Dont want to immunise, but.....(Micheal??)

[Arcadia]

At the risk of seeming obsessed by this issue, I thought I would share this link from Monash uni, which runs through the major studies into MMR and autism. It leaves room for the anectdotal causal link, but offers a pretty straightforward summary of the scientific evidence. (I was a librarian before I had bub...can you tell?)

ACTNOW Fact Sheet 16

[~Saram~]

Thanks Anna for that link, I guess my problem with all the studies conducted so far look at a very simplified version of the link between autism and MMR. Firstly researchers don't really seem to grasp the true and differential nature of autism and spectrum traits. There is more to autism then a child who starts arm flapping, rocking and head banging 6 days after being vaccinated. A more conclusive study would be to look at the children immunised over a period of birth to age 14 and have parents, teachers and autism professions conduct investigations into any autistic traits displayed by these children from birth to age 14 particularly in the months proceeding vaccination. Many children with ASD are not diagnoised until age8-9 as traits are so inconclusive on thier own and a lot of children who show some or not all of the traits of ASD are never diagnoised as having spectrum traits. I also think they over simplifiy the complex interaction of the body by suggesting that seperate vaccinations may prevent the problem. It may be the interaction of the components of one part of the vaccine that triggers or it may be a combination of these things overwhelming the body.


Currently my son is on a very strict diet that limits not only chemicals in his food but in our house (cleaning, toys, fabrics etc) We have seen a huge improvement since implementing this. How then can a researchnot anaylse how a body that is sceptible to autism is going to react by introducing a attenuated virus or immune trigger not to mention what else is in the mixture. We already know that viruses and vaccines have been implemented in causing unpredictable changes in the body such as the first rotavirus vaccine (released many years ago) which actually caused diabetes!!! Now we have the HPV vax which is triggering a range of unusual reactions like chronic fatigue etc

I agree with Schmikers where there's smole there is fire - parents have noticed since day dot that there was something up with this vaccine. When DS was a baby I too read all the studies and concluded that their was no link, that's what the "reputatable" studies I had access to suggested. That's what the dr said when I asked. No worries, if there was a link every child would have autism right! So we vaccinated. And to be honest I never noticed anything after his baby immunisations but he ws already delayed and demonstrated autisitc traits from a young age. I can personally attest to the horrific few weeks after my son was vaccinated with MMR at age 4. He was intensely more hypersensitive to touch, developed traits not already displayed like increased violence, yelling and screaming, biting and other sensory seeking activities like slamming himself into walls and poles. This continued for months after until he gradulally settled into a new pattern of behaviours that we manage on a day to day basis. This was a child who we had already identified as "quirky" and with delayed developemnt. If it wasn't for our strong family history and hubby and I picking up it would have been very easy for us to say - yep it was the MMR that did it.

I don't necessarily believe that MMR causes autism. I believe that in some individuals who have some underlying predisposition to autism that there is a risk. Both my SIl and I have children on the spectrum, my son, her son and daughter, all vaccinated. Both of us after having our children diagnoised decided not to have our other children vac and she has a healthy happy boy without any traits as yet and I have my DD who doesn't display any traits as yet. if they were to do the study on our family what would that prove??????

[Inanna]

Saram your experience and your explaination mirror my feelings so well. Thankyou for sharing so incredibly eloquently your position.

I have the same issue. My DH I believe is on the spectrum and clearly others in his family are as well - some diagnosed and others not. I believe when there is a family pattern this genetic predisposition is aided by the assault that immunisation inflicts ont he body.

I am explaining this as simplistically as I can - so as not to confuse readers.

My daughter has Aspergers and her changes became most apparent after immunisation - the head banging, the rocking, the touch aversion. Though she as I said earlier was always a very unsettled and fractious baby.

Had she not had such a horrific reaction to her immunisations I would have continued on the regime.

I believe that some children who perhaps do not have this genetic predisposition can be immunised without issue. But I do believe through colloquial evidence, both professionally and as a mother that immunisation can trigger the ASD....

[kroggies]

Hi,

I agree with all who said there should more consideration into the one size fits all vaccines that are currently offered. To give the same dosage at different ages is just insane. There should also be the option to have the vaccines separately. There is such controversy with the combined ones that more and more mums (im finding out from this forum as well as uk and us ones) are wanting the choice for separate vaccines.

I was utterly shocked and amazed to find out you CANNOT get the Measles and Mumps vaccines separate in Aus. I guess the pharmaceutical companies have no interest in spending more money to produce and market them, when according to them the MMR does the same job and it is not linked to Autism.

