Scared and feel like i wont be respected

[~*familyof3*~]

Ok so this is my 3rd bubs. Ive not had any probs with the pregnancy.
I had my other 2 bubs at the hosp we are booked into have this one at.

Now my first one was fine went into labour on my own all they did was break my waters ok cool.
Second was over due and i was induced.Not as good as the first there were times i was told they were going to do whatever it was due to safety of bubs ect. Later turns out it wasnt necessary per say. eg they were having a hard time monitoring bubs so told me they were going to monitor him diff ( not sure of the name but it was a thing put into bubs head while in me) turns out i could have said no and the MW would have had to sit next to me and monitor bubs.
The other thing was i didnt want internals.......they told me they HAD to at one point and a doc came in to do it....she was so rough she was hurting me more than my contractions were hence i screamed at her and she copped a boot in the head :S .

So on to now......I clearly am now more up to date with my rights ect and am clear on things i want and dont want. We have been attending out anti-natal class's the past 2 weeks and i took the time to listen and ask some questions just to reassure myself that if i say no it would be respected.......
Well thats not quite how it went..........the MW was showing us the cord they sometimes have to use to monitor bubs (the one i was made to use) and explained that 2 weeks ago a woman refused it and it was such a hassle as her and the ladys hubby had to sit in turns holding the other monitor in place to monitor bubs. She was having a sad about it and said if she had simply agreed it would have been so much easier. So this alone made me start to think...it shouldnt matter if it caused you to have to work a bit more its her right to say no

The next thing was she was showing everyone the "forceps" and showing how they are used ect. Now these are a BIG NO NO to me as i have a massive fear that if they are used by the wrong doc it could harm bubs or my bits. So i ask her.......If you were to refuse the use of "forceps" what would the next step be? What would our options be?

Well she didnt answer my question at all all she said was....."Well we dont use them unless it is necessary to and we would explain to you why we were going to use them".... And everytime i asked thats all she would say to me. she asked me why i would say no, and i was honest and said that i have a huge fear of the use of them and i dont want them used on me at all..............to which she simply repeated what she said before :S

So my question is Can i refuse them? Is it my right to refuse them? And has anyone here refused them and if so what was the next step?
Also how do i make it clear to them that under no circumstance's are they to use them and make it stick? Also i want it clear that no internals are to be done untill my body makes me feel like i need to push,i feel its not necessary to do them untill then. Am i allowed to refuse that as well?

Ive become so scared that i would be respected and that in my pain and half there half not that they will do it anyway

[sconeonamission]

Wow. I'm very interested in what others have to say! Are there any midwives (on here) that can comment?

Can you maybe ask a different midwife?

[helle]

To the monitoring... How horrible. My midwives never left my side, if I moved positions and the monitor lost bubs they'd find him again. If bubs moved they'd find him again. That is their job, that is what they're paid to do. It gets on my goat how lazy and la de da some midwives are.

[HotI]

Unfortunately it depends on the hospital and staff on that day. Legally and morally they are meant to respect your right to refuse and are meant to seek informed consent before acting. This doesn't always happen.

Good on you for asking the questions. The answers given would concern me too.

Can you get a doula? Is your birth partner wiling to talk up and stand up for you during labour?

[KitFaerie]

I've said in my birth plan that no forceps are to be used. I don't think there's enough training in how to use them correctly and the chances of something going wrong are too high for me. So I've said that ventouse is ok, and if that doesn't work in x amount of time then I'm ok with a c-section. But that's just me. You might be more freaked out by a c-section DH is well aware of the forceps thing, and we are both committed to doing everything we can to avoid an assisted birth.

The midwife in the birth class said that I could choose between ventouse and forceps if it came down to it, but their focus would also be on birthing positons etc to avoid that situation happening!

[HotI]

My birth plan stated many things that were not respected by the medical staff.

I verbally refused many procedures that were then performed against my will.

You can't guarantee your safety or that your rights will be respected when you walk through the hospital doors.

[LimeSlice]

YES YOU CAN REFUSE FORCEPS!!

They will use a vacuum (ventouse) like thing that sucks to the baby's head. It is MUCH gentler and safer.
You do need to be aware though that there are circumstances that forceps will be necessary - but not until after they have attempted a ventouse, and that it may be too late to have a c/s if they are needed.

My birth plan quite clearly stipulates that forceps are NOT to be used or even discussed unless ventouse has been tried and failed several times and I have been fully explained the situation and given express consent or elected to have a c/s instead. But I am aware however that the situation may arise where they are necessary, in which case the most senior and exprienced Ob on shift at the time is to use them and no students or registrars are to attempt forcep delivery.

The midwife sounds horrbile and disrespectful - make sure your DH And other support people are fully aware of your wishes, educated on the whys and why nots of your birth plan and prepared to stand their ground if it comes to it.

GL

[angelaartsstudent]

I refused forceps on my birth plan and they used vacuum instead (but with a LOT of force applied). There was a bit of a red lump on DD's head for a while but it went away fast enough.

[~*familyof3*~]

I've said in my birth plan that no forceps are to be used. I don't think there's enough training in how to use them correctly and the chances of something going wrong are too high for me. So I've said that ventouse is ok, and if that doesn't work in x amount of time then I'm ok with a c-section. But that's just me. You might be more freaked out by a c-section DH is well aware of the forceps thing, and we are both committed to doing everything we can to avoid an assisted birth.

well thats the same for me i am ok with the Ventouse but i would take a c-sect over the forceps.

