Should c/s rates be published? Naming & shaming...

[BellyBelly]

Yup at the end of the day, those who dont want to know wont care and it doesnt matter. But those who do want to know and see it is a very important piece of information towards having a normal and natural birth as possible, we miss out. It should be available for those who want it, those who do can miss out. I think the information will be presented professionally and media hype blows everything out of context.

So funny, those who dont care think there is choice. You can choose vaginal birth or c/s.... stats dont matter... but those who do care know there is a hell of alot more to it than that. There is NO choice in many regards, its not fair, its not equal, very lobsided and those who dont care wont care.

[richsaralex]

So true!

I just wish there were more birthing centres like the one I attended with my first birth (and will attend again in April!).

Its in a hospital but has no OBs or docs at all - only midwives. Its completely independent. They provide fantastic care and a brilliant education (their pre-natal classes are AMAZING and opened up my eyes to so many things), and they are pro-choice without shoving anything in your face!

I'm not sure if i'm allowed to say who they are - but if you live in Newcastle or surrounds - look up the Belmont Birthing Centre. I cant recommend them enough!!!

[BellyBelly]

Belmont is BRILLIANT! Carolyn Hastie manages it, and she's awesome

[Hopes&Dreams]

I had a c for my first who was breech. In the old days we would have both died there was no way she could have been born. It is between the doc and patient and each does what is best for the individual concerned.

I agree with the below, the stats would have to say why each c-sect was performed to be valid and really the hospital aren't the ones who say yes or no to it anyway.

[sushee]

I have to wonder if some of the newer posters are actually reading the whole thread? Or even the last page of posts?

Because I'm starting to feel like one half of us is having one conversation, and the other half is having a completely different conversation.

Hope&Dreams, can I just ask that you please just read my previous post on this page. I'm getting really tired of saying the same things over and over again, is all, about how no one here is judging c/s mums and how we're talking about having access to statistics, not about birth choices.

ETA I'm really confused by the mindset that if you're somehow at peace with your c/s, that it means that people who WANT to make an informed decision, who WANT statistics, who WANT to know if their hospital has a higher than normal c/s rate shouldn't have access to that information because you don't want to be 'judged'. WT???? How is that even related??

[richsaralex]

Belmont is BRILLIANT! Carolyn Hastie manages it, and she's awesome

I know - Caroline is amazing! I birthed my son with Elise & Debbie and that was incredible (although not strictly 'by the book'! lol) and this time Kim is my midwife, tho who knows who i'll end up with on the day!!

[Macca79]

OK, last time in this thread for me.

We all want what is best for our kids, yes? So we inform ourselves, yes? We look at information to make informed choices, yes?

Well this is about information. If the stats are not published how can we make an informed choice?

If you don't want to know, then don't look them up, simple. If you do want to know then why should the information not be available to you. Without this sort of information how will mothers yet to be, be able to make the right decision for them when it comes to birthing?

Sushee I agree with your last post 100%.

[Hopes&Dreams]

In response what I am saying is that I don't think that having access to the statistics of c/s in each hospital is of any relevance when it is the individual doctor along with patient that decides if a c/s is necessary and thus just releasing the statistics of each hospital doesn't give any further information to a mother to be.

I think it is important to remember that everyone is entitled to an opinion and that should be respected. Sharing of personal information should also be respected.

[sushee]

I respect your right to share information Hope&Dreams, when it's in context to the discussion. I too shared my opinion, and you know what? I read your post. Did you read mine though? Because I said in an earlier post that I was speaking of women who were coerced or scared into having an unnecessary c/s, and there are many of them.

The thread has already been derailed on numerous occasions by women posting saying that because their c/s was deemed necessary, that it means there must not be any value in knowing if your hospital carries out more c/s than medically necessary. It's as if to say that unecessary c/s don't happen, when it's apparent from the statistics that they do, and often, every day, with thousands of women.

I believe there is a value to having that information. The drs are not the only ones involved. The hospital develop policies that impact on women as well.

And just because you don't see the value, does that mean I shouldn't have access to information I believe would be valuable to me?

[maz]

In a different light...if it wasnt for statiistics people wouldnt be as open to excepting people with autisum or disabilities now aday were 3 -4 years ago I use to hide at home due to stares, abuse and plain rudness of other people voicing their much unappropriate opinions at me.

Now thats to studies....statistics and INFORMATION given of the amount of autisic children there are in this world..people are more open to except us when out.

Statistics help...its not about (yet again) your personal name.......its about numbers people....we all cant live in this fantasty world were everything is happy happy, joy joy

[sushee]

The funny thing is, I am not pro-VB, I'm not a passionate vaginist. In fact, I'm pretty sure all I am is very confused.

I have always been confused about our nation's rising c/s rates. Because all evidence shows that it is NOT the safer thing for mothers and babies, except in extreme situations. But time and time again women are choosing it. Why? What is getting lost in translation?

Is it that we're not being told the facts? Yet when we get to vote on being more informed, we choose not to be!

What I'm passionate about is a woman's right to know all the facts before she makes a decision. I don't want to go in blindly, esp when it has to do with my child's life and well-being. I don't want to be 'told', I want to learn for myself. That's what I'm passionate about.

[christy]

mmmm I'm thinking things are going around and around.....