I am more inclined to believe parents who say there is some link, whether based on ingredients, too many live vaccines in one, predisposition to something or family history than the doctors and pharma companies who have no interest in my child's health whatsoever.

I am looking into importing the separate Measles vaccine from overseas, but they can only get it in a batch of 10 unfortunately, so if anyone is intersted in ordering it please let me know -

It is really frustrating to NOT have the option to buy them separately. After much research (my eyes and brain are sore!) i have decided not to give the MMR. Had the R which is the only separate one in the combo available in AU, still trying to get the M and M for my daughter.

I am not necessarily anti vaccines, i am anti lack of choice and anti one size fits all.

Also agree with the delaying of vaccines. There is evidence to show the Japanese system is working, so i think with the next bub i will delay them maybe until after 12 months at least.

I also think the ones offered at birth are useless. Hep B....spread by blood transfusion and sex....come on, does a baby need that??? Also check out iansvoice.org i believe, shows the 47 days of life of this baby that died after the hep b vaccine. SCARY stuff.

There have also been a few cases of autism that have been proven to be caused by the MMR vaccine in the States (there is believe it or not, a vaccination court that deals with vaccination suits in the States...) One as recent as March or feb this year. Type in Bailey Banks into google. Makes you think twice b4 doing the combined.

That plus the fact that Merck, the only maker of the mumps vaccine (another component of the MMR) has stopped production indefinately. There are rumors in the UK that the NHS has done a deal with merck to provide the MMR and they are stopping production of the mumps vaccine. So if you wanted to get them sepately, you might have been table to before, not anymore (not sure if they are resuming production sometime soon....) Very interesting to see if they stop production of the measles too, and then you will have NO options besides the MMR....Revenue conspiracy??? Looks a little like it.

Thanks to all who participated in this thread i spend my daughters sleep time reading it ( much better than ironing

renate

[JellyBean]

Janie - bubs do have immune function - but it is rather weak. The immune system gains strength with time as it is exposed to various bacteria and viruses. Every time a person gets sick, their immune system develops antibodies in response to that particular virus. During breastfeeding, the baby receives antibodies from any bacteria/viruses the mother has either contracted or been exposed to for at least the past 4 years. This is arguably the best thing about breastfeeding - you are literally 'feeding' your babies immune system with this method.

We normally contact bacteria/viruses via our mucous membranes - which line our nose, throat, etc. These mucous membranes play an important role in literally 'registering' and forewarning the immune system of the newly invaded pathogen, and set up a 'blue-print response' if you like, for the immune system to get its army ready to fight the pathogen before it proliferates its way throughout the body.
The problem with vaccines is, they inject the pathogen (virus) as well as many other not so pleasant ingredients directly into the blood stream. This catches the immune system completely off guard, and the traditional immune response to the pathogen does not ensue. This helps to explain why some individuals have such a sudden and violent reaction to the vaccines - from the topical skin rashes and blisters to seizures and even death. The body is literally saying "what the hell are YOU doing here and how on earth did you get past me without me knowing?! I am not prepared for this!"

I remember reading a study not that long ago that looked at antibody count of vaccine viruses in vaccinated children. There was a substantial number who were found to have either no or very minimal antibody count for the viruses they had been vaccinated for- indicating that they were actually not immune from these viruses. It was suggested that this was due to poor immune system response, in response to the 'unatural' exposure of the viruses via the blood stream rather the usual route of the mucous membranes. Whilst it is important to note that sufficient antibody count was present in most children in the study, this study clearly displays the fact that no two children's immune systems are the same, and the medical field's approach to vaccinating all infants and children with the exact same doses at the exact same times is incredibly flawed, treats people as though they are merely numbers, and is in desperate need of review.
As for the 'no evidence' factor regarding autism and vaccines, it may be worth remembering that not all that long ago, the medical profession claimed that there was no link between smoking and cancer. All sorts of weird and wonderful potential culprits where suggested to explain the high prevelence of cancer amoungst smokers as opposed to non-smokers. Doctors even recommended women to smoke during pregnancy as it would help them to 'relax.'..... and look where we are today.
Truth exists regardless of white coats and degrees. Peer-reviewed medical journals aside, there is no greater evidence in one persons life than personal experience.
At the end of the day, we only have ourselves and the ability to do our own research, trust our gut instincts, and perhaps listen to those out there who are fighting to tell their stories against a sea of animosity and opposition.

[kroggies]

i couldnt agree more jelly bean! Well said