Thankyou so much for your replies. I just got back from an appt at the clinic so i made a point of asking there too.And the MW that i asked said that they have to respect what we say no matter what. That the final say is up to us......but we do need to be aware of the risks ect.
So im glad i asked. She also asked us whom it was that wouldnt tell me and she knew right away and said that she was new and hadnt had as much training as others and that she simply should have said she wasnt sure but would find out.

LimeSlice i love the way your BP is set out could you give me any tips on writing one out? I wish to make sure my wants are clearly out there and well known.
Thanks again everyone I feel more scared the third time round than the first lol

[angelaartsstudent]

Ditto to the above. LimeSlice, would love birth plan assistance.

[onthefly]

Wow, that midwife sounds pretty awful. No wonder you're worried.

Yes, you can refuse anything and everything - it's your body and your baby. However, as Kate has said, they won't always respect your wishes - it's a bit of pot luck depending on who is caring for you and where you are. Some midwives and doctors would never dream of doing anything without your full informed consent and wouldn't disrespect your wishes, but some unfortunately are not so scrupulous.

Write out a birth plan with all this stuff and make sure your DH is fully aware of everything in there. Is he a good advocate? Will he stand up for you and your baby? If not, or you're not sure, get someone else to be there also to advocate for you. Sometimes you need a physical barrier between you and the medicos - just saying no may not be enough.

There may be ocasions where forceps are necessary, but you should be in a position to trust your caregivers to let you know when it is truly necessary.
Internals are also recommended at certain times (ie, if they're about to start some sort of intervention/pain releif etc where it's good to know exactly where you're at first), but that doesn't mean you have to have them whenever they like to.
As for the monitoring.... I can't believe they would complain about that.

I think it's good to prepare just in case - hopefully you'll have a wonderful supportive midwife on the day and this won't be a problem for you.

[samaraxx]

Sorry I can't offer any info about my experience with labour and birth as I had a booked c-section due to a breech baby. But you should definately write out a birth plan, and just clearly state what you DO and DON'T want.
I.e:
I do NOT consent to the use of forceps
I do NOT consent to internal monitoring
I wish to discuss all forms of intervention in private with my support team before making a decision.

Write down all your concerns and questions and your birth plan and take them to your next doctors appointment and don't leave until you get the answers you want! And make sure you don't ask, but tell. It is your body and your baby, sadly some doctors and midwives do things that are unessesary because they are more convenient for them. I'm going for a VBAC any day now and after reading some horror stories about continuos monitoring & interventions, etc. I did this at my last appointment and surprisingly my doctor and widwife was great about about it! Every hospital is different though so you may feel alot more comfortable and confident hiring a doula if possible! But either way the best thing is to get everything out there before the labour and birth so everyone knows where they stand... Good Luck! I hope you have a wonderful birth just the way you imagine it to be

[~*familyof3*~]

Thanks Marcellus

Yep i know that some times things do HAVE to be done as theres no other option but i want to make sure that if there are options they are followed first.

DH say's he will but my worry is if they use they if we dont such a such a...line then he will just say yes. This is the line that was used on me with the monitoring thing they worded it so i thought i had no other option...when i did.

Also does anyone know what the policy is if you have said no and its clearly stated and they did it anyway? What happens then...anything or do they push it under the rug. I know i sound like a pain but i would really like to feel safe and be completely happy with this birth

[onthefly]

That's the sticky part fo3 - you have to trust that what they are telling you is actually true.
And if they go against your wishes...? They will simply say it was medically necessary. I'm a terrible cynic - when you get burned by these things it's hard to get past it.
If I were birthing in a hospital again, I would hire an idependent midwife as my support person. She would know me and my wishes and also be familiar with the medical side of things - I could trust her to advise me when interventions were truly necessary.

You're not being a pain - you absolutely have the right to feel safe and secure in your birthing place! I truly hope that your wishes are respected and you and your baby are well cared for

[HotI]

There is usually a hospital (in-house) complaints process and there are also State based organisations where you can submit your complaints (see Complaintline complaint categories - doctor).

You may get an apology, or have mediation with the persons involved but in my experience it all feels pretty empty. ALthough it sucks that we have to do it, the best thing is to protect yourself from the start. Education and being aware of your rights is the first thing, and you have done this. Having the right support people who are supportive of your choices is next. An independent midwife or experienced doula will be more aware when they are feeding you bull in order to get your non-informed 'consent'.

Have you read "the thinking woman's guide to a better birth"? It lists some of the benefits and risks of many of the potential interventions offered during birth.

[~*familyof3*~]

Thats why im so iffy Marcellus due to knowing things they said and did last time were not necessary *sigh*

Nope Kate i havent but i think ima go find a copy and start reading quick smart. I did broach the doula subject but hubby feels its his place and did not like the idea at all which i can understand. He is also not keen on a home birth So im just going to have to make sure he knows where i stand and make sure he stands up for me.

[LimeSlice]

As regards to doulas, think you need to revisit this with your hubby.
A doula does NOT replace the partner in the room and it is important he understands this.
Perhaps find an expirenced VBAC doula in your area and make an appt so your dh can voice his concerns... She could be crucial to you both having he birth expire ce you want and take some ofthe advocating pressure off your dh.

[HotI]

If you can't get your hands on a copy of the book and want to borrow mine, let me know.

My biggest regret is that i didn't listen to my internal voice, and went along with things so that my DH was more comfortable. It is my body and i am the one living with the physical and mental effects so next time (?) i won't be making that mistake.

I hope that none of this becomes an issue for you, and you get people like the second midwife you saw who recognise your rights and ability to make decisions for yourself.