Yes, another questions about sleep!

[RhiChiChi]

My question is, at the moment DD has been asleep for 1.5 hours (yay!) but she is due for a feed (she is ff). So, do I wake her for her feed or let her sleep? If I let her sleep, how long for? I want her to go to sleep tonight, so I don't think it is a good idea for her to sleep for too long. Should I wake her after 2 hours, 3 hours?
I am a bit lost b/c she used to be an ok day time sleeper and a very good night time sleeper, but now wakes after we put her down within 30-45 mins, even at night and it is driving us insane. Sometimes we can pat her back / cuddle her back to sleep but most of the time she won't settle and sometimes ends up hysterical even when we are cuddling, rocking her etc.... We don't let her cry it out and we don't want to do this.

[Trillian]

I'm thinking that if she normally doesn't sleep for that long, then let her sleep - it sounds like you could do with the break too ATM. What is your nightly routine from here onwards? If she is going to be really out of whack by having a big sleep, then wake her, but she might have the cranky pants on so you will have to be prepared for that.

[Charlyfrog]

I went through a stage with DD where she was doing the same thing with her day naps - waking around 45mins in. A couple of times I offered a feed and she took it like I hadn't fed her for the whole day It only lasted a couple of days and then she fell back into her original routine ... made me think she might've gone through a growth spurt so needed the extra 'juice'..........do you think a growth spurt might be possible??

I am a bit of a routine chick as in I will wake DD up at regular intervals for feeds but that's just me and it's not for everyone, but if it is a growth spurt it could be worth a shot just for a couple of days to give your little one that extra fuel to get her through (if it is a spurt! )

I hope this settles for you soon and I hope you get some rest hun!

[krysalyss]

Hi Jooleshere,
I am not sure how old your DD is but we had a similar problem (The waking and not being able to get back to sleep). We were always rocking him to sleep. We started rocking him until he was calm and sleepy and then popping him down so he wasn't quite asleep. The theory is that he then wakes up where he has fallen asleep and also has a few minutes where he is putting himself to sleep so to speak. If he cried again, we would just pick him up again and rock until calm. It helps him be able to go to sleep over night if he wakes up or is light. It may help your bub (but of course they are all different). Also we always put on music during his day sleeps (he sleeps soo much longer then) and if he wakes at night and is hard to settle we do the same. It seems to really help us.
Good luck with it. Hope this helps.

[Jodie259]

sleep begets sleep.... so don't panic about your DD sleeping "too much" during the day. She will become more relaxed in the evening if she gets good day sleeps.

I went to sleep school twice (day stay & week stay)... and the problem with my DS was that he was not getting enough day sleep. He would then be overtired in the evening and a right pain to get to sleep. When he finally exhausted himself (crying/screaming) - he would sleep quite well during the night.

After the first sleep school visit, they taught me to get him settled during the day. I thought it was wonderful that he was sleeping for 40-45 minutes during the day (2-3 times a day).... as that was 30-40 minutes more then he had before. But he was still upset in the evenings.

At the week stay - I discovered the 'sleep cycle' where babies will usually wake/stir after 40-45 minutes, and it's best to resettle them (or let them resettle themselves) and they should sleep in blocks of 2-3 hours when young, and 1.5-2 hours as they get older (after 12 months for ex). Once my DS was getting 2-3 hour day naps... he was a dream to get to sleep in the evening.... a totally different child.

Personally, I would never wake up a sleeping baby to stick to a feeding schedule. The baby will wake up if he/she is hungry.