I just don't understand why people don't think that it is a woman's right to check out these stats. I mean... if I were going to buy a washing machine (hear me out people ) and I wanted to know which one to buy according to my desires... I would check out choice magazine and see the feedback, I would ask friends & family, and then I would check out prices.

Why can't we do this when we are talking about healthcare?? In the veterinary world, we often have people phone asking for prices on things, and what is involved and sometimes where the best place is to go and get what they want. I mean, if someone had a dog with an orthopaedic emergency, wouldn't it be best to see an orthopaedic surgeon??

[Bathsheba]

I don't think many are reading anyone else's posts or responses Sush... everyone is coming in with their experiences and thats it.

I agree Kelly. I worry about a society that can't see past the "my, mine, I". I fail to see how describing a personal account applies to this discussion... we are not talking about individual situations... this is a thread about information for ALL women. To be honest i'm skimming over the personal accounts of emergency c/sections... they are totally off topic.

Hoobley, Sush, Maz, Mayaness, Wintergreen, great contributions I have to share the love for some of you but I'll come back to your posts when i can.

One thing Wintergreen said has really stuck with me: the notion that giving birth is not like having a tooth pulled in a dentist's chair... it's more like driving a car. Great analogy. I wish more women could see it that way as well. A great way to illustrate that one is a passive experience (tooth pulling) and the other (birth) should be an active experience. Get your "baby on board" car sticker and put it on your bellies.

Sometimes the riskiest attitude is the "ok how can I get this baby extracted with the minimum of pain" one. Pain doesn't have to be feared... athletes (eg marathon runners) embrace pain as a means toward an end. I think that many OB's take advantage of a woman's fear as they coerce them into unnecessary c/sections. That really needs to stop. If c/section stats were published and made easily accessible it might be more likely to stop.

[Snacks]

I am possibly going to be repeating what others have already said- forgive me! Every time I sit down to read this thread I don't get through it all and by the time I get on again there're a million more posts!
I'm going to vote yes. We trust our health care providers to give us the best possible information and outcomes. IMO the high c/s rates show that SOME OBs are not giving their patients that service.
This may get people's backs up because likely they were told there was no other alternative for them but to have intervention. I've no doubt that in some cases this is true. But in others it is not.
Inducing a labour is soooo commonplace! And I know of many people who are induced for convenience or policy rather than health. AND they are obviously not being fully informed of the very real risks to them and their babies. If they were, why would they agree?
And as to mothers making the choice to have c/s, are they fully informed of the risks associated with that? If so, great. It is their choice after all. BUT I seriously doubt so many women would choose to have the c/s if their OBs fully disclosed to them the risks, rather than just being agreeable to their uninformed request.
This is the 'shaming'. Hospitals and OBs who do not fulfil their responsibilities to their patients are failing them. That is shameful.
Our freedom to access information is something we must actively protect and fight for, simply because it is our basic right.

[kristy J]

oh gee its getting ugly in here.

all personal opinions about weather someone should or should not choose a c/sect or if its rushed into or even necessary or just wanted.
I'm still not convinced that these stats should be published (or shamed) just ask your OB or the hospital what their opinions on C/sects are. people can access this information if they want it.

and FYI my ob didn't want to do a c/sect for DS1 i begged for it and also made them book me in for number DS2&3 aswell.

[sushee]

Or the stats could be published and the people who don't want to know don't have to read it, and the people who do want to know can find it easily.

Because I don't think hospitals or obs will generally admit to favouring c/s. Nether of mine did, and yet the hospital I went to had a high c/s rate, as did my ob for someone who said he was pro-VB. Stats don't lie.

[maz]

Here's one for you girls

I have a g/f that is over due...she was due last monday....she has the docotor at the hospital PUSHING her into a c/s because her first 18 year old son was...dont worry about the fact that her 2 children afterwards were VBACS.....she is in tears begging for them to let her go natural and all the doctor keeps saying is that she had a previous c/s and its hospital policy.

the doctor even went to the extreme of booking the c/s for next tuesday without her consent and has booked the anethetists appountment and sent the paper work out for her to fill in and drop in to the hospital today.

This is why statistics are needed...this is happening NOW!!!!!! Wouldnt you consider that bullying? We need to know why doctor's in hospitals are doing c/s and if statistics give us the clues by telling us the % that are done electively, medically or whatever...its might STOP doctors from throwing around the c/s's like lollies and refrain from jumping in for no reason like this.

Guess who's going to accompany her g/f to the hospital on monday

[scooby]

I vote a a great big NO.

I also have to agree that the stigma attached to CS doesn't need any further promotion either. I am currently 30 weeks pregnant and have been diagnosed with vasa praevia, a condition that, unless things change in the next 4 weeks, will require a planned CS. When I tell people I am having a CS I am either grilled about why, given a disapproving look and a tsk tsk or lectured about having an 'elective CS'. Now I feel I have to give a full explanation of my condition every time someone asks in order to avoid the harrasment.

.

I definately agree Sonjiji the CS stigma doesnt need promotion like this and putting CS and shame in the same sentence is an issue in this article. I didnt come looking for this thread i was sent an email to make a vote and/or comment, i dont believe im being narrow minded because the word "shame" upsets me. i have exactly the same issue (and dont want to explain about anal tears and fecal incontinence to every stranger i meet) and articles like this just make it harder.
Can i just state again that i would vote yes as i do believe we have a right to the info so WE can make an informed choice