Toddler discipline - help!

[Neenee Jellybeanie]

My 12 month old won't stop pushing buttons on the DVD player/set top box/tv! I'm living with my parents at the moment so I can't actually move them out of the way or put something in front of them. Actually we did stack some storage boxes in front but she's learned how to climb so that's no good anymore lol. Telling her 'no' doesn't work, she just laughs for the most part. I'm actually worried she'll tug on the chords in front of the TV connecting it to the set-top box and pull the whole thing down on herself. Again, I can't actually do anything about this.

How can I teach her not to play with these things?! The only thing I can think of is a tap on the bum but I don't want to do that, though this is turning into a safety issue.

[paradise lost]

The tap on the bum is very unlikely to work at this age (or any IMO) and you will face troubles when trying to teach her not to hit... Also it's important for when she's older that she learns to respect your words because if she only doesn't touch them in case you smack her, if you aren't there she won't be afraid of the smack and thus might well go ahead and touch, and thus unless you're actually physically there she won't be safe, kwim?

Honestly, at 12 months your only real option is prevention. A fire-guard in front? Moving the unit in some way that she can't reach? Kids can be relied upon not to touch things once they have impulse control, and most FOUR year olds still struggle with that! You can try making a noise rather than saying no, to get her attention, but you need to follow up by moving her away IMMEDIATELY and even that might not work. I use an escalating "a-a-a-a-a-a-a-A-A-A-A-A-A-A!" when DD is touching or doing something she oughtn't. It stops her *just* long enough for me to get there and grab her and move her to safety.

Until she's old enough to both understand that she mustn't touch and be able to control her urges to, anything she could break or harm herself on needs to be baby-proofed. Sorry hun, not really what you wanted to read i'm sure...

Bx

[Neenee Jellybeanie]

That was what I figured, really. Children are taught impulse control, it's not innate so teaching her not to do something at this age is impossible My mother keeps saying "But I did it with you!" well err, ok lol? I have no idea what to say to that. DD is into the books, the DVDs, all the shelves, climbing on the coffee table etc. etc. But they refuse to let me babyproof! The problem with a safety guard is that we might not be able to use the dvd/vhs/set top box if there's something in front of it.

[paradise lost]

Yeah, remember how awful labour was? I don't, partly because it wasn't that bad for me, and partly because in her wondrous glory of wisdom mother nature allows us to forget the challenges and relish the successes of parenting in equal measures. Is your dad around to ask? My mother told me before she died i was walking at 9 months, talking at 11 and fully TT at 14. My dad tells me i could *just* pull myself up at 9 months, and at 14 months i was taken to the potty every 60 minutes day in, day out. Mum used cloth and this saved on washing, but it's not MY idea of TT!!!! Sadly for his ears, he tells me, the talking thing was true! LOL. So it's possible your mum looks at your DD and remembers you "about that age" i.e. on your feet but not fluently talking or TT - that covers about 18months for a lot of children, so you might well have gathered by 2.5 that you needed to stay away from the videos, but it's also possible they'd all fallen on you 4 or 5 times by then, which will have cemented the "lesson"

Can you get your own place hun? Really there's no point in them letting you stay there if you can't alter anything for bubs, it has to be HER home too, you know?

Bx

[Mez80]

I just wanted to say that i hear u loud and clear on this one. I have a 15 month old who is into everything. I have raarranged my lounge room three times and put things away that i dont want her touching. It doesnt stop her climbing all over the lounge and standing on it with a big grin...i just say Noooooooooo while walking over to her, picking her up and putting her on the ground. After about 3 or 4 times she usually gets bored of this game and is into something else. Ahhh toddlers...so much fun arent they?

[Je$$_84]

this happened when we stayed at my MIL.... Her idea if fixing it was to leave it as is and have DS learn it wasnt ok to touch... After 4 weeks and an accident where i JUST caught the TV before it squashed him i went out and brought a cupboard myself which was suitable the DVD, AMP, set top box was all behind a closed door and the TV was higher up and he couldnt reach it (well reach it enough to pull at it)

when we moved out we had issues with our TV... (its a big one) he couldnt pull it down as its all in 1 but it had buttons on the front we just moved the coffee table in front of it until he learned he could climb on top of it... i really hope you work something out,...

[Charlyfrog]

yes little ones learn eventually but eventually..........and that could take til they're 2! We have had to put a whole play pen around our TV/DVD/Box etc but DD#2 has located the dishwasher buttons! She knows that if you push this particular button first, it lights up the others and then if you push them, a funny noise starts! Hearing you lovey!!

All we can do, apart from baby proofing, which I am feeling for you right now, is either the escalated noise as suggested as its not heavy handed iykwim, or a firm phrasing eg we use set phrases like, "away from the dishwasher/buttons" as we move her but we always put something else in front of her. For DD its a talking barn, with buttons that she push to her hearts content! Its touch and go for how long it lasts but the times are getting longer..... so I guess if you can, swap one distraction for another of similar fun levels if possible?