[RhiChiChi]

Well, this is what I did, I woke her after 3 hours of sleeping - at 6pm, then she had a shower with DH and a bottle. At about 7.30pm, she looked tired, rubbing her eyes and a bit cranky. I picked her up for a quick cuddle, then wrapped her and put her to bed. I swear, not 30 min later, she was wide awake, couldn't settle her, so got her up and just sat her on my knee whilst we watched tv in the dark and hardly spoke to her, by 9.30pm or just before we gave her another bottle and then she was completely zonked and slept through until about 5am, then gave her another bottle. She was a bit unsettled from being put down after the last bottle until waking up in the morning but I just patted her back to sleep.
This is driving me nuts, cos we just went away for 4 days to QLD and she was heaps better there, but now she is back to her old ways.
She has done the same tonight, up at about 5pm, I gave her a bath, bottle then she was cranky so cuddled her for a bit and put her down to sleep about 7pm. About 10 mins later shw was crying and we tried to settle her for nearly an hour to no avail - ranging from picking her up, patting her, stroking her head all until she is calm, then we walk out and then she just starts again. In the end I got her out of bed and she is under her play gym and my DH is entertaining her ATM but she is a bit cranky, probably cos she is tired. She used to go to sleep at 6pm, we used to feed her at 10pm , but then we just let her sleep and this worked for weeks, but then she started waking for another bottle and now she won't sleep from her say 6pm or an earlier / later bottle until her last evening bottle at about 10pm or fourish hours after the last bottle. We go to a one day sleep school session on the 31st of October. So I don't know if I should just wait until then or keep perservering with her. I don't think it is a growth spurt now, I originally thought it was but this has been going on for a few weeks now.

[Trillian]

It may not be a growth spurt but it could be developmental kwim? How old is she now? at certain ages they go through developmental stages that can interfere with their established habits. Sometimes you just have to persevere unfortunately, but you can also help to make life easier for all of you by just following their cues for hunger/sleep etc, even if it is outside the times they normally did things.

When you say 'up at 5pm', did you wake her or did she wake herself? If you woke her, then I would really be inclined to just let her sleep until she wakes up. But if she woke up herself, then maybe you could try to extend the time she is up for before putting her down. If she is showing tired signs (rubbing eyes etc) then put her straight back down again, even if it isnt' 'time' for her to go to bed, because sometimes once the go past that stage it is really hard to settle them.

[krysalyss]

Jooleshare - Perhaps when you thought she was wide awake she was just awake but tired (like a second wind?). Sometimes you just need to do something to wind them back into sleep, which is what you did by doing a quiet activity and not overstimulating her again. This is kind of similar to having a bedtime routine - it helps get them from high to low so they can get to sleep easier (ie we do nappy change and pjs on, walk around the house and say goodnight to all the rooms and people, I tell him a bedtime story while he is in his cot, lullaby). During the day we do a wind down if he is really awake but obviously tired. I just walk around the house with him on my hip and quietly point things out. Then when I put him down 5 mins later he is more likely to go straight to sleep.
HTH

[RhiChiChi]

DD is 16 weeks old.
I didn't wake her at 5pm, she woke herself. I was scared about leaving her to sleep for so long during the day but as you have said again, just leave her, so I will from now on.
Last night was a nightmare. She woke herself up from a 1hr 20 min sleep at about 4.20pm, I tried to get her back to sleep, re-wrapped her, cuddled her etc....to no avail so I got her up and let her play under her playgym - she was due for a feed at about 5.30pm but she seemed to be unsettled, so I offered her a bottle at about 5pm and she drank it all. DH then had a shower with her and offered her some more bottle but she didn't take it. She was tired by about 6.20pm so DH cuddled her, then wrapped her and put her to bed. She woke about 7pm and we persisted for about 30mins to get her back to sleep - again re-wrapping her, patting her, cuddling her, sitting in the rocking chair. In the end we bought her out to the lounge where she sat on our knee in darkness - just the t.v on but she showed tired signs, so we tried cuddling her but I think she was overtired and grizzled until I gave her a bottle at about 8.30pm, she only took 90 mls but then I wrapped her and put her straight to bed, again she woke and we tried re-settling her. In the end we put her in bed with us until she fell asleep, which was about 9.30pm and then put her in her cot in her own room and I didn't hear from her until 1.30am, which I then gave her a bottle. She then slept through until about 6am, but was just chatting in her cot, so I left her there. She yelled out at about 6.30am, so I got up but when I got to her room she was alseep (or her eyes were closed) so I left her until 7.30am, which is when she woke again. So far she has slept for 40 mins this morning and I have just put her down again, wrapped and awake and she seems to have drifted off. She protested for a little while but I just come in her room and popped her dummy in and left without saying too much, maybe the odd shhhh or it's ok, night night.
Maybe our re-settling techniques are too overstimulating? Could this be the case? It seems that if we go in and pat her or stroke her head she gets worse.

