Nation-wide Flu Vaccine Ban for Children Under 5

[2CheekyMonkeys]

good point lulu.. :-) thanks for bringing me back to earth LOL

[Mother Goose]

A vaccine doesn't prevent anyone from getting the disease/condition. The vaccine introduces the body to the virus so that it can "fight" it. Then, if they get the REAL virus, the body registers that it has already fought the virus once before and sends out the appropriate responses thereby making the impact of the virus less severe, shorter in duration, and less likely to cause any severe complications. It does not stop any individual from contracting it in the first place.

[Peg]

Looks like a researcher found the reason for the bad reactions to the vaccine...heres the full article from the age today

Residue in flu jab causing kids' reactions: scientist
GRAEME O'NEILL
May 2, 2010

A LEADING researcher claims to have identified why the seasonal flu vaccine is causing an outbreak of adverse reactions in children, including high temperatures, fits and convulsions.

Professor Nikolai Petrovsky, a Flinders University immunologist, says an experiment he carried out indicates that large amounts of viral genetic residue created by the vaccine's manufacture were overloading infants' immune systems.

The experiment left him in "absolutely no doubt" that high levels of the residue in the form of RNA (the viruses' genetic blueprint) were the cause.

Professor Petrovsky's claims were supported by Melbourne immunologist Professor Bryan Williams, whose team at the Monash Institute of Medical Research is at the forefront of research into how the immune system detects infection.

"I was planning to design my own experiment to test this, before I heard about Professor Petrovsky's result," he said.

This year's vaccine contains more RNA than previous years, because it consists of several inactivated seasonal strains of influenza virus combined with the pandemic H1N1 swine flu strain. Professor Petrovsky says RNA extracted from the flu vaccine triggered an "enormous reaction" in human immune-system cells in vitro.

Professor Petrovsky is founder and chief executive of Vaccine Limited, which has developed a system for producing vaccines in genetically modified insect cells without using viruses themselves.

The method does not produce genetic residue.

Professor Petrovsky said it was ''amazing that the regulatory system still doesn't require manufacturers like CSL to measure the amount of contaminating RNA, despite 50 years of data showing that RNA levels can vary greatly from vaccine to vaccine''.

''It's a nonsensical way to make a reliable product for human medical use,'' he said.

A CSL spokesman declined to respond.

Five years ago Carol Sledz, a graduate researcher in Professor Williams' research group, published a paper in Nature Cell Biology reporting that short RNA molecules could trigger the innate immune response in mammals.

When the RNA molecules activate the receptors, the cells produce interferons, which cause a protective fever and an elevated temperature that helps to destroy viruses and TNF-alpha, which drives a cascade of inflammatory reactions.

These are the symptoms seen in the children who have suffered adverse reactions to the seasonal flu vaccine. In the early years, fever and high temperatures can cause mental confusion and convulsions.

Professor Petrovsky says RNA-digesting enzymes degrade RNA residues in some flu vaccines, but CSL's vaccines consistently rank near the highest for RNA.

"Trust me, i'm a doctor" comes to my mind.

[Raupe]

A vaccine doesn't prevent anyone from getting the disease/condition. The vaccine introduces the body to the virus so that it can "fight" it. Then, if they get the REAL virus, the body registers that it has already fought the virus once before and sends out the appropriate responses thereby making the impact of the virus less severe, shorter in duration, and less likely to cause any severe complications. It does not stop any individual from contracting it in the first place.

:yeahthat:

Two cents alert!
The point is that the seasonal flu vaccines and the swine flu vaccine are ACTIVE vaccines, which means that you get a small (very small) dose of the virus injected so your body can create antibodies. That means that your body has to be strong and healthy enough to fight the virus. That's why doctors recommend you only get a shot when you are feeling well, 'cause if you are sick already, your body isn't strong enough to build those needed antibodies. That's exactly why I don't understand why they want young children and pregnant women vaccinated... Doesn't that just put them more at risk? Especially when they give little kids multiple strands of different viruses. So they don't just fight ONE virus, but a couple! That is a huge task for their little bodies... It would be alot better if they would give out PASSIVE vaccines, which means that the antibodies are being injected rather than the virus. Unfortunately it takes a lot longer to make a passive vaccine, and as the flu changes seasonally, they just wouldn't be able to keep up 'production'. As far as I know from the time I studied at Uni, to get a passive vaccine, the virus is injected in an animal that is genetically close to humans, i.e. pigs and horses, so they create antibodies that are then being 'harvested'. It's sounds terrible, too, doesn't it? There we go. I just created an ethnical dilemma, too.

