Scientific Link to Autism Identified

[Mum2SweetCs]

I have been following this thread closely as it is a really good reading both sides of the argument.

Throughout this thread I have seen one thing in common with all you ladies, either you choose to vaccinate or not, the fact is you are trying to prevent you children from suffering.

I am not a scientist, nor someone who has been personally affected by autism but I am a mother and being a monther I would never ever ever wish the slightest wound on my DD, let alone life long suffering.

Huge to all you ladies and please don't get upset over each other as the world would be so boring if we all agreed!

sorry my two cents worth.

[entreat]

wow - I swear that's the best thing posted so far.

[Fleur]

Mum2OneSweetBun...

I just want to say, as someone who has never had the benefit of this kind of discussion before... I really value the fact that I can come on here and read all of this.

My children are vacced becasue I did not know any different.

Now I am not saying whether I regret that or not, or whether or not I would choose differently after reading all this.

BUT it is a wonderful thing to have a forum like this where I can come & hear different opinions & experiences...it's what it's all about, isn't it?

I don't have to agree with you to find your opinion interesting & valid...the world would be a much poorer place if we were all the same & thought & said the same....

Thank you to everyone who has shared their stories & experiences.

[murraysmum]

my murray is fully vacinated but i dont think the vacine contributed to his autisim
but i have exspressed the vacne debate with my pead and he said with this bub if im concnered or confused to come in and call and he will talk me through it

i understand with measels and mumps but if a vacine is going to make him worse ild like to know before hand so i can deal with it

we all have diffrent opnions as some of us a bit more passionate as we live with it daily

and reading what u wrote brang a tear to my eye christy its so true

[Traveller]

I have been following this thread from the beginning and would like to share a little of my reasoning behind me decisions with regards to vaccinations.

With DS1 I fully vaccinated. Everything that was on offer, so great was my belief in the medical line. I thought that parents who did not vaccinate were putting their children at unneccesary risk, and also putting other children at higher risk.

DS1 never reacted to any vaccination in a negative way. A few weeks after the MMR my best friend's son got chickenpox so I asked my GP if DS1 could be vaccinated straight away, and he agreed. At this point my son was talking normally for a 15 month old, gave eye contact, went to strangers happily, smiled constantly, etc.

That all changed within a few weeks. By 20 months his speech was enough of a concern that his hearing was extensivly tested but my GP was confident he was not autistic. By 2 years we were using sign language. By 2 years and 4 months all eye contact had stopped, he stopped any speech (could not even say Mum, Dad, Baby, etc, words he had said frequently at 15 months)

I did not blame this on vaccines, I thought he was maybe autistic but we had no proof as the GP was confused by the fact at 20 months he still interacted with his baby brother and had said definitively "not autistic".

For a completely different reason (his knees) we took him to see a chiropractor. After a few visits, and being held by his dad, he finally allowed her to make one small adjustment on his neck (she could not treat his hips, he would not let her and kept screaming). Within 10 minutes he said "Dad". Within a week he spoke a sentence. Within a month he looked me in the eye and told me he loved me.

What has that got to done with vaccines? Possibly nothing, but my chiropractor explained to me that the toxins in vaccines can sometimes make the body react like this. I do not believe vaccines cause autism, I do believe however that they can make the body shut down in certain ways, like any other drug. I think this reactions is often confused with autism, which has existed for as long as humans have.

DS2 was fully vaccinated except for the varicella, because as an educated woman I have decided I would rather take the risk of the disease. My twins have only had the 5 in 1 (whooping cough, polio, tetanus, etc). My GP is refusing to give them any other vaccine because I did not give everything that was recommended when it was recommended. I want my children vaccinated with most vaccines but one jab at a time please and only when they are bigger, stronger, and more able to deal with the side effects. Does this make me a terrible parent? Some might say so.

FWIW I keep them away from my friend's daughter, who has a compromised immune system.

I am not telling this story as another vaccination anecdote, more a plea to those of you who think we should all vaccinate because we are told to, to try and understand why parents choose not to vaccinate. I feel sick when there are measles outbreaks, I fight with myself constantly over my decisions. The decision to partially vaccinate and delay vaccination is, IMHO, a much harder one to make than the decision to vaccinate. I wish so much I could go back to a much simpler time when I believed everything like Tenar does, but life has taken me a different route and all I ask is that I am respected as a parent to make my decisions myself.

