How do you keep your toddler from running away in the shops?

:

---

I am not against the fact you don't agree with a harness, but one of your earlier posts was a tad off putting for me.. The one where you said that you dislike seeing parents use them as they tug and yank children around. Do you really think that is the way all parents use them? To me that was just insulting all the parents who use them for whatever reason they do..

---

that comment rubbed me up the wrong way too

:

---

my rule is to hold hand whilst wearing it, i.e. not just holding the end like a dog lead and looping the loop through my wrist for my own peace of mind unless both hands are busy (when opening my purse for example).

---

this is what happens with us. Depending on what we're doing and where we're going, we may use the pram or trolley, but if DD can walk somewhere, i'd rather she walked. we put the puppy harness on her back at her request (Gotta love hearing "spot SPOT" when she sees it) and we hold her hand with the harness looped on our wrist. she doesnt' get dragged along like some beligerent animal (but hey, i'm someone that wouldn't use a collar and lead for my dogs either - i used harnesses so they weren't tugging on their necks, and would stop and start a hundred times so they weren't being dragged along).

anyway - DD is allowed to let go of us provided she talks to us about what she wants to do (normally to look at animals or to eat something that she wants two hands for - otherwise, it's to push the trolley). she is conscious of the harness, and just doesnt' run off - but it has helped us more than once when she has tried to take off in a car park.



FWIW - i wasn't a fan of the harnesses pre-DD either. BUT i'm not always in a position to have a pram with me, trolleys LOOK uncomfy to be sitting in for prolonged periods, and i'd rather DD had a chance to walk around, explore and learn her limits - safely.

I don't normally weigh into debates, but beansbeans I think the fact that you said you took offence to them was not answering a question. It was blanket judging.
Yes you most certainly are entitled to an opinion, but saying like is was something damaging was very potentially hurtful to parents who, like you are just trying to do their best. Fair enough if it was for dangerous advice, but seriously, toddlers don't have any impulse control so isn't keeping them safe first and learning boundaries when they are able more important than moral parenting high horse?

I'm another that never considered using a harness...until Moo started to walk. He is a runner & can very easily get away from us. Yesterday he ran off in the supermarket & was halfway across the shop before I got to the end of the aisle! I plan to use the harness as others have mentioned - holding his hand/him holding the pram strap with it around my wrist. I'm at the point where I don't go shopping alone as he screams & tries to get out of his pram, it's just too stressful. It doesn't bother me what other people might think because he is my child & I know what is best for us.

:

---

I don't normally weigh into debates, but beansbeans I think the fact that you said you took offence to them was not answering a question. It was blanket judging.
Yes you most certainly are entitled to an opinion, but saying like is was something damaging was very potentially hurtful to parents who, like you are just trying to do their best. Fair enough if it was for dangerous advice, but seriously, toddlers don't have any impulse control so isn't keeping them safe first and learning boundaries when they are able more important than moral parenting high horse?

---

Actually I did answer her question in my first post. My objection to harneses was separate. I am sort of blanket judging, I am judging them from what I have seen when it comes to my friends using them, not from strangers using them. Also judging me for not using them is damaging, that makes me feel like I am a lesser aprent because I do not wish to conform to the general consenus that harnesses are good. And I am defintely not judging from a 'moral parenting high horse'. wouldnt even claim to do so, actually I havent so far, and will never do so.

not judging your stand at all darl, just your phrasing.

I am not judging you for not using a harness. I actually have never used one myself, but am considering it.
Your tone, your words and blanket judging is what has offended me.
You actually said in one post that you're offended by harnesses. How does that make a parent who has exhausted all options and still has to use one feel? Like crap. Safety is first and if a harness is what keeps them safe then a harness is what needed. It's just not as simple as teaching your children, teach all you like but a toddler is not always going to do what you want.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk so forgive spelling mistakes :)

I too am just wondering how someone else using a harness is offensive to you (even if they are your friends tugging their kids around). Okay you can not like them and not want to use them, but I still don't understand why someone using one is offensive to you? It really has nothing to do with you for you to find it offensive, they are not doing anything to you.

