Birth - Your view...

[Trillian]

I do think that medical intervention has it's place in the birth of a baby, but only when it is medically required.

WRT over-diagnosis of CPD I just wanted to add that since I first posted in this, my SIL had her baby via c/s. She was apparently 'overdue' by 10 days (but keeping in mind her dates had varied alot during the pg) and was put in for a gel induction. When that failed twice, she was told she would have to have a c/s because she was already 10 days post dates. She was never asked if she would like a u/s to check placental function and being a first mum she wouldn't have known to ask. So instead of waiting it out, she agreed to the c/s. When he was born he was covered in vernix, much like an early baby would be and he looked nowhere near 'overcooked'.

I asked SIL afterwards if she would try for a VBAC next time and she said her ob told her that when they did the c/s she found that her pelvis was 'long and narrow' (how can a pelvis be long and narrow?) and making her unable to ever delivery naturally. Mind you she hadn't even dialated at all, so how can they make that diagnosis when the pelvis hadn't even tried to birth her baby? In a way I feel she has been ripped off because she was never given the chance to try and she is sort of naive enough to go with the Dr's opinion.

I apologise if I've rambled, but this has really annoyed me and since i have been here at BB I have learnt so much about the birthing process and I think Doctors should be obligated to offer a second opinion or an u/s before just going and doing stuff like that and making sure the mother is informed of her choices, because not every mum will know to ask for these things.

[Trish]

LOL Fi, I had all but forgotten about my pool arriving so bloody late and all the dramas I had getting it. I have kept my pool. Mark wanted me to get rid of it. I just can't, it holds so much signifigance to me. I told him I'm keeping it for Tehya to have her babies in. His answer "she won't want to use a second hand pool" LOL


Take care
Trish

[MantaRay]

Very interesting question and responses. Unfortunately I don't think the bb members are indicative of society - we are way smarter and more educated

[Julie Doula]

If homebirth was so dangerous, do you think we would hear about deaths on the news?

There was a recent article in the US about two young first time mothers in the same town, who attended each other's baby showers.

The first one had a c/s and died during the surgery. Her friend was freaking out, saying, OMG I hope that is not going to happen to me. A week later, she also ended up having a c/s, and died.

Both mothers and babies were totally healthy - no pre-existing problems.

Imagine if that happened to two homebirth mothers in the same town.

[Cyathea]

I agree with the statement very strongly, in fact so strongly that my next birth is going to be unassisted. I feel even the presence of a homebirth midwife interferes with my birth process, so I am choosing not to have one.

And very quickly, first time mums are ALLOWED to have homebirths...it is ENTIRELY their own choice!!

A woman has the right to choose the place of birth of her babies whether it is her 1st or 12th.

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

Cyathea, I am with you - I want an unassisted birth next time, my last one was just so messed up and I didn't feel like I was at all respected in my decisions. Stuff that, I'm not going to tell anyone I'm pg just so I can have my unassisted birth!

[doulacara]

it does suggest to me (and many other parents I have had this exact conversation with) that the stats seem to be slightly stacked when referring to homebirths. After all, these are the same births that would more than likely have gone to plan in hospital as well.

To my mind, the fact that homebirth stats don't usually include high-risk births is what makes them reassuring. It means that private midwives are providing excellent care by referring women with complications to hospital where these can be closely monitored. For example, in my area, one of the homebirth midwives is not experienced in vaginal breech birth, so she refers women on, rather than take any risks with her lack of experience. I don't think it's a given that successful homebirths would have gone to plan in hospital either. That would depend on alot of factors, including the personal views of the midwife assigned to care for the woman. Some are more medically minded than others and push interventions.

I feel very strongly that birth is a natural event, best left to run its course and not be interfered with unless medically indicated. I think that advances in obstetric care save lives often. I also think that obstetrics has treated women with the utmost contempt in the last century and that we are still trying to claw our way back from that. How many women are still told today that they must birth on their backs on a bed or not encouraged to do otherwise?

The fear around birth in western society is so detrimental to us. We think that we can't give birth without pain relief and we choose to have major abdominal surgery rather than experience natural childbirth, often because of the horror stories we hear from our mothers and grandmothers - the survivors of appalling care. I accept that women have the right to choose how their baby is born, however I think the fact that some women choose surgery out of fear or even vanity speaks volumes about our cultural attitudes to birthing women. I also accept that women have the right to opt for pain relief, but I hear so many women say that they "don't know if they will cope with labour" and I believe that the medicalisation of birth is responsible for that. 100 years ago there would be no question - women had to cope with labour drug-free, and they did. Why don't we think we can?

I would like to qualify this whole rant by emphasizing that I am NOT criticising ANYONE who chooses a medically unnecessary caesarean or drugs during labour. I had an epidural during my first labour. I guess I am really criticising obstetrics for driving the fear into us - that our bodies will fail us and that we aren't strong enough.

I could probably go on for ages - but I'll stop now. Apologies for the rant.

Rgds,
C

PS Love this thread!

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

FIrstly, I can give birth without pain relief and look forward to doing so. I can experience natural childbirth and look forward to doing so. I CANNOT do this while in a hospital surrounded by midwives and obstetricians - so I'm just not going to tell anyone I'm pregnant next time so I aren't bullied into a hospital. I'm also not going to tell my DH because he's as bad as any of them.

