Registered User
Girls, for those of you who think you can fight, refuse or talk your way out of surgery... you can't. Sorry to sound defeatist but BTDT and it really makes me cry to think other people believe that anyone cares about you when you're giving birth. They don't.
Listen to your body and believe in yourself... *goes off back to bed to cry again.*
But that's why the rates need publishing - it's not "who does sections and who doesn't" it's "who treats you as a human being and who doesn't" in my eyes.
You cant fight them when you numb from the neck down lol. I live in the country but the small country hospitals class you as high risk if you have had a caeser so then you are refered (by a 1800 number) to the hospital you HAVE to go to - which treats you as a number and discriminates against you. Even if they published their names you have no choice here in SA.
Registered User
I voted 'yes'. If you had two hospitals to choose from and one had a 30% c-sec rate and the other had a 5% one, well duh, which one would you choose?
makes me cry to think other people believe that anyone cares about you when you're giving birth. They don't.
Totally disagree with you there. But that's all I'll say cos it's bedtime!
BellyBelly Life Subscriber
I have to disagree with you there Rosehip Fairy.
With Charlie, my labour stalled after many hours and I was asked to go home. I insisted I stay at the hospital, and they let me. The next morning, I asked my ob to come to the hospital and break my waters because my unborn baby had been madly kicking for 5 hours straight, and I felt something was wrong. My ob didn't want to because it was Easter, but I insisted, so he did.
When he broke my waters, it was heavily stained with meconium, and my baby was obviously in distress. My ob said 'we need to get this baby out, I'm booking the theatre for a caesar'. I looked at him, and after my initial shock, said 'no, I don't want a caesar'.
My ob, suffice to say, wasn't happy, but he'd known me long enough to know that he wouldn't 'budge' me. He couldn't perform a c/s on me without my consent. I wanted to try other options first. I said I wanted to try to birth vaginally. He reluctantly agreed.
I finally agreed to an augmentation and continuous monitoring, with the proviso that if the baby's heart rate dipped, I would agree to a caesar.
I birthed my son vaginally 4 hours later. My son's heartrate never dipped so low that it was a concern. No one would have known that Charlie was never in any real danger if I had agreed to a caesar in the first instance though.
So I do believe if you're firm about what you want, you can be heard. I just hated that I had to be firm, or that at a time when I was fearing for my son's well-being, had I had less confidence in my body, I may well have been vulnerable to having a caesar I ultimately didn't need. Even after my son's birth, my DH told me that he was shocked that I'd stood my ground, and said he'd worried that I was doing the wrong thing and putting our son in jeopardy. Hell, if I wasn't running on faith, adenalin and instinct, perhaps that very fear would have made me succumb too. At the time though, my son's well-being WAS the most important thing to me, which is why I agreed to be monitored (and give up access to an active birth). I just didn't think a 'quickie' c/s was the best course of action at that time, despite what my dr was saying. I trusted my instincts, and I felt that I (and my unborn child) just needed more time to 'get there'. So until they could prove to me that I was putting my son's life at risk by not cutting him out of my body, I was not agreeing to a c/s.
What I REALLY needed was a birth attendant who had as much faith in my body as I had, and I don't think that in general obs tend to have faith in their 'patients' bodies. I hated being the one having to 'fly in the face' of my medical professional's opinions, when what I really needed was for my team to support me. But I don't blame him either. He sees a medical solution to any problems, after all his whole job is about intervening when things go wrong (and sometimes even when things are just a little wrong!)
So I do think you can fight, refuse and talk your way out of surgery. I did. I just think having to do it while in labour is a pretty crap thing to have to endure, so I can understand why most women wouldn't do it, esp if it's their first pg.
Last edited by sushee; November 24th, 2008 at 08:37 PM.
Registered User
Cate, you don't HAVE to go to hospital - you can stay at home. You can rock up at a hospital locally and say you're about to push, no time to get to the aforementioned hospital.
Just because you have an appointment doesn't mean you can't cancel it!
Taking my own advice for the next time LOL.
edit:
"He couldn't perform a c/s on me without my consent." - my Obs could have; DH would have agreed if I didn't.
I'm backing out of this discussion: feeling like a COMPLETE waste of space again because I WAS bloody firm, I was bloody fighting... but why did I even have to? Why did I fail so badly that I couldn't even fight properly?
BellyBelly Life Subscriber
I don't think women SHOULD have to fight, RH, not just with their obs but with their husbands as well. My DH was crazy scared, but would not have tried to budge me, and for that I was grateful. I also think having my obs be someone who was with me from conception (he was my fertility specialist) to birth meant he knew when I got that 'look' on my face, that I wasn't going to be moved.
