Forward facing on most seats puts it in a different position so a baby with less head control can actual damage its spine by travelling forward facing, not just in a crash. ITMS.
Sorry I should have put that in the earlier post.
It's both interesting and scary when you realise what the research shows, and what is actually recommended!

[willow5]

Yep I know what you mean Chrispie A lot of people think that because they have good head control that it also means they will do ok in a crash as well, it always freaks me out when I hear people say that so I tend to ramble on lol

It's very scary, you only need to look at comparison crash test videos to see the difference

[Chrispe]

Ok I just did my research on ISOFIX and why the bleep haven't they brought this in earlier?
My brother (who is a mechanic and auto modifier, and father of 2) has been saying for years that the baby seats these days are not secure enough with seatbelts! (he adds an extra 'safety belt' to his kids seats).

[willow5]

If the seats are installed properly with seatbelts they are still safe. The key word there is 'properly'! Europe has been using ISOFIX for about 15 years and our experts have said at every standard review since then that we don't need it. What a load of crap! If you ask them why we don't have ERf seats, they say we don't need them because the big killer here is misuse, seats not installed correctly. So if that's he case then ISOFIX's main benefit is ease of use and more likely to have correct installation, yet we haven't needed it for the past decade No logic there! We have also been making and exporting cars with ISOFIX for years but no we don't need it here Australia unfortunately is still living in the fact that we USED to have the best child restraint system in the world, well not any more and not for quite a while. We are hanging onto "We have a top tether we are superior" but the rest of the world is catching up and some countries are way ahead. It's time we put our ego aside and got on with better car seat safety for our kids

[willow5]

(he adds an extra 'safety belt' to his kids seats).

How does he do that?

[Chrispe]

I'm not sure exactly. He is a qualified fitter (works for a Subaru dealership and fits a lot of seats into cars).
He is also qualified to modify cars (within legal limits).

I do know he has secured the baby seats to the car seat with an extra strap- I'll ask him to show me next time I see him. (chances are he will be modifying cars for ISOFIX seats anyway)

[trishalishous]

we waited until DD hit every marker, she didnt get to 8kg until nearly 11 months old, but was way over the height marker by then.
I figure no harm having the RF for a bit longer, especially as we are mainly country driving at high speeds