:grouphug:

;)

:

---

I flat out refuse to use a harness, just will not do it. I really dislike watching parents use them, the kids are being pulled and yanked in different directions, IMO boundaries arent really being set (well from what I can tell from friends who use them). (please don't take offence anyone)

---

I think you will find that this is what most people are taking offence at.
You cant really make a statement like this and expect folks not to take offence.
I use a harness (monkey). When DS is inside and happy to walk next to me, monkeys tail (lead) is normally looped around monkeys neck and DS is totally free to do as he wishes, but outside, in the carpark monkey is around my wrist, the same hand I am holding DS's hand with.
For me, its a little extra insurance that he wont take off in front of a car.
I have never really seen these leads/harnesses being abused by parents. But that must be just me.

I agree with PP about strapping our kids to the pram, whats the diff with a harness? A harness provides more freedom than a pram thats for sure and DD has tried struggling out of a pram so hard, I just had to give up and let her come out.

How about those skateboard things at the back of the pram? they look like fun. I havent tried one but that might be another option

:

---

:grouphug:

;)

---

Hugs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk so forgive spelling mistakes :)

:hug: Parenting is such a hard job and having children that run off in different directions when trying to do a few errands is very stressful. I think we as mothers have to do what is right for us. And if that means using a harness for safety then we do it. I personally dont have one. Have thought about it but have not ever got around to getting one.

Please be kind to each other and our parenting choices we are all in this together and we need to support each other with our choices :grouphug: xxxxx

Oh Geez, I didn't want this thread to turn into a debate, I just wanted opinions :doh:

I used a harness on DD1 for a while. She went through a stage (thankfully passed now!) where she was off in a heartbeat. She wasn't being naughty - just that she was very curious about things and was very quick on her wee little feet. My girls are 12 months apart and when DD1 hit 2 yr old I struggled enormously at shops. I would have a 2 year old who was very quick and inquisitive, together with a 12 month old who was insistent on walking too because that's what her sister did. DD2 wore a monkey harness too, but only because DD1 had one and so she wanted one too. She didn't need it and most of the time I either unclipped the tail so it was literally just a backpack, or DD2 held her own "tail". While there are some people out there who could definitely do with a bit of a firmer hand in disciplining their children, I think there needs to be more understanding that all children are different. Some are naturally more adventurous than others, and with the best will in the world, a 2 year old in a moment of excitement is not always going to take the split second to remember that Mummy said not to walk away.

I agree with PPs in that I don't feel there is any difference whatsoever between forcing a child to sit in one position, ie in a pram or trolley), and putting a harness on them. In fact, if anything with a harness I think they have a little more freedom.

I haven't read the whole thread..so I do apologise if what I'm posting sounds completely off track! Lol.

It wasn't until we went on a holiday to Sydney a couple of weeks ago that I finally understood why people use the leashes on their kids. DD thankfully sticks pretty close to me and I know she won't stray too far away, but I was still stressed out the whole time about her getting lost, or being so close to such crazy traffic and in crowds of people. If she was the type to run away or not stay close to me then I probably wouldn't have hesitated having her attached to me in some way.

She doesn't like to sit in her pram much anymore, if she is in there I pretty soon hear her chanting 'hop out, hop out.."! So I let her out and she walks instead. Sometimes she wants to hold my hand, other times she doesn't so I don't force her unless we are crossing a driveway. When we cross a road she knows she has to hop up so I can carry her across. Luckily for us though we live in a relatively small country town, so it's easier to let her be independent and walk by herself without the fear of her getting lost in a crowd, wandering off somewhere or walking out into traffic. I say, do whatever works, and whatever is going to make you feel the most comfortable about the situation you are in.

It saddens me so much what has happened to this forum.

Unless you agree with the majority then you get eaten alive.

I am going to get attacked as well - but I would never use a harness on my children. Wether they are a monkey or a bear or whatever they are still a harness. Once again though, each to their own, and I can understand why people with anxiety or people who are struggling may use them - once again, whatever they like. There comes a point though when we as mothers have to let go of control.

I remember when I grew that we constantly had to watch my mum because she would seem to leave and not care whether we were with her or not (in reality of course she cared! She just called our bluff). I use this with my children and it works a treat. I let them run off sometimes, however I set boundaries.

Children need parents who are in charge. Whether that be with or without the use of a harness. I also have seen parents "dragging" their children with a harness, and also without using a harness.

It comes down to parenting techniques again - same as immunisation, circumcision, breastfeeding... the list is never ending. Come on guys lets be kinder to each other - soon - it has got to the stage that I don't post any more because I am terrified of getting my head eaten off, but enough is enough.