[krysalyss]

It could be the case. I have found sometimes with my DS that sometimes I stimulate him rather than calming but each time is different. We have found it is better to pick him up to rock only if he is crying as if he isn't but is just grumbling then it can overstimulate him and he starts really crying. In fact this is true of DS for all touching including stroking of the head. The only exception is if he is sleeping on his side he likes his bum to be patted (like you would if he was being rocked). If he is just grumbling (especially if his eyes are closed and he is obviously trying to sleep) sometimes it just helps for us to do a 'shoosh shoosh' sound repeatedly or to wander around the room quietly tidying up so he knows we are there. Then if he starts to cry we can pick him up for rocking etc. Generally if he then won't settle it is because he was too over tired in the first place.
I guess some things we think would be comforting aren't always to them.
Puzzles wrapped in enigmas - lol!

[Jodie259]

Maybe our re-settling techniques are too overstimulating? Could this be the case? It seems that if we go in and pat her or stroke her head she gets worse.

One of the things that sleep school taught me... once you've put your child to sleep in their cot - don't take them out until their "sleep time" is over. ie: don't take them out for a cuddle or settling outside of the cot - unless they are REALLY upset.
"comfort parents" won't agree with that... but I discovered that you are able to stay with your child... soothe them, pat them, calm them, talk softly... and they resettle. And they will get used to falling asleep in their cot - and will be able to do that themselves in a short time.

You don't have to do any 'controlled crying' techniques. You can stay with your child until they sleep. Just try to resist picking the baby up. I used to sit beside my DS and hold his hand, and pat his back with my other hand.

I have found that my 17mo child is going through a 'habit' at the moment of going to bed... then screaming - not cryng. If we go in too soon - he just wants to play... and that is at 9-10pm... when his usual bedtime is 8pm. But, if we let him hollar for 10 minutes... he wears himself out... and we go in and he scoots onto his bed, and either myself or DH lie down with him, and he goes to sleep within mintues.


There are soooo many different ideas & techniques that can be suggested... and some techniques work for some, not for others. Some mums need to rock/hold their babies to sleep. Some mums can get so sleep deprived that they will do anything to get their baby to sleep.

A child will learn 'habits' very quickly. Even a little bitty baby will know if it cries... mummy will come in and pick me up and give me cuddles.... even if they are 'meant' to be asleep. By crying, and being picked up... they are being stimulated... and will often find it dificult to relax enough to sleep.

good luck. I hope you find something that works. Sleep school is not for everyone... but it was the best thing I ever did. You can ask you maternal nurse or GP if you want to consider going to one.

[RhiChiChi]

I'll try not picking her up. I'll just hold her hand and pat her and see if that helps.
She still needs to be wrapped otherwise she won't sleep, but she can unwrap herself now. I tried putting her down unwrapped this morning but she wouldn't settle and once I wrapped her, she protested for a bit but then has dozed off, only been 15 mins.....

[Jodie259]

I went through a stage with my DS. From birth... he hated being wrapped. The nurses at the hospital didn't believe me and would wrap him so tightly... and the little houdini still got out of it.

But after a while (not sure what age)... I tried to wrap him again... and he took to it okay. I must admit, I would leave at least one arm out... and he seemed fine with that.

Just remember Jooles.... whatever technique you try - its not going to work the first time you do it. It will take a little while for a baby to adjust to something different. With my son... it was only a day or two and his entire sleeping habits changed. But I had to be so strong to be consistant... and at sleep school it was much easier to have the support & encouragement from the nurses.

If you are given suggestions from people, or you read stuff in books... try to be consistant for at least 2 days - for every sleep. If it doesn't seem to be making a difference... then try something else.

Good luck..