thread: Should c/s rates be published? Naming & shaming...

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  1. #1
    BellyBelly Life Subscriber
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    Sep 2004
    Melb - where my coolness isn't seen as wierdness
    4,361

    I can't understand why time after time women are coming into this thread and saying that by asking hospitals to be accountable for the amount of c/s they do above and beyond what is acceptable is somehow an attack on their choices?

    If you had a c/s out of choice, great for you, no one is attacking your right to choose. If you had an emergency c/s, well it really wasn't a choice, was it?

    The TRUTH is, many women is coerced into a c/s they wouldn't normally need. We see it here on BB ALL THE TIME. Your baby is too big. You'll put your baby in danger if you have a VBAC. Your pelvis is too small. You're too overdue. You're high risk. There are too many stories where mothers are made to feel like they're putting themselves and their babies at risk by not listening to what their doctors say. Please don't pretend it's not true, because we all know that it is. Yet if you scratch the surface on the majority of these cases, none of those reasons are valid!

    I had a Dr who said he was low intervention, and even he suggested at 39w that I should have a c/s, simply because I was complaining I was over it all. If I were a new mum, who had never given birth vaginally before, imagine how good that would have sounded?

    And let's not ignore the fact that in my antenatal class, 8 out of 10 women were planning a c/s, variously because they believed it would be 'safer' for their babies, or they'd been told their babies were too big, or they were told that a c/s would be less painful. Why is it that that sort of information is perpetuated day after day after day, yet we as women think it's okay for us not to be informed about it?

    My sister gave birth to 2 children vaginally in Singapore, then was told by her Australian ob that her pelvis was too small to deliver her 3rd baby. So she had a c/s ('elective' it said on her forms) and guess what? Her baby was not so big after all that she couldn't have delivered her naturally. My sister is hugely upset that she was scared into making a decision that was incorrect in the end. Again her story is NOT isolated. Women here on BB get it all the time, too. So imagine how many women are being told fibs like that out there.

    If you don't care about whether your hospital performs far more c/s then necessary, I think it's your prepogative to ignore any stats they're asked to divulge. If, however, you WOULD like to know how your hospital compares to other hospitals, I think you should have a right to know. I would want to know, so why shouldn't I have access to that sort of information?
    Last edited by sushee; November 21st, 2008 at 08:25 AM.

  2. #2
    ♥ BellyBelly's Creator ♥
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    Feb 2003
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia, Australia
    8,982

    I don't think many are reading anyone else's posts or responses Sush... everyone is coming in with their experiences and thats it.
    Kelly xx

    Creator of BellyBelly.com.au, doula, writer and mother of three amazing children
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  3. #3

    Dec 2005
    not with crazy people
    8,023

    I don't think many are reading anyone else's posts or responses Sush... everyone is coming in with their experiences and thats it.
    here here ....many people arent thinking outside the box....

  4. #4
    paradise lost Guest

    From some of the responses i don't even think people are reading the FIRST post!

    Jodi, i have more questions (which you absolutely needn't answer if you don't wish to):
    Was your labour artificially augmented (drip or gels or AROM)?
    What position did you push in?
    What, if any, pain relief did you use?

    Bx

  5. #5
    Registered User

    Oct 2007
    NE Adelaide, South Australia
    5

    From some of the responses i don't even think people are reading the FIRST post!

    Jodi, i have more questions (which you absolutely needn't answer if you don't wish to):
    Was your labour artificially augmented (drip or gels or AROM)?
    What position did you push in?
    What, if any, pain relief did you use?

    Bx
    No I laboured naturally. The position I was pushing in was laying on my back. I didn't have any pain relief until the epidural. They were going to try a forceps delivery but on the way to the operating room Johanna backed up and went breech after being on the verge of crowning . The staff said that this was the first time a baby had actually done what she had done.

    Jodi

  6. #6
    paradise lost Guest

    Thanks for that Jodi! I know a mw who has a pic of a little boy who has the internal monitor clip screwed firmly into his buttock - he was born head down, so did the reverse move to your DD during labour!

    Bx

  7. #7
    Registered User

    Aug 2007
    Perth
    425

    I definately think these figures should be available to women but shaming come on!!!
    I really think as a country we need to start taking some responsibility for ourselves it becomes way to easy to play the blame game eg Mcdonalds is causing obesity! We are an educated race of people, we need to go into our births as we would any major event in our lives, well informed and aware of all the outcomes. The only person i blame for my 1st birth is myself i went in and handed my body over to the hospital, if i'd done my homework i would have known better.
    I cant help to notice also that all the women on here who have had CS feel they have to "explain" WHY they had a CS (which i am finding myself at the moment with the looming posibility of an elective CS) i think articles like "naming and shaming" cant help but to make women feel like they have to explain why they arent birthing naturally.
    I think the days of CS being conceived as a wonderful, painless, easy way "out" were well in truly but to bed in the 80's, that is not the perception of anyone i know.