Please check the original post - she was after hints on how to stop a child from running off - it's crazy that it's gotten into a cat fight.

As an answer to the OP - have you ever used a carrier? (Eg, an Ergo or something similar). Although I wouldn't carry my three and a half year old in an Ergo, there are excellent toddler and preschooler carriers on the market if you are prepared to look for them. Our DS has autism and although we do occasionally use a harness, if it's an environment where he's likely to have sensory difficulties he finds it less confronting (and more enjoyable) to ride on our back. Even now it's his predominate form of transport, he can't escape, but doesn't feel like he needs to (unlike in a pram).

Just to share an experience we had, once when DP had DS out in the harness (holding hands, but holding the rein loosely as a safety guard), a passing woman muttered 'he's not a dog you know'. I think it was meant to be out of earshot, but DP has excellent hearing. His response to her was 'I don't have the time or energy to explain to you in detail why we need to use a harness with our autistic child, so I'll show you'... Unclips the leash, DS, who is quite compliant whilst moving continually but will not stand still and wait, and who had been getting antsy in the few seconds DP had stopped for, immediately wrenched free of DP's grip and bolted. Two seconds pass, DS is about five metres away, five seconds pass, DS is getting out of range, DP asks the woman if she's going to catch him, because he's getting away, then as he runs to catch DS, he calls back to her 'That's why we use a ****ing harness'. Because, with all respect to dog owners, we value our son's life a hell of a lot more than we do a dog's.

We are well aware of our son's limitations in danger recognition, his auditory processing difficulties which means that he won't hear when he's being called, even at a yell, and his inability to recognise if he is lost or we are not within eyesight. Not even starting to mention the cognitive difficulties he has which means that reasoning with him is not an option yet. And we will employ any and every tool there is to help us keep him safe in the gentlest way possible. I've had to physically restrain my child in the middle of a meltdown in a shopping centre and it is one of the most unpleasant things I've ever had to do. Compared to that, using a harness as a back up (where DS is not even aware he is being restrained) is a gentle option.

I don't think the problem is been a minority V majority. I think it is more a poor choice of words in a couple of sentences that got people on the defence.

What you have said is all perfectly fine to me so no attacking from me.

And this is a classic example of why so many people feel uncomfortable posting on this forum and are turning away...

erybery - Good Luck with whatever it is you decide to do, I think it might take a bit of trial and error. When the time comes, I have no idea how I will control my DS. I already get frustrated when he wriggles away while I try to dress him!

I don't think anyone is shouting down anyone else because they don't use a harness and that's wrong. I think people have got upset because it was implied (intentionally or not), that people who used them were lazy and didn't know how to control their children. That is how I read it anyway.

FWIW, my DD1 has a pink poodle harness and loves it. Though she has turned more into a sit and protest girl then a runner.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk

I guess I get ticked off when people start with the whole "that's wonderful with your kids - they are perfect". Trust me my kids are not perfect. They seek boundaries and I set them. We work bloody hard to be consistent and fair.

There comes a point where you have to stop restraining their child. For some people harness is a step down between stroller and nothing.
There comes a time when a child needs to learn common sense - that if they don't stop at a road they'll get run over, if they get lost at the shops what to do.

When my son was just 2 my mum and I took him to the shops without the stroller. He ran off. Mum and I stood on either sides of the shopping centre but hid behind a pot plant so that he could not see us. He wandered around for a while looking at things, then as soon as he started to get distressed I came out from behind the plant and told him that if he runs off again he will get lost. Now I'm probably going to get eaten alive about this, but my DH and I had talked about it and came to the consensus that it was in his best interest. He is now nearly 4 and has never run off again.

SO that is the technique we used instead of a harness.

I appreciate that technique as well... with DD2 it works well and we never needed to use the harness. DD1 however, has been a different story. She's 6 and on the Autistic Spectrum, high functioning. Enough so if you saw her in the shop you couldn't tell, but the person whose car she ran into last month could tell you its terrifying. You have good days and bad days and sometimes its easy to blanket judge when seeing someone out in the shops, but unless you have worn their shoes, you can't really know.

I've used a harness with DD1, and not with DD2. I think you have to look at the child and decide according to personality/behaviour. :D DD1 was/is a runner/escape artist and it was a matter of keeping her safe. I don't regret doing it and sometimes I wish there was a way to use one with her now as an older child...

