Universal vaccination could save 60million + lives per year!

[Schmickers]

You know, seriously - Lime makes a good point.

I understand that mass vaccination programs would statistically prevent 60 million deaths a year, but before I would really throw my support behind them, I would have to see how many deaths a year are attributable to poor quality drinking water or famine - I would imagine basded on my knowledge of the third world condition that this would be much higher. And death from gastro that results from contaminated water is in many ways much more of a certainty than the risk of death from a vaccine preventable disease such as measles.

[Phteven]

I agree that over-population is of major concern but I don't really see why the people of developing nations should be sacrificed to disease in the name of population control.
Some people argue that if the world's resources were distributed equitably we would all have enough to survive. I'm not sure what the real figures are and I'm guessing that most of us (including me) would be resistant to such a hefty downsize in lifestyle.

[RockinSAHD]

You know, seriously - Lime makes a good point.

I understand that mass vaccination programs would statistically prevent 60 million deaths a year, but before I would really throw my support behind them, I would have to see how many deaths a year are attributable to poor quality drinking water or famine - I would imagine basded on my knowledge of the third world condition that this would be much higher. And death from gastro that results from contaminated water is in many ways much more of a certainty than the risk of death from a vaccine preventable disease such as measles.

Are you saying that the money could be better spent on existing programs? A good point but having been involved in improving water quality on the ground in Africa I can say that its a very expensive and complicated proposition. The lives could be saved by relatively inexpensive vaccination programs. Disease cripples communities, it doesn't control populations, family planning and education do that and enrich peoples lives along the way.

[RockinSAHD]

Are you saying that the money could be better spent on existing programs? A good point but having been involved in improving water quality on the ground in Africa I can say that its a very expensive and complicated proposition.

Food and water programs are complicated and involve logistic and cultural problems (and big, big $'s), not that I'm against them at all, sustainable programs are the only way forward really but it takes healthy bodies to dig wells.

The link in the OP lists vaccinations common in first world countries that prevent diseases that cause millions of deaths in other countries regardless of expensive and inefficient food/water programs.

[BellyBelly]

I think clean healthy water (and food) is a basic human need (note: priority) for every single person and every single person deserves that. Not vaccinations. Gates has poured so much money into programs to vaccinate these people, why doesnt he put it towards that instead? Because he has a vested interest and shares/ownership in companies making the vaccines.

[Yeddi]

Word Kelly.

Here's you vaccination to go with your brown water and those herbs you use to give your dirt cakes some flavour! It's like trying to put out a grass fire with a bucket while someone stands at the end of the field with a flame thrower.

[RockinSAHD]

I think clean healthy water (and food) is a basic human need (note: priority) for every single person and every single person deserves that. Not vaccinations. Gates has poured so much money into programs to vaccinate these people, why doesnt he put it towards that instead? Because he has a vested interest and shares/ownership in companies making the vaccines.

Thats terrible, he gets to save lives and keep some of his money that he gave away. Sounds like a good deal to me!

Ouch, Yeddi! I haven't seen anyone eating dirtcakes in third world countries personally, I've seen the brown water though, I would love to know the miracle that Gates should've invested in...

In India there's a massive engineering scheme to drill wells for villages, only problem is the water table is dropping so for every well they sink another dries up. What would you do?

[lozzy_mac]

I work in a research institute on the same floor as a group that is dedicated to finding a vaccination for tuberculosis. I really wish some of you could meet these people and see the passion that they have for reducing human suffering. They are not out to make money at all.

I totally agree that there are MANY MANY issues of social justice that desperately need addressing. Tonight I was at an event listening to some former child soldiers from Uganda. What a challenge to meet the needs in that country. Totally onboard with Onyx's point- how much are we willing to sacrifice to see things change. Yes governments need to take action but so do we all.

In terms of what is a better use of money- disease control or food and water? well I think they are all crucial. This money all comes from different places from people with different passions- lets welcome any program that reduces suffering in developing nations.

[BellyBelly]

He's involved in technologies which vaccinate people without them even knowing, and in foods etc. Uninformed consent. Reeks of law suits to me. Nanotechnology vaccinations.....pffft.

http://www.naturalnews.com/028887_va...ill_Gates.html

[BellyBelly]

YouTube - Bill Gates Admits Vaccines Are Used for Human Depopulation

[Yeddi]

Ouch, Yeddi! I haven't seen anyone eating dirtcakes in third world countries personally

Haiti: Mud cakes become staple diet as cost of food soars beyond a family's reach | World news | The Guardian

What would you do?

Based on the idea that there wouldn't be any warlords or other similar factions coming in to destroy it all...

We do live in the 21st century. We have access to new and improving technology, it's time to invest in those instead of falling back into options that are archaic and don't serve the current circumstances (i.e. the manual digging of wells). Wells serve as a good stop gap measure to provide water while other infrastructure is built, but they shouldn't be the goal.

These are goals that would actually make a difference:
Third World water solutions sought
Desert Agriculture and Agroforestry | Mission 2014: Feeding the World
Growfish News Article - Israelis helping to perfect fish farming in the desert - Israel - Aug 27, 2002

That's just to start with. Even if vaccines were 100% effective on 100% of people given them (which we know they're not, even you can't say they work all of the time) that still only protects the immediate population. Infrastructure provides for the immediate as well as future populations - a much better way of spending.

[RockinSAHD]

We do live in the 21st century. We have access to new and improving technology, it's time to invest in those instead of falling back into options that are archaic and don't serve the current circumstances (i.e. the manual digging of wells). Wells serve as a good stop gap measure to provide water while other infrastructure is built, but they shouldn't be the goal.

That's just to start with. Even if vaccines were 100% effective on 100% of people given them (which we know they're not, even you can't say they work all of the time) that still only protects the immediate population. Infrastructure provides for the immediate as well as future populations - a much better way of spending.

Thanks for the links Yeddi, there are many ways to sterilise water and many have been tried (some have even worked) but most fall down. I hear Nepal has had a lot of luck using large scale UV sterilsation too, I used a handheld UV steriliser when I lived in Uganda and I didn't get sick but the unit was expensive, sensitive and power hungry. Filtration as mentioned in the article is slow, energy intensive and somewhat ineffective. There is no easy solution and not much money available unfortunately. Even agriculture projects are tricky as people are biased and stuck in their ideas.

Vaccines are comparatively cheap and effective but if you want to talk about a legacy for future generations; how about wiping out preventable disease? Thats the goal of universal vaccination. Despite vaccines not being 100% effective as your quick to point out, the goal of vaccination is to eradicate disease not make short term gains.

Just out of interest though, if I did have a few billion dollars hanging about then I'd probably invest in mosquito nets and mosquito eradication...


Thanks for the hot tip Keike! It may amaze you to find that I do actually post on other parts of the forum regularly!
It will amaze you even more to know that I'm not a vaccination nut IRL and actually rarely think about vaccination!