  8. #8
    Registered User

    Apr 2007
    Somewhere here and there.....
    483

    I would be curious to find out how many women had unnecessary c sections but were told they had no choice. I was told my baby was 'stuck' and had an emergency c section and forceps to pull my baby back out (he was too low I was told). Also my labour had stopped. I was given two bags of Syntocin and had no idea till after DS was here that the drug was most probably the reason labour had halted. I feel I trusted my OB too much, I took everything that was said as gospel truth. Homebirth for us next time round.

  9. #9
    Administrator
    Add Rouge on Facebook

    Jun 2003
    Ubiquity
    9,922

    Absolute RIPPER of a post Sush! I agree wholeheartedly.

    Information should be made available. Simple as that. Its up to a woman to choose. But just because one half of the population believes their c/s is valid doesn't mean that the other half shouldn't be entitled to that information. I don't necessarily believe that every ob or every hospital is pro c/s but I think that there are plenty of situations where women haven't been informed enough. And try and remember just because you had a good experience doesn't mean everyone will, shouldn't others be allowed to make the decision for themselves and not just because a few people are happy with the current climate.

  10. #10
    Registered User

    Jul 2005
    Rural NSW
    6,975

    I don't think many are reading anyone else's posts or responses Sush... everyone is coming in with their experiences and thats it.

    I agree Kelly. I worry about a society that can't see past the "my, mine, I". I fail to see how describing a personal account applies to this discussion... we are not talking about individual situations... this is a thread about information for ALL women. To be honest i'm skimming over the personal accounts of emergency c/sections... they are totally off topic.

    Hoobley, Sush, Maz, Mayaness, Wintergreen, great contributions I have to share the love for some of you but I'll come back to your posts when i can.

    One thing Wintergreen said has really stuck with me: the notion that giving birth is not like having a tooth pulled in a dentist's chair... it's more like driving a car. Great analogy. I wish more women could see it that way as well. A great way to illustrate that one is a passive experience (tooth pulling) and the other (birth) should be an active experience. Get your "baby on board" car sticker and put it on your bellies.

    Sometimes the riskiest attitude is the "ok how can I get this baby extracted with the minimum of pain" one. Pain doesn't have to be feared... athletes (eg marathon runners) embrace pain as a means toward an end. I think that many OB's take advantage of a woman's fear as they coerce them into unnecessary c/sections. That really needs to stop. If c/section stats were published and made easily accessible it might be more likely to stop.

  11. #11
    Registered User

    Jan 2007
    East Kurrajong
    522

    oh gee its getting ugly in here.

    all personal opinions about weather someone should or should not choose a c/sect or if its rushed into or even necessary or just wanted.
    I'm still not convinced that these stats should be published (or shamed) just ask your OB or the hospital what their opinions on C/sects are. people can access this information if they want it.

    and FYI my ob didn't want to do a c/sect for DS1 i begged for it and also made them book me in for number DS2&3 aswell.

  12. #12
    BellyBelly Life Subscriber
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    Sep 2004
    Melb - where my coolness isn't seen as wierdness
    4,361

    Or the stats could be published and the people who don't want to know don't have to read it, and the people who do want to know can find it easily.

    Because I don't think hospitals or obs will generally admit to favouring c/s. Nether of mine did, and yet the hospital I went to had a high c/s rate, as did my ob for someone who said he was pro-VB. Stats don't lie.

  13. #13

    Dec 2005
    not with crazy people
    8,023

    Here's one for you girls

    I have a g/f that is over due...she was due last monday....she has the docotor at the hospital PUSHING her into a c/s because her first 18 year old son was...dont worry about the fact that her 2 children afterwards were VBACS.....she is in tears begging for them to let her go natural and all the doctor keeps saying is that she had a previous c/s and its hospital policy.

    the doctor even went to the extreme of booking the c/s for next tuesday without her consent and has booked the anethetists appountment and sent the paper work out for her to fill in and drop in to the hospital today.

    This is why statistics are needed...this is happening NOW!!!!!! Wouldnt you consider that bullying? We need to know why doctor's in hospitals are doing c/s and if statistics give us the clues by telling us the % that are done electively, medically or whatever...its might STOP doctors from throwing around the c/s's like lollies and refrain from jumping in for no reason like this.

    Guess who's going to accompany her g/f to the hospital on monday

  14. #14
    Registered User

    Nov 2006
    Somewhere Over The Rainbow
    3,094

    If you don't care about whether your hospital performs far more c/s then necessary, I think it's your prepogative to ignore any stats they're asked to divulge. If, however, you WOULD like to know how your hospital compares to other hospitals, I think you should have a right to know. I would want to know, so why shouldn't I have access to that sort of information?


    SNAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  15. #15

    Dec 2005
    not with crazy people
    8,023


    The TRUTH is, many women is coerced into a c/s they wouldn't normally need. We see it here on BB ALL THE TIME. Your baby is too big. You'll put your baby in danger if you have a VBAC. Your pelvis is too small. You're too overdue. You're high risk.
    i was one of these woman....I so regret listen to the doctor at the time and taking his word for gold....his words were

    its hospital's policy

    still echo in my head.

    And as a result of his actions I had NO CHOICE but to deliver my last 2 children via c/s also. If I had known about the 'hospitals statistics' I would have made sure I went to the other town's more natural birth friendly..and LOW rate of c/s deliveries in the first place