My DD1 (now 8) was never a runner. She was happy to sit in the pram and loved shopping. Pure bliss, lucky me!

Then DS (5) came along. A bolter who still hates shopping and hated being in the pram. I never tried a harness, didn't really think of it. I used to force him to hold my hand (from the time he was 2-ish) if he got out of the pram as otherwise he would take off. I got many a dirty look from other shoppers as my child screamed 'I DON'T WANT TO HOLD YOUR HAND!!!' and even better, when I wouldn't let go near a road, escalator... 'LET GO, MUMMY, YOU"RE HURTING ME!!! OW OW OOOWWWW!!'. Ah yes, the joy...

I used food as entertainment to convince the little bloke to sit in the pram - here, have some sultana's... look it's an apple... (and sometimes...) here, eat the Happy Meal because I HAVE to get this shopping done!!

My mother suggested (when he was about three and a half) that I actually let him bolt one day and he would then realise if he ran away he would end up on his own, that'd be bad and he'd stop bolting. So at a large shopping centre on a quiet day, he took off, I called him, he ignored me... and instead of dumping the pram and chasing him I let him go and stayed a safe distance behind him, ducking in our out of shops so he couldn't see me but I could ALWAYS see him. A good few minutes later he realised I was not with him, stopped, looked around... and couldn't have cared less. Off he went on his adventure and I dumped the pram and chased after him.

Ultimately, perseverance has worked for us. At 5, DS now knows the rules and will walk along holding DD2's pram or my hand. He still hates shopping so often I take the girls on Friday evening or the weekend and DS stays with DH... who also hates shopping!

That's the thing you can just try, do the best you can and at the end of the day hope that you have it right!

:

---

Please check the original post - she was after hints on how to stop a child from running off - it's crazy that it's gotten into a cat fight.

---

Yet you way into the debate?!? :o

:

---

A good few minutes later he realised I was not with him, stopped, looked around... and couldn't have cared less. Off he went on his adventure and I dumped the pram and chased after him.

---

:) sounds like my DD1, she did not bat an eyelid when I tried this. Worse still she talks to people. I just don't think she is at an understanding age yet. She knows to hold my hand but if something catches her eye then 'see ya mum'.

When my autistic daughter was a toddler, my dad and younger siblings were over for lunch. My sister was playing with DD on the trampoline and we were all aitting down in the backyard chatting. My yard was very secure - we had custom made gates that were very tall installed between the house and the gate. Despite my husband and I, my dad and step-mother, my 2 siblings and my 3 older children being in the yard, my daughter got out by turning her head to the side and sliding under the gate. I have never been so terrified in my entire life. I remember screaming on the phone to the police and being bent over, unable to stand up straight because I couldn't catch a breath. My husband was screaming her name over and over, so distraught he sounded like an animal in pain. We eventually found her 2km away. It was the worst moment of my life, only comparable to the time she punched out a screen and climbed out of the window while I was making breakfast in the kitchen.

Obviously, a harness wouldn't have helped in my situation, but if they save a mother from the excruciating pain of not knowing -even for a second - where their child is, then I'm all for them. Like a PP poster said, when you see a child with a harness on, don't judge the parent; they're doing their best to keep their children safe.

Interesting, I was involved in a debate about this with a FB friend a few days ago.

I was always one who was never ever going to put a "leash" on a child. Then, unfortunately, a few years ago I was witness to an incident. I saw a toddler boy ran out from a shop onto the street directly in front of a car. It was all so quick, there was nothing anyone could do, he saw something over the road and just suddenly ran. A few days later they turned off his life support and he was gone forever. I remember speaking with the mother some time afterwards. She was feeling so terribly guilty, her inlaws had offered to buy a harness as part of a birthday gift for the boy a few months before, but she had told them not to. She didn't believe in them and besides, her son was well behaved and disciplined and had never run off before. In fact he was never much of a problem in any way at all. Now here she was wishing she had said yes. And the driver of the car was so distressed she needed sedating at the scene and has never gotten behind the wheel of a car again since. And it took me as long long time to get those images out of my head.

Regardles off how well behaved & disciplined a child is, unfortunately children are also excitable, unpredictable and impulsive. And unfortunately they don't have the emotional or cognitive maturity to assess danger effectively until about the ages of 8-10.

And I agree with many others that the backpack harnesses are no different to strapping a child into a highchair or pram.