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

I've been thinking about this thread all flamin day! One thing had me wondering - someone said to only trust scientific evidence, not anecdotal stories. But, why would scientists do test on things just randomly? Wouldn't they test in response to a large group of people concerned about the same thing?

So, while anecdotal evidence may not be 100% trustworthy, surely it has its place?

[Nelle]

So Traveller - are you saying that the chiropractor sorted out your son's issues? How is he now?

[Traveller]

So Traveller - are you saying that the chiropractor sorted out your son's issues? How is he now?

He is now a very communicative, intelligent, articulate 5 year old. One of the top in his class, in fact. The change in him since he saw a chiropractor was extreme. I do not believe though that she cured autism, but she certainly helped break down the barriers he had which were causing autistic traits.

[Inanna]

Traveller thankyou for sharing your painful story.
I understand the courage it takes to stand up and say no... It's really tough in the face of "scientific fact"...

I have heard stories such as your own before - & it interests me greatly. However, interestingly these "scientists" poo poo it all as "coincidence" "nervous mother" etc etc...

I know a woman in the town in which I live who has a son who had a similar reaction to a vaccine & she used craniosacral therapies, chiropractic and something else that I cannot remember right now... I will remember & come back. However, she has had amazing changes with her son. So much so that they have moved away & are travelling around Aust.

There is much we don't know - there is much that we dont understand. To believe that a scientific test or study gives all the answers is in my humble opinion extremely flawed - to say the very least in the very nicest way!

[Mummato2]

Throughout this thread I have seen one thing in common with all you ladies, either you choose to vaccinate or not, the fact is you are trying to prevent you children from suffering.

I am not a scientist, nor someone who has been personally affected by autism but I am a mother and being a monther I would never ever ever wish the slightest wound on my DD, let alone life long suffering.

You know - that just summed it up beautifully.

I won't lie - the decision not to vaccinate my children is something that I live with every day and I have to ask myself what I would do if something happened to my children if I don't vaccinate and what would happen if I willingly took them to get vaccinated and they had an adverse reaction.

Bottom line is I made the decision that I wasn't 100% comfortable with - but more comfortable then the other alternative.....iykwim?

I just want what's best for my babies. Cooper was a 4.5 year "try" and we then went onto have 4 losses before being blessed with my daughter. I will do anything to protect them and stop them coming into harms way - and the best way I can do that is by taking chances with nature (natural Chicken Pox, Measles, Rubella, Mumps etc)

Someone else asked what the statistic was for a childhood disease to turn bad - well it's around a 1 in 300 000 (averaged out across the disease and is variable so that's a rough stat).......risk of vaccine reaction/injury/side effect is around 1 in 5 depending on the vaccine. I have to ask myself if there's a 1 in 5 reaction stat - what else is happening under the surface that I can't see?.....I know where I'd rather take my risk.

Anyway, whether the choice is to vax or not, three things are clear for me. 1) The group of parents that aren't vaccinating are in turn making medical science sit up and find out why, therefore forcing them to continue to research and evolve the technology. 2) The group who vaccinate are doing what they think is best for their children and that is all that can be asked 3) As parents no matter what choice you make, it's heart wrenching and no one has the right to attack another parent's choice

[Inanna]

Mumma2two you have said it with such eloquence & you mirror my own feelings also.

Imogen was born after losing 6 babies. She was born at 27+5 weeks & it is a miracle that she is asleep on my bed right now. I would do nothing to risk her health or wellbeing. From my research, education, experience and gut instinct the risk to immunise her outweighed the risk of her contracting the illness.

FWIW apart from DD14 my children haven't had a vaccine in their bodies. Not one of them has had Measles, rubella, mumps, chiclen pox, tetanus... None - whilst so many of their vaccinated friends have! It stuns me.. Overwhelmingly at the school they attend the children are largely unimmunised. There have been in the 5 years my kids have been at the school the odd outbreak of measles and chicken pox... However, it was contained to a few kids...
However, down the road at the state school where they have a higher immunisation rate the school came close to closing down for a time due to a measles "epidemic"...