But you're right, why should you have had to fight? Why should any woman have to fight to be heard, when it's about their bodies and their babies?
I think you copped a really bad set of circumstances, RH and I didn't ever mean to insinuate that you didn't fight hard enough. I'm just saying it can be done, I myself have done it. But obviously with the right set of circumstances. I know you tried your level best RH, but while your experience makes you feel like a woman will never have power over her situation, I'm saying that that's not always true. It's not always true that you will have to accept anything they decide to do to you. That's why I talked about my experience. Because I think by saying a woman will NEVER have control, women will stop fighting for what they want. And that would be a tragedy.
ETA can your DH agree on your behalf for a c/s? I didn't think he could unless you were unable to consent yourself (eg in a coma). If that's true, it's bloody outrageoous!!
Last edited by sushee; November 24th, 2008 at 08:25 PM.
Registered User
Okay, blonde moment here. I just worked out how to vote. I voted yes BTW.
Now it is:
622 votes for yes (43%)
611 votes for no (42%)
Sushee, thanks for your positive story. I plan to stand my ground next time too.
Registered User
Sushee, that's just it. I tried my best. I failed. The midwife the next day went out of her way to let me know how much I failed - she knew I would anyway.
I had about ten to fifteen people in the room when I gave birth. Aside from DH (sat at the back looking pale with midwives worried about him) I hadn't met any of these people before late that morning - when I was already 8cm dilated.
I feel so much worse because I failed. I knew and I failed. It wasn't worth the fight for me, nor was it worth the education. It just means I did my best and failed. I'd rather have just been dumb and failed. I'd rather have not known about all of this and failed, then I could blame something other than me just being a failure.
If you can fight and win, qudos to you. I'm obviously not good enough to do that. Believe me, I feel BAD about that. And would rather just not fight because then I didn't do my best and failed, maybe I could do better next time. And I know I can't.
And yup, DH can agree to a section for me. It's fine and good - they have a signature, they can chop me up now. Lucky them, they're OK. They got DH's say-so for the episiotomy - didn't even tell me they wanted to do it because they knew I wouldn't agree to it.
BellyBelly Life Subscriber
RH,
By the sounds of it, I personally think there were a lot of people who failed YOU. I don't think you failed. One person can only fight so much. And when there is that much opposition, so little support and so much control taken away from you at a time when you're in pain, vulnerable and scared, I don't think ANYONE should be thinking, let alone saying, you'd failed.
I don't think birthing the best way you could despite the odds is failing at all.
But that conversation is for another thread.
Registered User
Okay, blonde moment here. I just worked out how to vote. I voted yes BTW.
Now it is:
622 votes for yes (43%)
611 votes for no (42%)
Sushee, thanks for your positive story. I plan to stand my ground next time too.
BellyBelly Life Subscriber
I'm glad to hear it, spice. I think the day we stop fighting, and stop informing ourselves, will be a sad day for women in general. Some of us will be forever scarred by our experiences; the rest of us have to keep fighting so that sort of thing stops happening to women.
I swear no one ever reads past posts...and it was just 3 post before yours!!!
[quote] UPDATE
My friend who had the c/s booked for her for tomorrow gave birth to a beautiful little boy at 7.05 this morning, via VBAC. If you have a voice...us it!! Dont think cause a DR or Ob has a degree they are necessary right. Listen to to your body and believe in yourself!!!! [QUOTE/]
She talked her way out and went against what they said and look what happened! She got her VBAC and a labour of only 5 hours too! THIER WORD IS NOT GOSPIL!!!!
RH - the midwife you had should have been slapped in the face!!! How dare she make you feel this way! It totally infuriates me the lack of sympathy and RESPECT any mother gets in hospitals after doing the most beautiful thing in the world...having a baby is one of the most complicated yet selfless acta a woman can do and no matter which way the out come of birth is...a woman should be made to feel like royaltiy.
Last edited by Trillian; November 25th, 2008 at 08:43 AM.
Registered User
Maz, the point of RH's post is that she has a voice, a pretty bloody good one, and her story really underscores situations where the 'system' comes to believe it is more important than its parts - that is, when hospitals and medicos forget that for each woman they see it's another day at work but for the woman it's a unique and momentous occasion.
Clearly, there is still a lot of healing left for you to do, RH, and I do agree that there are situations where women are dehumanised in birth - this is more to do with being disempowered by others rather than not being empowered in yourself. I agree that others failed you, and that there was no failing on your part when you were clear in your intentions. When you've done all you could do, then it's a massive failing on those people rude enough to call themselves your 'caregivers' when you feel the way you do two years later
Publishing statistics of the breakdown of birth procedures is empowering to women. There is no downside to the situation.
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