Need non biased info on swine flu vaccine

[Cassius2]

I think that EVERYBODY needs to look into this themselves rather than rely on advice from strangers on forums. Some vaccines are safe and actually recommended during pregnancy.

i would also like to be informed of these...because i was certain that it was only the swine vax that they were giving out to pg women.

[Cassius2]

Also, i have been looking into studies sponsored by the US National Institutes of Health (NIH) that state that children under 10 (and children at higher risk of complications from the swine flu - like children with compromised immune systems, ie children undergoing chemotherapy etc) may actually need two doses of the 15ml grm vax...

BUT apparently, this is actually on par with results of the normal flu vaccine.

IMO if my child had respiratory issues (or compromised immunity) to begin with i would seriously consider it (even though there is a risk that they might not be covered...cause you'd try anyway!). but like i said earlier i just wouldnt feel comfortable giving to any child under the 6 months of age...and for me that includes those in utero ITMS. BUT this is just my situation and i would never want people to think that i want this taken as gospel to be followed without question IYKWIM.

[lauren22]

Ive had it df has mum dad all my brothers and sisters and their kids.
Im not risking another "Spanish Flu" pandemic in my opinion swine flu and spanish flu are almost identical first strain didnt do much second strain wiped out populations. Thats enough for me to want to get it. None of us had any side affects what so ever.
GL making a decision.

[MantaRay]

Personally I think this is one decision that needs to made carefully. According to the Government we should all immunise our children and any other "at risk" person. However, there is a lot of other reputable information out there to suggest that there are risks with this approach. This vaccine in particular was rushed into circulation and there has been much debate about the standard of testing (or lack thereof) and also the multi-use vials it comes in. Neither of my boys have asthma or other complications, so it is not the same situation, but we have decided that they will not have this vaccine despite the pressure from the government to do so (we have had brochures telling us we should, and where to get it for free from both kindy and school).

[Schmickers]

I think that you will have great difficulty in finding "unbiased" information about the H1N1 vaccine, because all of the information out there comes from the manufacturer of the vaccine. It was certainly rushed into circulation, on the basis that it has been produced in a similar way to the seasonal flu vaccine, and therefore doesn't warrant the same rigorous testing. And also because of the "urgency" of the H1N1 "pandemic".

The Australian Vaccination Network has a bit of information under their Vaxfacts section (look for pandemic influenza) and is probably the only local source of information that highlights potential concerns with the vaccine.

I personally have not had it, and I don't plan too, unless the feared pandemic actually occurs. I actually don't know many colleagues who are planning on having it either.

[Visitor6]

The concern witht the multi use vials was that is contains thimerosal as the preservative.

Single dose prefilled syringes do not as they don't require preservatives.
They are available and the pedi doses are single dose units as far as I was aware.

I've had the vaccine. No dramas. My DP didn't pre and post delivery-her choice and I support it.

[entreat]

Mum wants me to have the SF vax, but I'm certain I had SF last year. We live in a town of 35,000 people and it doesn't take long for everyone to have the same bug, especially when friends of ours were confirmed to have it. DH & I got sick (flu symptoms) at the same time as our friend, so I'm confident we've had it.

Although having it before doesn't negate the chance of having it again, I think it will produce an appropriate immune response this winter, if I get it again.

I am actually pro-vaccinations (most pro-educated choice, but it comes across as pro-vax because I flatly believe most of the anti-vax 'info' is hype, especially when looking at ingredients list!), but I won't be having the SF vax mostly because I think it has been insufficiently tested on pregnant women.

A couple of years ago, I had a 2 day immune response to the regular flu vax & it sucked! I only did it because it was free through work & I wanted to see if it made any impact over the flu season. Now, I think (unless you're elderly, infirm, or do actually need it for other reasons) all flu vaccines are superfluous. I spent 2 days off work because of the vaccine when I may not have even got sick over winter.

*shrug* personal choice, but I would probably ban my mother from my house if she presented me with that attitude. You can't forcably vaccinate someone's kids (related or not!) against the wishes of the parents! so boo to your mum on that account.

[Fleur]

Ok, the emergency health site basically says yes. Do it. Not that much info that I saw.

I'm very comfortable recieving advice from BB. Have been doing it for quite a while now

I was just hoping that some one would know where to get some more detailed info about it & maybe even find out everyone elses reasons for getting it/not getting it.

