Should c/s rates be published? Naming & shaming...

[maz]

Girls, for those of you who think you can fight, refuse or talk your way out of surgery... you can't. Sorry to sound defeatist but BTDT and it really makes me cry to think other people believe that anyone cares about you when you're giving birth. They don't.

I swear no one ever reads past posts...and it was just 3 post before yours!!!

[quote] UPDATE

My friend who had the c/s booked for her for tomorrow gave birth to a beautiful little boy at 7.05 this morning, via VBAC. If you have a voice...us it!! Dont think cause a DR or Ob has a degree they are necessary right. Listen to to your body and believe in yourself!!!! [QUOTE/]

She talked her way out and went against what they said and look what happened! She got her VBAC and a labour of only 5 hours too! THIER WORD IS NOT GOSPIL!!!!

RH - the midwife you had should have been slapped in the face!!! How dare she make you feel this way! It totally infuriates me the lack of sympathy and RESPECT any mother gets in hospitals after doing the most beautiful thing in the world...having a baby is one of the most complicated yet selfless acta a woman can do and no matter which way the out come of birth is...a woman should be made to feel like royaltiy.

[Smoke Jaguar]

Maz, the point of RH's post is that she has a voice, a pretty bloody good one, and her story really underscores situations where the 'system' comes to believe it is more important than its parts - that is, when hospitals and medicos forget that for each woman they see it's another day at work but for the woman it's a unique and momentous occasion.
Clearly, there is still a lot of healing left for you to do, RH, and I do agree that there are situations where women are dehumanised in birth - this is more to do with being disempowered by others rather than not being empowered in yourself. I agree that others failed you, and that there was no failing on your part when you were clear in your intentions. When you've done all you could do, then it's a massive failing on those people rude enough to call themselves your 'caregivers' when you feel the way you do two years later
Publishing statistics of the breakdown of birth procedures is empowering to women. There is no downside to the situation.

[Tobily]

Hi everyone,
I am not sure how to vote but I would say Yes.
My last baby was born via caeser and in my eyes there was no need. My doctor was saying he (my son) could be born naturally but her boss (who I never met and wasnt even there) told her by phone to do a caeser. I was upset as I never want another one after my first baby was a caeser. When we got up to theatre my doctor said she would check me again and said good news I can deliver right now no need for a caeser, I was so happy, until the phone rang - yep her boss again and Ihad a caeser. The next day I ask the same doctor (off the record) was the caeser necessary and she said no, that he (my son) could have been delivered normal. When I ask why she didnt do this she said she had to do what her boss ordered (I always thought the mother was in control hmmm) and that the hospital has to do so many caesers (more money for them). So i think hospitals caeser records should be available to expecting parents so they can decide!

Cate, that's shocking. Much love and healing to you.
x

[nickers]

i dislike the whole c/s rate debate. because no matter what reasons ppl have had a c/s it doesnt seem to come into the statistics, And when people hear the rate they dont think of all of all of the reasons behind a c/s just that their is x% of them.( i dislike i am just another statistic) yes there is a increases for many reasons there is also an increase in survival rates which babies would not have survived without a c/s
if they are going to do statistics i think the resons for the c/s should be available if its going to be a basis for where ppl will choose to deliver

[MoonJo]

I think having as much information as possible available, when choosing which hospital you want to birth in, is valuble in making an informed decision. I agree that the 'shaming' angle is unnecessary. Some c/s are life-saving procedures, but true emergencies are in the very low percentages. If a hospital has a c/s rate of around 50% - then obviously this is extremely high and women should have access to that information, as this would indicate that perhaps, the decision to c/s at that hospital is perhaps being made a little too prematurely.

Information is necessary for an informed decision to be made with confidence. All women deserve an empowered birth and for this to be an ultimate outcome, full disclosure of birthing environments and attendents is paramount.

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

Actually, Maz, I have read the whole thread.

I just know that someone listening to a woman in hospital is SO unlikely that the above story was the exception rather than the rule. I don't want people to think that this is normal or even achievable. It might be, maybe, just maybe, if you're lucky and it's so busy people forget to check on you. But don't take this as normal.