And I will be using my backpack monkey on my son.

I understand that some people don't agree, and each to their own. But some of the posts have been offensive to many, whether intentional or not, with comments such as "boundaries are not being set" etc implying that people who use harnesses are taking the easy way out rather than teaching their children how to behave in public.

These kind of posts would be equivalent to telling to bike riders to learn not to fall off their bike rather than putting on a helmet.

Harnesses are a safety device, and, having seen what I've seen, I would use one in a second rather than take the risk of losing my child, whether temporarily or permanently.

having seen the fall out of a strong willed, care free 3 year old doing a runner, hiding, FOLLOWING the people looking for her (a spotlight full of staff, customers, managers) and the police having to be involved - i'll do anything to make sure my DD is safe. Toddlers don't always have impulse control. older children sometimes don't either (in suse and christy's example of children on the spectrum) - we do what we have to do with the children we have, and the environment in which they are spending time. a quiet shopping centre in the country is a much different story to a busy suburban one. walking down a side street vs walking down the main strip (which is also the highway through town - with no bypass)

i choose to pick my battles with DD. I will compromise and negotiate and work out how she learns best when we're in an environment in which it is safe to do so. When i don't feel it's safe to give her free reign to explore and learn, i will take all appropriate measures to keep her safe


i tend to agree - it wasn't the fact taht people don't like harnesses that rubbed me up the wrong way (there are many things i don't like that others do) - it was the delivery of the sentiment

:

---

How wonderfully lucky for you. And what a wonderful parent you are.

---

I think that's a pretty poor comment coming from one mother to another....Cmon, how old are we?

Keeping them from running away is tough. Some toddler personalities can make it impossble :( I think your options are harness, wrist strap, perservere with pram (with the assistance of snacks :)), or perhaps do short little trips out to safe, quiet places to kind to help teach them..then build up to longer trips at busy shopping centres.
Our kids hold onto the pram strap, but that's taken a lot of effort to teach them that, but if they are cranky then it makes it pretty tough.

I havent read the whole thread only the first page and a bit of the last page but all I can say is I am sitting here in absolute tears. :cry:

The last few days I have had the worst experience with DD at the shops. I have had people judging me and I just cant win. The only thing for me to do is not take her to the shops.

She is 2 and a nightmare when at the shops. hates pram/stroller. We have both in the car. She runs away and doesnt even look back. No fear whatsoever and refuses to listen to me at the shops.

We have a little doggy backpack harness. I put that on her yesterday. All was going well for about the first 2 minutes, then she wanted to go one way and me the other. Well she just threw herself on the ground (multiple times) and what am I supposed to do??? Drag her? Trust me I was tempted but the looks I got were awful (mainly from women).

All I wanted to get was a bottle of milk as well :cry:

Today was worse. I had to go and pick up some travel tickets from flight centre. I did all the leg work on phone/email but I had to go in and sign and pick up the tickets. I got her into the stroller by bribing her that we would be getting a present. She did get a present (a new book so I wasnt lying). She can undo the stroller (I discovered today) and she was out. I told her she had to hold on to the pram. She did for about 10 metres then wanted to push it :wall: I wasnt allowed to touch it, but I wasnt letting a two year old tell me what to do. I wanted to get back down to the carpark and leave. So we get to the travelator to the carpark. DD starts to try and run off so I picked her up. She pulled my hair, hit me in the face/ puleld my earing out!!!!!!!!!!! :cry: I am trying to wrangle her in one arm and hold onto the stroller with the other arm.

We get to the bottom, I pull the pram over to the side and I told her in a very stern voice. No, you have been a very naughty girl. YOu do not hit mummy. In the pram now! She starts thrashing around, continuing to hit me and as I go to put her in the pram to restrain her, she throws herself back and smashes her head on purpose on the sides of the stroller! The stroller starts to tip and my hair is going everywhere being pulled! I was mortified! :cry: A very nice man came and said do you need some help, which I said yes please and he held the stroller for me steady so it wouldnt tip and I could get DD in. He told me that its okay, everyone goes through it. he was so lovely. No one else helped me, no one else gave me that understanding sympathetic look. I just felt like the whole situation (my DD) was out of control.