I agree with tapping the bot might be counter productive if you don't want them to learn to hit in the future.

(the reason I suggested set phrases is that, whilst it might take a while for them to pick up what you mean, if you couple the same phrase with the same actions, I have found that my girls pick up the meaning of the phrase, to the point that we can say the phrase and they get it straight away, iykwim? Again, can take quite a while as they need to develop to understand, but no time like the present to start the training )

Still would be nice if you could just sit back and relax rather than be on tender hooks 24/7 hey?? Thinking of you

[Emma1979]

hmmm am i lucky? dd has ALWAYS, from the moment she could actually get to things, understood 'No' and 'No touch'.... i haven't had to baby proof anything all she needs is to be told 'no' and the reason why (thats mummy's, not for you), from about 15 months we didn't really have to tell her no, as she already knew what she could and couldn't touch etc.... she has been able to understand language from a very early age though, from around maybe 8 months, and talking around 13-14 months, so i am thinking this has alot to do with it, being able to understand.... i think all the hard working teaching her words (from the age of 6 months) and singing songs and reading books has paid off a zillion times cos i honestly believe once they are able to communicate, or at least understand what you are saying, life is so much easier and happier.

ps she did go through a stage pointing to any object at all and saying 'mummy's'... hahahhaha ie because she had been told so many times not to touch something because its mummy's. made me laugh.

[Smoke Jaguar]

I agree with Bec - I think there's a bit of memory-enhancement going on with your mum, Nee...my mum does it all the time. Every time DS falls over and hurts himself she tells me she never let me fall over so that I never had to cry...yeah, right!!
Regardless, you need to tell her that as it obviously isn't working for your DD, she can either allow you to babyproof the house, or she can tell the coroner how she insisted that just telling her own daughter 'no' as a child was sufficient and she thought her memory was enough of a safety measure.
My dad refused to move certain things in his house and would have conniptions saying 'dont' let him do that, he'll brain himself'...and totally disregard me when I'd ask to him just put it somewhere DS couldn't access. I have no idea why some people are so against changing their physical environment (let alone their mentality) for children, as if they're selling their souls or something hideous, instead of protecting little ones I mean, if it's really that important to these people, they can just move everything back later on...it's not for that long, anyway.
If she insists that she cannot move anything out of harm's way for the sake of her granddaughter, then I, too, suggest finding your own place in the interim. It's not worth it, should anything happen - you need to stand up for your DD's safety, rather than living to regret that you didn't. It's like any occupational health and safety guide will tell you - the first and best measure is to remove the hazard, next if you can't do the first is to make the hazard safe (fire grate, like Bec suggested...boxes were never going to work!). We have these things enshrined in Codes of Practice for adults, and think that children should just 'know' better in an adult environment??
I'll just reiterate: once something has been identified as a hazard, it is negligent (and then punishable by law in a workplace environment at the very least) to do nothing about it. And god absolutely forbid the hazard becomes the cause of grievous injury for having been left there.
And I never believed that my mum never let me fall over when I became mobile. And she knows I don't!

ETA:
Emma, you may be onto something. My niece has been into books, reading and talking for a very long time. She is also capable of understanding when something is not to be touched or climbed etc. She was never as physical as my DS, though she may become so later on.
My DS has always been physically oriented (crawling at 4 and a half months, no mercy for me!), and a very 'trial and error' child. I took him to a term of music for kids and every week had a barnacle on my arm who would not engage and kept running to the window to point at the playground. He is only now starting to be interested in books...but not so much for reading as the pictures that go in them. He is getting into music slowly now, as our Kindergym program incorporates it in the classes. He likes to be thrown around on the floor and in the air, loves to sit and trot on my horse, chase dogs, run and tumble. He is very much a 'head first' kid. No amount of talking or saying 'no' was every going to deter him from touching and moving things.
I absolutely reject that this is because of 'bad training'. These are the reasons why: I have an English major and had a great line-up of books to read to my child before he was born and have always loved reading (duh! would want to in order to do 3 years of literature at uni!). I read poetry to him as a small baby to help him get to sleep but after about 5 weeks he just wanted to be walked around in the sling instead (books have been for throwing until recently). As for music, I'm a singer and we have a house full of instruments...no go there, either - only 'Wiggly Safari' has brought him closer to music appreciation...so I have Steve Irwin to thank!
Therefore, I really disagree that all kids can just be coached to listen to you from a young age (though, as Charlyfrog suggest, you CAN start using the words with her, even if she can't consolidate the words with what you want or don't want from her right now). There are cautious kids who 'listen' or 'think' their way around their environment and there are 'trial and error' kids who 'feel' their world (which ties into the Neuro Linguistic Programming idea that everyone has a communication style that is predominantly listening, feeling, or information processing) in the first few years. This will be the pattern until they are a bit older and all processes developmentally start to catch up (like DS starting to listen to me instead of me having to show him, and starting to use a lot more words now...though more degree of difficulty in his case because he's growing up bilingual).
Anyway, this is a theoretical approach to they why's and wherefore's.
Meanwhile, it's bloody-mindedness to me to leave a house un-baby-proofed for a physically-oriented kid when you are aware of what the hazards are.