It interests me why this is so? Why the unimunised are seemingly not as affected as the immunised.. Could it be that their immune systems have been damaged by the onslaught of ingredients in the vaccines they received? Could it be that some of us have "sturdier" immune systems than others (of course they do!) and therefore have less resilience???

[Mummato2]

It interests me why this is so? Why the unimunised are seemingly not as affected as the immunised.. Could it be that their immune systems have been damaged by the onslaught of ingredients in the vaccines they received? Could it be that some of us have "sturdier" immune systems than others (of course they do!) and therefore have less resilience???

Ok I'm going to preface this with "I have a theory and I am no scientist"

I think that when you introduce a vaccination into a child's system you are triggering the bodies internal memory to remember that particular disease. If the child comes into contact with the disease they were vaccinated against, the body essentially recognises it and has a weakened ability to fight it (severity level? - not sure I guess it'll depend on the child)

But I think that when a foreign particle comes into the body that the immune system has never ever met, the immune system thinks "don't know you - FIGHT" and kids just have a better way of dealing with it before they get to the infection stage......

See this is why it floors me that some people just have a natural immunity to certain things.

Like I said, this is by no way scientific - just a thought from my own uneducated mind

ETA - I am so so sorry to hear of your losses. They are devastating - but after going through that, don't you just look at your baby and think "wow I did it". What a blessed little angel to have a mumma like you xxx

[~Saram~]

Wow this thread really has taken some twisty turns in the past few days!

I too am a scientist, I have a degree in applied science majoring in biotechnology and microbiology. I was begining my masters in genetic therapies when I fell pregnant with DS. I am now a teacher and almost have my masters in education so I would not consider myself in ill-educated person. I do believe I have the skills to critically analyse information in particular papers which claim to be scienfitically valid. However I am also a mum who in the past 7 years has learnt that my instincts have provided me with just as much as my brain. I also believe strongly in the ancedotal evidence as it is just that - evidence! As a previous poster has said, scientific enquiry is driven by a suspecion that something is going on.

On a personal level, not a day goes by when I don't agonise over my decision to not vaccinate my DD. Last time there was a measles outbreak my gut churned everytime we went out of the house. I accept that my decision places my daughter at risk of catching communicable diseases and their is not a family out there who chooses not to immunise (as opposed to those who just don't) that doesn't know that the risk exists. Having said that, in the case of mealses, mumps and rubella (as this was the vaccination originally discussed) the risk that my child will develope one of these diseases (two of which I survived quite fine - after being immunised twice) and may be the 1 in 100 000 or 500 000 that developes a fatal or life altering consequence of this disease is a much more distant risk than the risk of watching her - my beautiful, communicative, expressive, hugs me at night, makes facial expressions, knows how to play with toys, takes my face in her hands and says "love you mummy" almost three year old disappear into the same world where my gorgeous son lives is a much bigger risk.

Do I think others should vaccinate? thankfully that is not my decision to make. I do know that 7 years ago based on the information I had I choose to vaccinate my son and was very happy with my decision. Do I think vac caused his autism - no! Xander was different from the womb, did they aggrevate the situation - HELL yes! The month proceeding his 4y shots still give me nightmares. He kicked and punched me, rocked, flapped, tried to scratch the vaccine out of his arm, screamed and screamed and screamed - for over 4wks! it was after that that we agreed to go and see a Dr as things were out of control. Xander was different from birth but he has never again been the boy he was before the vaccinations. Occassionaly we get glimpses where, although he is still engrossed in his own discussion, he is looking at me, speaking clearly - participating in a conversation, but mainly he is locked in his own world talking endlessly about digimon or pokemon. He is agitated by change and he is overwhelmed by sensory info - you might find him rocking in the supermarket trolly playing his DS, or madly running in circles in the backyard, or jumping endlessly on the tramp. He is updet as he gets in trouble at school for calling out and talking to loudly. He has no friends becasue he doesn't understand personal space, hugs too tight, licks things and doesn't understand the rules of the games. He gets kicked and beaten up at school because when he couldn't find a chair he didn't know what to do. He bangs his head and tells me he hates himself because he can't stop and he doesn't want to be bad. And I have nothing to offer him, to make him better. Give me chicken pox any day

[Mummato2]

Wow this thread really has taken some twisty turns in the past few days!