I am not a bad parent. We do discipline but I am just at a complete loss with the shopping centre. So I am sorry :hug: while I havent given any I just wanted to say I understand and if I see you or a parent struggling at the shops I will offer to help you. :hug:

ETA- I try the food thing (even maccas, chocolate, chips anything as i am desperate). I have also tried the letting her run off. It doesnt work for us. She just keeps running. Someone will take her and I dont fancy teaching her a lesson by putting her in danger.

I think Lee, that loulabelle doesn't just come from a mother who uses a harness, but one with a spectrum child who just doesn't live amongst our cultures ideals of teaching boundaries. I've been through so much with DD1 and seen and been judged in the shops again and again.

I used to put her in the pram with the 5 point harness with a monkey harness on her back and she still wound up in the car park running many many times. Its not a matter of boundaries or anything or even teaching them.... its a daily struggle and even at 6 years old I still can't trust her to run off. For years she was an escape artist, and still could be if she wanted too. Its a different lifestyle parenting a child on the spectrum... and I guess that its hard not to take things personally when people are assuming that its easy to teach them boundaries as you could other children.

I've had strangers stop me in the shops to tell me how bad a parent I am, I've had people try to smack M in the shops, I've had to hold her down to strap her in and leave my handbag/trolley everything in the middle of the road... I've been lucky and had people offer to help, but most of the time someone wants to tell me how horrible she is and how bad I am at being her parent. I'll tell you, she's alive.... and therefore I've done an awesome job.

Mummenurse, I don't get why posts always seem to be made so personal? Why do we have to defend ourselves constantly about our parenting? We have to do it in real life, but is the point of this forum not support?
The question asked was for tips to stop a toddler running, not a let's get nasty about one anothers parenting.

Just when I think this forum is where I need to be I start to wonder...

Let's get back to the original topic.

Christy, you are doing a wonderful job :hug:

Christy, I really do get that no one can fully understand each others perspective since we are not in the same situation. But it's about being respectful of each other.

Erybery,
Have you tried letting her choose the first thing to see at the shop, then you get to choose something (ie shopping). Shopping gets very boring very quickly for busy toddlers!

I also get my kids to hold the bag while I put the food in, let them find specific things on the shelf etc (obviously not the eggs!) Involving them in the shopping seems to help here.

To reply to the original question, I use multiple methods, depending on which way the wind is blowing ...

Harness used to work with Pip, until he got too strong and could pull me over when holding onto the strap. But he still loves the cow backpack it comes with and will take it out shopping with us sometimes!!!!

Other times I try to get him to hold the strap on the pram, other times the trolley.

Sometimes I'll have him in the double part of the pram but he bounces on it too much and I'm scared of it hitting the baby underneath.

But the best training I have is "ignoring" him safely when he's pulling a tanty. The other day he refused to get off a ride at the shopping centre so I walked off and "hid" behind a shopping display, and watched him in a mirror. Soon as he discovered that I wasn't going to give in to him, he spent a very long time walking nicely next to me and behaving properly. "Losing" me is the best punishment I find as it teaches him a lesson.

I have used different methods for my different children. With DS1 I used a wrist strap because he rarely ran away, but when he did I couldn't run after him so this gave him freedom and me peace of mind. With DS2 I kept him in the buggy for ages because he was happy in it, but ran off like a tornado when he was out of it so a harness was unsuitable until he was older. When the twins came along I used a wrist harness for a short while but he was a bit older (and we lived in a very quiet village) so I gave it up. With the twins I had to keep them in the pram until they were quite a lot older. Otherwise I would arrange to go shopping when someone else was looking after them. It was inconvenient, but much better for my heart than trying to wrestle with two toddlers in the shops.

:

---

Mummenurse, I don't get why posts always seem to be made so personal? Why do we have to defend ourselves constantly about our parenting? We have to do it in real life, but is the point of this forum not support?
The question asked was for tips to stop a toddler running, not a let's get nasty about one anothers parenting.

Just when I think this forum is where I need to be I start to wonder...


Let's get back to the original topic.

---

I wasn't attacking your parenting, if what you do works, thats great.

Its the blanket comment you made " and I can understand why people with anxiety or people who are struggling may use them - once again, whatever they like. There comes a point though when we as mothers have to let go of control." The way I read it is that if mothers are not in this "scenario" then it's not acceptable to use them.

I am not getting nasty about your parenting, it's similiar to my own by the sounds of it ;) I was just picking up on the fact that you "Maybe not intentionally" were the one judging. (IMO of course)