Educating yourself isn't enough. You have to educate your husband/partner, the midwives while you're in labour... even the obstetrician, if you're allowed to speak out of turn.

The reason why giving birth is bloody awful is because other people try to tell you what to do rather than just letting you get on with it.

[Cyathea]

Amen Ryn.

I'd like to speak to the comment that all homebirths are 'low risk' yes, they are in the eyes of particular mw's, who realise that if complications occur, they can be dealt with, at home, or in a hospital if necessary.

I know/know of women who have homebirthed (planned, by the way) breech babies, twins, after 2 ceseareans, with GD, all manner of things which the mainstream system freak out about and label women 'high risk' over.

The only person that matters as far as 'high risk' goes is yourself. If you refuse to be labelled thus, and are comfortable with that, or have a mw who is comfortable with it also, then a homebirth is only as far away as your desire to have one.

I would perhaps have been labelled high risk after my first birth, PPH, and 3rd degree tear, but I didn't bother to let anyone label me, I simply learned from the experience, and made sure the problems would not occur again by active management of risk factors during pregnancy. I wnt on to plan my second hb, I did tear, which healed exceptionally well after my mw stitched me, and blood loss was normal.

Unofficial but generally accepted transfer stats for hb are around the 20% mark, most of these being first time mums who have genuine 'failure to progress' and most of these go on to birth vaginally.

The number of TRUE emergencies are miniscule. And why is that? We go back to the original premise of this thread.

[becmc]

Nice to see more homebirthing mums!
After intervention causing my traumatic (emotionally) c/s I am choosing to homebirth with this little one, and am so looking forward to the peaceful, calm environment that will help bring my bub into the world, minus all the unnecessary intervention.
I used to think before I had my first that birth had to be medical, but now, no way!!
I think medical care should be available definately in the case of emergency, but having a hospital 5 minutes away provides that, but without the stress of actually being there, and being left open to their interference.

[Julie Doula]

I totally agree with this statement. 'Less is More' is never more true than for birth. Doing nothing is better than feeling you have to do something; and simply waiting sure beats intervening. To quietly wait takes trust and patience. They are the gifts you bring to a birth. That, and a lot of love. It's the love for the birthing couple and their baby that is your best guide to know what to do and when (and when the most loving thing to do is nothing - leave them in peace and privacy to find their way).

A recent birth confirmed to me that although this approach is ideal the majority of the time (and is optimum all of the time), there can come a time when extra help is needed - in some cases. This was one of those times. The mother reached 8 cm beautifully. The baby's head was slightly asynclitic. At that point we began to suggest some moves to help her relax and the baby's head to shift. After a long time, and after many techniques had been tried, we were still not successful. We transported to hospital. She had an epidural, got a total rest (she was exhausted) and was able to give birth with the help of a ventouse. Not the ideal we had all hoped for, but we were all so pleased that she averted a c/section. This mother worked so, so hard, she was just so valiant. I felt in this case that it was the timely and judicious use of interventions first at home and later at hospital.

[Berry]

I chose disagree but wanted to explain that the part of the statement I disagree with is "unless absolutely medically necessary" - I think birth is completely natural but intervention is fine not only for medical necessity but also if the birthing woman wants intervention for psychological or other reasons. I think keeping birth close to nature is a beautiful thing, as long as mum and bub's welfare are not compromised.

[kungfubecca]

I do agree with this statement, however i can see the point that berry has made that medical necessity may not be the only thing to influence a womens choices.

After all we do have choices now and we should be consumers of our health care, not patients.

[~mamaspice~]

Sherie, I totally agree with everything you've said.

I was one of the naive ones and had an elective CS when in hindsight I don't think it was really necessary. My OB also thinks I've probably got CPD. I sooo hear what you are saying about your SIL's c-section. I feel totally ripped off too. (even moreso I think cause I needed a general)

Bellybelly has taught me sooo much too (thanks bellybelly) and I don't care what anyone says, I'll be having an intervention free VBAC next time round

Oh, of course I do think intervention is a good thing though in a situation where it saves a mum and/or bubs life but on the whole birth is a natural process that does not need unnecessary interventions.

[Rachel]

I put unsure...not because I don't know what I think....but because I sort of agree and sort of don't. I am all for natural birth (and again that depends on what you clasify natural birth as), but I did have medical intervention with my daughter, not because it was necessarily absolutely necessary. I had a stretch and sweep when I went over dates...this is intervention but technically I didn't need it for life or death but I wanted it cause I wanted my daughter out. I also had the oxytocin injection post delivery...because I am a believer that prevention is better than cure. Having said that, I think that these are fairly minor interventions, there are many many medical interventions that occur on a daily basis, that are not necessary all the time and that can actually cause problems. I am aslo a big believer that as soon as there is human input...for example induction...there is a greater risk involved as someone is artificially doing something to you (having said that, it could be bad without it too). So I suppose what I am saying is that if there is a risk involved with that intervention that could cause harm to you or baby, then it should be absolutely medically necessary...but sometimes for your sanity and emotional state, you want intervention. I don't even know if I have made sense, I apologise (it's right in my head!).

[Liz]

Wow - reading through the old thread ...

Trish! To think back then you knew to keep the pool! LOL.