I'm not going to talk next time - because there will be no-one there for me to argue to. DS may well be around; he can go in the paper for being a child that delivers his sibling... because clearly the mother has nothing to do with it LOL. That's the point - TV, the obs and midwives do all the work. Papers and news programmes, the mother never delivers the child, it's the sibling or the taxi driver or whatever.

We need to start empowering women with steps like people talking about the MOTHER GIVING BIRTH and not how she needed "unqualified help" or her child being told what to do down the phone by a midwife... that's not needed! Trust your bodies! TELL women that even when they're not pregnant or considering children or childbirth!

Sorry, a bit off topic there. But women are educated before they even go to the hospital pre-natal education to think they can't have a baby by themselves, this needs to change too.

[paradise lost]

nickers the US has an ever increasing cs rate and MORE babies are dying during birth as those cs numbers rise, that's why there is global concern with the WHO over this. Unnecessary cs's DON'T save babies, they endanger them.

In 2006 i was one of 0.8% of women to deliver at home in the greater glasgow area and i'm DAMN proud to be that statistic!!!

Bx

[nickers]

you should be proud of that stat bx that is great you got to birth your baby at home!
i agree unneccisary c/s dont always save babies but c/s also DO save babies. My son would not be here if i didnt have one.
Im not all for c/s not by any means, it breaks my heart i was unable to have a vaginal birth (and a lot of girls on here know that) but I also cannot knock something that saved my son's life.

[Rouge]

I think the thing is for most people who don't agree with the current stats when it comes to C/S. Is its not C/S thats wrong its the over use and unnecessary use that is scary and unfair and alarming. There are plenty of babies and mothers that wouldn't be here without C/S but there are also babies and mothers who have lost a lot because of unnecessary c/s. This is the problem. Not because you made an informed decision, or because it was a life or death choice. But when you are told you "Need" to have major surgery because of xyz, then later find out you were lied to that is a problem. And this is why I think these stats need to be released.

If a certain hospital was over medicating with morphine, you wouldn't want morphine completely banned, you wouldn't judge those that had morphine that needed it, in fact you wouldn't judge those that had morphine that didn't need it you would judge those that prescribed that morphine. And this is how I think most women like myself who were forced into an unnecessary ceaser feel.

[Bathsheba]

Two really good points there Cailin Babies and mothers have died as well as been saved due to unnecessary c/sections... but at the same time that doesn't mean that c/sections are inheritantly wrong (like in Cailin's morphine analogy). Australia and USA have the one of the highest infant/mother mortality rates and also the highest c/section rates. There is a correlation. The WHO are concerned... so I am concerned... I can't see why I or anyone should feel ok about ignoring WHO concerns.

[Jennifer13]

I haven't read all of the posts, but in NSW I did see stats published on c/s rates, along with use of drugs (split by type) and various other indicators of care, quite detailed (days in hospital, admission to special care, I think even types of intervention required, etc). I think it was about 5 years ago, so fairly recent, and definitely a public document. It was for both private and public hospitals. You could easily tell the difference between elective and emergency caesarians, even though I understand 'elective' is a very loosely coined term! Personally, I was particularly interested in knowing how many emergency caesarians were being performed, since I think that those are more in the hands of the carers in the hospital.

So I think the stats of c/s themselves are not enough and I'm wondering why it isn't Australia-wide that the stats I spoke of above are published?

Actually, when it comes down to it, I'd also want to see stats on the individual obs and their c/s rates. But I'm betting the AMA would have something to say about that. I personally asked my ob for his stats (off the top of his head) and was satisfied. And once I had a c/s for placenta praevia I was sure to ask him about his vbac views.

ETA - I found the report - it was called NSW Mothers and Babies 2004 and published by the CSIRO. Not sure if I can post it but here is a link: http://www.publish.csiro.au/?act=vie...id=NB05S14.pdf Go to page 95 in the doc for the hospitals info. Page 97 has the c/s rates, split into elective and emergency.

I hope they do a report like this every few years.