[Cally]

We have babyproofed to some extent, but haven't removed everything. The rubbish bin is accessible and I had 2 weeks where everytime she touched it, I said 'No Katie, we don't touch the rubbish bin, it's dirty, let's play with the blocks / rings / books etc' and carry her away. We had a few tantrums, but she knows now that she can't touch it. Sometimes I catch her looking at it, but I just say 'Katie, we don't touch the rubbish bin do we?' and she moves onto something else. We do the same with Daddy's DVD's.

She understands lots of what we say so that probably helps, but just letting you know what worked for us.

However if there was something around that was particularly dangerous (eg television she could pull onto herself) I would be insisting on it to be moved / barricaded to some extent.

[Charlyfrog]

hmmm am i lucky? dd has ALWAYS, from the moment she could actually get to things, understood 'No' and 'No touch'.... i haven't had to baby proof anything all she needs is to be told 'no' and the reason why (that's mummy's, not for you), from about 15 months we didn't really have to tell her no, as she already knew what she could and couldn't touch etc.... she has been able to understand language from a very early age though, from around maybe 8 months, and talking around 13-14 months, so i am thinking this has alot to do with it, being able to understand.... i think all the hard working teaching her words (from the age of 6 months) and singing songs and reading books has paid off a zillion times cos i honestly believe once they are able to communicate, or at least understand what you are saying, life is so much easier and happier.

Nope! You're not 'lucky' (and I'd be the first to ark up over being told that I was just lucky!) - this is simply a credit to your style of parenting

However! .......

There are cautious kids who 'listen' or 'think' their way around their environment and there are 'trial and error' kids who 'feel' their world (which ties into the Neuro Linguistic Programming idea that everyone has a communication style that is predominantly listening, feeling, or information processing) in the first few years. This will be the pattern until they are a bit older and all processes developmentally start to catch up (like DS starting to listen to me instead of me having to show him, and starting to use a lot more words now...though more degree of difficulty in his case because he's growing up bilingual).

This perfectly describes my girls - black and white, chalk and cheese! (minus the bilingual bit, lol)

In your description Emma1979 of your little one, its as though your describing my DD#1! Everything you said, from listening and responding early, right down to reading etc and when your little one was able to communicate in a fuller way......that was my DD#1!
In your description Mayaness of your little one, its as though your describing my DD#2!! Which is why she has earned the nickname, "Bulldozer"

I went into parenting thinking that I shouldn't have to alter my environment for children, they will just learn - yes, I too would slap me in the head if I could go back in time! And I believe that DD#1 lulled me into a false sense of security as I have had moments of shock with DD#2 . Which is why I think a good point has been made:

We have these things enshrined in Codes of Practice for adults, and think that children should just 'know' better in an adult environment??

....hence my now current use of playpen around all things technological

Its sometimes hard to crack the old fashioned ways of 'the child needs to learn.' Yes, but the parent needs to have relax time too! As selfish as this may sound, from a mother's point of view on this topic, its not all about the child right now. I couldn't possibly spend my entire time ensuring my child isn't involved in some horrid preventable accident.......there'd be no dinner on the table, no clean clothes etc etc etc.

Then you have the other side of the coin, you're trying to teach the child not to touch, you take them to grandparents house and all you hear is, "Oh that's fine, don't worry about it. No no, let them touch that........etc etc etc" Yoi-yoi-yoi!! Its like becoming a grandparent turned my mother's head to moosh, lol!

Rather than move, is it possible to be more firm with your parents? As in, no worries but just so you know, this and this and this and this could happen and they could lose things through being broken that you will not pay for, but hey! If they're fine with that, sure you'll relax and let your little one learn....at their expense. Just thinking out loud, lol.............