I'll just shut up know. I think I'm not helping much...

I just want to say that I feel really sorry for all parents out there having to make all those difficult decision. Especially when what has been said to be right today is supposedly wrong tomorrow. How very confusing. Even professionals don't agree, so who should you trust? I feel for you.

[Little Chicken]

They are active but they are weakened viruses, called attenuated, and should only cause infection in those with severely weakened immune systems. The old oral polio vaccine was like this which is why they used to recommend not giving it to someone if there was a person with a weakened immune system in close contact with them. Most vaccines these days contain just part of the infectious organism called an antigen which your body then makes antibodies against. I think they make anti-venoms the way you describe Raupe. You can get antibodies given to you in certain circumstances (chickenpox immunoglobulin, anti-D injections for example), but you have to be exposed to the problem first for them to have any effect as they "mop up" an already present infection or problem, they will not give you the long term protection that immunisation will by letting you produce your own antibodies for years to come. Unfortunately some viruses do not produce an immune reaction if given when they are dead. There is conjecture that the reason some children who are fully immunised against whooping cough are getting the disease is because the acellular version does not produce as strong an immune reaction as the old vaccine which gave the whole (dead) bacteria in the dose. This version of the vaccine though produced a lot of side effects which was the reason why it was replaced.

The reason they don't like to immunise you when you have an illness is because your body is already fighting an infection, why introduce another one then?

While these reactions have been horrible and must have been devastating for the parents to watch, WA started recommending flu vaccines for the under fives after some healthy children died of the flu only 2-3 years ago. I agree, it is very confusing and a very hard decision to make. I am still trying to decide whther to get myself and DD vaccinated for the swine flu.

[Visitor6]

Sounds like that article has been an advertorial for Dr Petrivski's Company. If the Monash team have know of an alternative for 5 years, why are they spruiking now AFTER, the fact and why are they hitting the papers instead of the the Chief Medical Officer.

The immune response described is interesting, TNF-alpha is released as part of anaphylaxis; it does a lot more than described in susceptible individuals for example. I do aknowledge the description of immune resonse they use.

Passive immunisation is not possible with flu vaccines because they change their make up between strains. Passive immunity is short acting with injected sntibodies or immunoglobulins ( the parts that fight icrobes) are broken down by the body. Babies are passively immunized by their mothers in the womb, but this is short acting until they are able to develop their own immunity.

I still suspect some component of the response is simply an increased febrile response including the seizures. The vaccine didn't cause the seizure, the subsequent immune response did. A view also held by a paediatrician we saw for number 1 sons intersusseption after Rotavirus vaccine last week (and which I will let him have again) Febrile seizures are common enough- I see them all the time.

I have faith in an answer being found and hope that the above scientists contribute to a solution.

[2CheekyMonkeys]

stretcher bearer-- does that mean that the vaccine caused the fever BUT the fever caused the seizures?

anybody know if there has been any news about what happend with the little girl who died in brisbane?

[Visitor6]

stretcher bearer-- does that mean that the vaccine caused the fever BUT the fever caused the seizures?

anybody know if there has been any news about what happend with the little girl who died in brisbane?

It's a two stage thing Hollo, the reaction of fever is common inmost vaccinations in infants and toddlers. However what may have happened was an excessively high fever which then can lead to a febrile seizure. So the vaccine may have brought on the bodies response.

We'll have to wait and see though...

From another poster the Little one from Brisbane had other issues and died from other causes.

[JellyBean]

anybody know if there has been any news about what happend with the little girl who died in brisbane?

What wasn't well publicised in the media is that little Ashley (the Brisbane girl who died approx 12 hours after receiving her flu vaccine) was a twin. Her twin received the flu vac at the same time. Both were seriously ill a couple of hours after the vaccine, and both suffered a seizure. Jade died sadly, and thankfully her twin pulled through.
The parents are adamant that the flu vaccine killed their daughter - who they deny had any pre-existing health issues. It is select members of the medical establishment in charge of investigating her case who reported to the media that she died of other causes. The parents are understandably distraught by this and believe her death has been swept under the carpet. They have since been in contact with the AVN (Australian Vaccination Network), whom they have encouraged to help them spread the truth of their experience in order to prevent any other parents or children out there suffering the same fate.

Deepest condolences to the family for their loss.