I have my children vaccinated. But I chose not to have DS vaxed against chicken pox as I really don't see the point. I have thought about it & thats the decision I have come to. Again another one my mum probably doesn't agree with.

I'm looking to make my own informed decision with all the info behind me I can get

Clover like you we also are mostly vaccing, I have thought I won't do the chicken pox vax though.

We got the swine flu note this week & I chucked it out, I am wondering now about getting DS2 done, he has had asthma in years past but it hasn't been an issue the last couple of years. Any colds or flus do tend to become chesty though.
And I worry about DD2 being so young.

I also am still undecided.

I personally have not had it, and I don't plan too, unless the feared pandemic actually occurs. I actually don't know many colleagues who are planning on having it either.

Sounds like it could be a way to go... how long does the body take to produce an immune response? Is the vax likely to run out in the case of a pandemic?

[Cherished]

Hi, I would strongly recommend that you look every where else BUT the government websites and recommendations if you want a non biased view. It is well known that the government is pro vaccination and that is the only information you will get by taking their advice. Check out the Australian Vaccination Network website for more factual reading which is neither pro nor anti vaccination, just plain facts.

Oh I forgot to mention your mum, it is not her place to get your children injected with foreign substances without your consent. If my mother did that to my kids (when I have them) she would never see or speak to any of us ever again

[entreat]

Australian Vaccination Network is not unbiased in the slightest. But as a minor improvement to other anti-vax sites, it describes the diseases in a simple, but acceptable way. Even if it does play down the seriousness of the high-end complications of them. And as typical with anti-vax sites, it references almost exclusively from anti-vax authors & sites. It in no way attempts a critical analysis of the evidence from either side.

I do agree: Educate before you vaccinate, but also educate yourself on the disease, not just the vaccine.

[Schmickers]

I didn't mean to suggest that the AVN was unbiased, merely that it did not share the same bias as the rest of the available literature regarding vaccines. I think if you read up on both the pros (Government information and manufacturer literature) and the cons (awareness networks like the AVN) the truth of the situation lies somewhere in the middle.

[Visitor8]

I know lots of people who have had it, and one thing they all have in common is they all got the flu regular flu after having the vaccination.
If you want unbias info, do not go to gov websites. They will give you the MOST bias info you will find on the internet, because THEY want you to have this vaccination and they don't care about the side effects.

I found this My concerns about the swine flu vaccine - Dr Brett - The Independent Weekly and he brings up some very valid points.

3. Whilst the Government are recommending pregnant women be amongst the first vaccinated, CSL’s own package insert states “It is also not known whether these vaccines can cause foetal harm when administered to a pregnant woman or can affect reproduction capacity”. And “Because many drugs are excreted in human milk, caution should be exercised when Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 ...vaccine is administered to a nursing woman”.

Having read that, pregnant women should not having it. Should we be reminded back to the 50's and 60's where children were born with deformities due to thalidomide?
Thalidomide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Would you like to be going through that again? I say no.

I wont be a lab rat for a vaccine that was rushed in making, and there is no hard or fast proof it works or what the side effects might be. A study of less than 300 people is not a good enough study in my opinion.

I don't think that the government would try to con anyone into having a vaccine that was unsafe.

Well I think you are pulling the wool over your own eyes there.
Just look at the HPV 'cancer vaccination' and how damaging that is. They are marketing this vax as a cancer vax, when in fact it is not. If you look into it you will find out not only does it NOT protect you from cancer, it only covers 3% of strains of HPV.
You will find out that the risks from the vax are higher than the risk of dying from cancer caused by HPV.
You still have to have regular pap smears (and if you were honestly thinking your risk was higher, then have the paps more often).
Also did you know that almost every women will get HPV sometime in their lives and they almost always clear up naturally?
They are marketing this at 9 year olds, the vax is most helpful within 12 months, and wears of roughly within 5 years. So we are giving this to our 9 year old daughters when chances are they aren't sexually active at 10 or even 14. So by the time they ARE sexually active, the vaccine they were given is useless.
There have been deaths from this vaccination, many more than they are saying because a lot can't be linked but just 'happened' to occur just after having the vax.
Then you look at the people who are really ill, like can't move, walk, etc from having it. There is NO cure from these side effects.
I will not have it, and I will tell everyone how bad it is, because in 10 or 20 years we will have the REAL results from this, and I think people will be kind of shocked they put themselves in the line for lab rats in the first place.
So before you trust the gov you should investigate these things off your own back.
http://truthaboutgardasil.org/

FWIW I am not anti vax. My kids are all vaccinated against the normal stuff, bar chicken pox. However they have never had the flu so never a flu vax, they also wont be immunised against swine flu even though they have asthma because IMO it is MUCH too new, and the vast majority of people get better on their own.