I too am a scientist, I have a degree in applied science majoring in biotechnology and microbiology. I was begining my masters in genetic therapies when I fell pregnant with DS. I am now a teacher and almost have my masters in education so I would not consider myself in ill-educated person. I do believe I have the skills to critically analyse information in particular papers which claim to be scienfitically valid. However I am also a mum who in the past 7 years has learnt that my instincts have provided me with just as much as my brain. I also believe strongly in the ancedotal evidence as it is just that - evidence! As a previous poster has said, scientific enquiry is driven by a suspecion that something is going on.

On a personal level, not a day goes by when I don't agonise over my decision to not vaccinate my DD. Last time there was a measles outbreak my gut churned everytime we went out of the house. I accept that my decision places my daughter at risk of catching communicable diseases and their is not a family out there who chooses not to immunise (as opposed to those who just don't) that doesn't know that the risk exists. Having said that, in the case of mealses, mumps and rubella (as this was the vaccination originally discussed) the risk that my child will develope one of these diseases (two of which I survived quite fine - after being immunised twice) and may be the 1 in 100 000 or 500 000 that developes a fatal or life altering consequence of this disease is a much more distant risk than the risk of watching her - my beautiful, communicative, expressive, hugs me at night, makes facial expressions, knows how to play with toys, takes my face in her hands and says "love you mummy" almost three year old disappear into the same world where my gorgeous son lives is a much bigger risk.

Do I think others should vaccinate? thankfully that is not my decision to make. I do know that 7 years ago based on the information I had I choose to vaccinate my son and was very happy with my decision. Do I think vac caused his autism - no! Xander was different from the womb, did they aggrevate the situation - HELL yes! The month proceeding his 4y shots still give me nightmares. He kicked and punched me, rocked, flapped, tried to scratch the vaccine out of his arm, screamed and screamed and screamed - for over 4wks! it was after that that we agreed to go and see a Dr as things were out of control. Xander was different from birth but he has never again been the boy he was before the vaccinations. Occassionaly we get glimpses where, although he is still engrossed in his own discussion, he is looking at me, speaking clearly - participating in a conversation, but mainly he is locked in his own world talking endlessly about digimon or pokemon. He is agitated by change and he is overwhelmed by sensory info - you might find him rocking in the supermarket trolly playing his DS, or madly running in circles in the backyard, or jumping endlessly on the tramp. He is updet as he gets in trouble at school for calling out and talking to loudly. He has no friends becasue he doesn't understand personal space, hugs too tight, licks things and doesn't understand the rules of the games. He gets kicked and beaten up at school because when he couldn't find a chair he didn't know what to do. He bangs his head and tells me he hates himself because he can't stop and he doesn't want to be bad. And I have nothing to offer him, to make him better. Give me chicken pox any day

Thank you SO MUCH for sharing this experience. I am so so sorry that your beautiful boy lives with a life of frustration and pain

[maz]

Sarah hon.... Im sitting here crying cause what you described sounds exactly like W. He was different from to time he was in my warm belly. I use to comment to Jed and my family that I felt like something wasnt right

The other thing people dont consider with it is that we become our childrens voices...we take on 2 lives and in the process come across as aggressive, intimidating and negetive when really we are distraight, worn out from worry and stress and saddened that people dont see the child that we do. I'll second having chicken pox to then.

Jed and I have been talking about this today...and we are going to go through our notes and see were the distructive phases were in his life to date and if they add up with when he recieved his immunisations.

Why do we all have to live so far away from each other at times like this

[Inanna]

Sarah thankyou darling woman for sharing Zanders story... It is similar to my experience with Ruby - though she has not got autisim she is aspy. I wonder if this is due sometimes to the fact that I delayed her immunisations... I immunised her as I felt it was my "community" responsibility - now with my other children my responsibility first rests with them.

I am glad you clarified for those who do not already know how you are the antithesis of ill informed.
Life experience, gut instinct and colloquial evidence plays a big part in the decisions we make...