I think it's a bit iffy to suggest that non-vaxers rely on herd immunity, and I know you weren't meaning to be offensive or to get people offside, but I think that you would be very, very hard pressed to find anyone who is against vaccinations/doesn't vax that has made that decision based on herd immunity, so to suggest it in the first place is kinda pointless.
For us, I honestly don't know. Like someone else said, it is about risk assessment. If I lived in another country, even one where measles was still the 'norm' I would probably still not vaccinate for that, preferring instead that they got a natural immunity from having had it. That would be so long as my current situation was still the same - access to clean drinking water, food etc and overall general health was as great as it is now and the outcome from having it would be the same or similar if they were to contract it while in this country. Just to point out though that your hypothetical vaccinated child in a different country can still contract it as well, just as they can in this country. The only one I would do would be hep B.
What Lime and Trill said. Has any of your reading material come from BB? I've never met anybody who non vaccs for herd immunity and I've never read it here.
There are about 8000 better reasons not to than that, did you come across any of them in your reading?
Pretty well my only reading about vaccination has come from BB (though I have often floowed links to papers or related sites).
Trillian I am not suggesting that herd immunity is the only reason to not vax, but if someone would not vax in Australia but would in a country where the disease is prevalent then that appears to be a decision based on reliance on herd immunity, in the way that Heaven's appears to have been. As you would still not vax in such circumstances but instead rely on natural immunity, then your decision isn't. I'm not casting nasturiums () on a decision to not vax based on herd immunity, I am just curious to what extent people see it as a valid reason.
Limeslice, my understand that the concept of herd immunity (which I admit is from wikipedia only LOL!) is that it doesn't mean 100% but rather a lower % (I think for most diseases it is around 85%.
I am not attacking or questioning other reasoning on not vaccinating, but specifically the extent to which a herd immunity concept plays a part in decision making As I said in my OP, "if this is the reason behind non-vaccination, the non-vaxer is reliying on "herd immunity" which may eventually be reduced if great enough members of the "herd" were to also stop vaccinating" (with the emphasis on "if").
Personally, in so far as a belief in herd immunity, I think it is a very common misconception. The only true time herd immunity can exist ime is when you have a populationwho have been naturally exposed and/or infected with the natural virus and have overcome it, developed their antibodies naturally, and are therefor immune.
The notion of "reduced" risk is negligiable really - and this small percentage reduction when weighed against the ACTUAL infection risk rates, the ACTUAL serious injury/death from ACTUAL infection rates, and the risk of serious injury/death/toxicity from the vaccine itself, is totally negated.
The opportunity cost of vaccinating is so far and away greater than that of not vaccinating, even taking into consideration any reduced risk of infection.
ETA:
I should also add the caveat that I do not believe that naturally immunity is 100% 100% of the time either - I had chicken pox 4 times as a child/teen in varying degrees of severity.
herd immunity doesnt come into it at all for me...and other non vaccinators that i know.
Im simply not prepared to put a heap of crap into a tiny body that may not react well to it....its that simple.
I had my two older children vaccinated when they were older (7&10) and I will get my 3 year old done in a few more years probably around the same age...although i will be choosey in which vaccines i will give her. I wont give my girls the cervical cancer vaccine for instance and I wont give her 3 injections in one hit.
Its about safety for me. If i was in a society with a lot of disease, i would use the same alternatives that i used when my kids were little...natural homeopathic immunization.
I'm the first to admit that I haven't done much reading on this so no doubt I have missed lots of reasons, but the one reason that has stuck as a non-vaxxing reason is the fact that these diseases are not prevalent (now) which some would argue is because the majority has been vaccinated.
So, I'm subscribing because I'm interested to learn more.
And because I currently have a dilemma re the swine flu vaccine so the whole vaccination thing is particularly interesting to me at this point.
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) on a decision to not vax based on herd immunity, I am just curious to what extent people see it as a valid reason.
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