[New Dawn]

Ok I havent read any of the replys and dont want to debate anything... I do vacc my winkies but havent gotten the swine flu ones...

MIL is a pead nurse and now works at a doctors clinic, she told us that she wouldnt be getting the vaccine as for her and the some of doctors she is working with dont think it has been tested enough, as it was rushed though the testing faze a little too much for there liking...

so that is why I am not getting this for my winkies but thats my desion..

But the choice is yours, do what you think is right, I know its hard when your mum must think she is doing whats best for her grandkids.. Good luck with whatever you decide

[entreat]

I didn't mean to suggest that the AVN was unbiased, merely that it did not share the same bias as the rest of the available literature regarding vaccines. I think if you read up on both the pros (Government information and manufacturer literature) and the cons (awareness networks like the AVN) the truth of the situation lies somewhere in the middle.

No worries.

It's a very contentious subject & in the end, people will make their own choices on what they think carries the higher risk. I'd just like to see an actual unbiased site that can give us the numbers for both sides! The AVN is way better than most sites, but still, none of their references are dated in the last 10 years (medicine & studies on medicine have come a long way in 10 years), and some even go back to the 1920s!

Has anyone else noticed that the northern hemisphere is in winter/flu season now & we don't hear peep about swine flu? IMO it's because it's no where near as bad as the original hype made it out to be. I wouldn't vax against regular flus, so I'm not going to start with a piggy one.

[Schmickers]

The AVN is way better than most sites, but still, none of their references are dated in the last 10 years (medicine & studies on medicine have come a long way in 10 years), and some even go back to the 1920s!

In the 1920s, vaccine technology was in its infancy, and viable research was being conducted to determine their efficacy and safety. Sadly, since those original studies focused on early and serious side effects, and found that vaccines were safe (compared to the diseases they were designed to treat), and since government has picked up on the message that prevention is cost effective, and since vaccine manufacturers have realised that governments are willing to spend a lot on cost effectiveness, research into long term side effects, or the relationship between vaccines and diseases that were unknown in the 1920s (such as autism) is difficult to conduct.

Research is also more expensive now, meaning it relies on contributions from large corporate sponsors (usually the same company that manufactures and markets the vaccine).

I'm not going to lie - there have been some fairly significant study done on the more common vaccines that have proved - at least, as far as the researchers are concerned - that they are safe. But look to the Gardasil controversy as a contemporary example of why the anti-vaccination lobby's concerns have valid grounds - Gardasil was tested by the manufacturer and found to be safe, "fast-tracked" through FDA approval in the US and onto the market, and 12 motnhs later, adverse events data was found to be remarkably different to what was found in research. The first generation rotavirus vaccine was taken from the market under very similar circumstances.

I don't think the anti-vaccination lobby are ever going to get their "smoking gun" - I think the link between vaccines and modern diseases such as autism, and other allergy-mediated disorders, is multi-factorial, and research doesn't necessarily deal well with conditions that aren't clearly linked. But I think they have valid grounds to be concerned, and as long as networks like the AVN are willing to speak out, I think they have value as an alternative viewpoint, if nothing else.

[Cherished]

Australian Vaccination Network is not unbiased in the slightest.

The AVN is 'pro choice'

[Cassius2]

yeah my MIL is a paediatrician in italy and they do not offer swine flu or normal flu vax to kids over there as it is considered non-effective overall as the normal flu (for example) changes so much that the vax can only protect against one type of strain, and she mentioned that the swine flu one is the same for that regard. again, i guess it is just about weighing up individual risk vs the vaccine vs the possibility of getting the virus ITMS. i would be very concerned if i had an auto-immune problem and probably would look into getting it (if I was advised to be safe by my care provider) but otherwise, being in optimal health (knock on wood LOL!) i am not bothering.

[Visitor6]

Can we leave the Gardasil monologues for another thread?

Not every government professional ie every public hospital medical professional is pushing a government cart. It can difficult to sort through biased opinions sites that appear to be your friend (from either end of the spectrum ) turn out to be antsy should speak against their platform.

Oh and you can't get the flu from flu vaccines- how long will this old chestnut drag on?