[Smoke Jaguar]

I don't advocate removing everything. Just the dangerous stuff, where possible. The oven, for example, can't be moved so we had to implement other measures when he finally took an interest in it. Also, stuff of value is sensible to move, otherwise you take a risk with things that are irreplaceable, where it's preventable!
Distraction is our tool of choice when it comes to the things that DS wants to get into that are inconvenient or potentially damaging to goods that you can't move up higher (like the antique, inherited hallstand we have that has a flap in the bench that DS used to love banging open and shut...can't exactly remove it), the contents of the sideboard etc.
Dangerous things to little people that we took care of: the wood heater, DP built a grate for it; whilst learning to walk we blocked off the kitchen with a baby gate etc.
Baby-proofing really refers to safety matters, not matters of inconvenience. So, Nee, you can probably say this to your mum and she might see it as a compromise, or here's hoping, anyway!
ETA: I was composing when you posted, Charlyfrog! I agree - if you move nothing and expect babies to learn by listening to you, you would have to follow them around everywhere, or keep them strapped into a bouncer to get anything done! (And my DS' nickname is 'mini-monster'!)

[Artechim]

Nee Nee, we did a similar thing to Cally, every time he touched something he wasn't allowed I said 'we don't play with that, look what is over here, come and play with mum and this toy'. If he didn't listen then I would repeat 'we don't play with that' and pick him up and sit him in the middle of the room. From there he was free to go (but often sat and had a sook) and I would call him and show him a toy. Now when I say 'we don't play with that' he will usually move away and find something he is allowed.

It is a bit unreasonable that your parents won't let you baby proof. Could you just set up a fire guard when they are out? Surely they wouldn't make you take it down if it was already there?

[Smoke Jaguar]

Honestly, it doesn't sound like Nee's DD is going to pay much heed to words and distraction will have limited effect! It doesn't sound like a parenting quality issue (though, yes, using words and explaining to a language-oriented child reflects a parent responsive to their child's learning and communication style, so thumbs up!), rather it's a harm minimisation one.
And in kids like these, saying "don't touch, we don't do that" will probably ensure the child hears "touch, we do that" (if adults brains barely register negatives, kids' brains are even less able to register a negative before a verb) and always reminds me of the old commercial for whatever cereal that was where the mumma bear says to the baby bear "Now, you behave" and the baby bear says "Beehive, yum!".
So, if risk removal is not available, distraction and removal of child to an activity s/he IS allowed to do is the only other practical option.

[Liz]

Is it possible to negotiate a certain area to be baby proofed? This worked perfectly for us. We gated off one room and it was completely babyproof (playpen around the tv/dvd) no power cords or power points accessible, and only a couple of lounges and toys in there.

Then you kind of have the best of both worlds.. a place you can feel assured they're 'safe' but you also have the rest of the house for the 'teaching' opportunities.

Admittedly our kidsafe zone was a room that was overlooked by the kitchen, so it really was perfect for us, coz I could get things done in the kitchen while DS played in the gated off room. I'll be getting the gate out again shortly for DD coz the xbox and DVD player in the main loungeroom is starting to get too tempting! LOL.

But yeah, perhaps look for a certain area and ask if you can at least baby proof that part of the house, as it's a bit mean having to lock them in bouncers and playpens when you need to get stuff done.

[Neenee Jellybeanie]

I've been telling DD not to touch the TV buttons for 3 months lol. She totally understands, she just doesn't care. I can't scare her by raising my voice, sometimes I startle her if she's not expecting it but that's it. We've already got the playpen around the heater so I can't do that. I don't know what to do!

[paradise lost]

I've been telling DD not to touch the TV buttons for 3 months lol. She totally understands, she just doesn't care. I can't scare her by raising my voice, sometimes I startle her if she's not expecting it but that's it. We've already got the playpen around the heater so I can't do that. I don't know what to do!

My DD knows and doesn't care too hun I think to my DD i am a consultant with interesting ideas, NOT a parent with important rules. My dad says i've been using him as a consultant since i was 18months too so it's probably just one of those things. My DD can READ "no", let alone understand the spoken word, and she STILL doesn't care! LOL.

I KNOW i grew into a conscientious girl, and i think some of what will happen (i.e. our kids ignoring us and suffering for it) NEEDS to happen, so that they realise mummy isn't joking or being mean, but trying to keep them safe. I have certainly seen DD ignore me on something only to hurt herself and even if it's graceless, i ALWAYS say "That's why i told you not to!" when i go to comfort her. SHe's very resilient. I'm apparently over-protective, but i think i am gradually relaxing as she is finding some common sense!

Bx

[Kazbah]

Nee - I'm not sure how old you are, but could it be that DVDs, set-top-boxes and light TVs weren't around when you were a bub? I know that TVs were heavy things and VCRs hadn't even been invented when I was a bub!

If they don't want to totally baby-proof the area, you can get some playpens with extenders which will make a very large (2.5x2.5m approx) square which can just fit inside a room, even around sofas etc. Thats what we do - we're renovating and Pip is also like your DD in that "no" means "give mum a cheeky grin and do it anyhows".

Maybe, can you get your mum or dad onto their knees and have a look around from your DD's level? And see what's there?

Good luck.