"Enjoy your Labor" by Gilbert Grant is GREAT!

[Toomanytoomany]

You are shouting in parts of your post (all caps) and calling the reasoning many women use "propaganda" and accuse "natural-birthers" of being biased from the get-go (even though as an author with a professional agenda to push, he is apparently not biased). I'm failing to see how that's not insulting to the intelligence of your audience here. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

I don't have any wish to read his book - I've had five labours, enjoyed four of them very much and have had little to no need of analgesia of any sort, let alone spinal anaesthesia. I'm sure that if his research is of a high quality, it will be included in all of the reviews and reports upon which I normally base my opinions.

[MantaRay]

It seems fatmama that you have an agenda - to sell the book - not to be part of the community. It is always suspicious when someone signs up just to post a recommendation. It's not like you are contributing to any other discussions.

On the subject of epidurals, personally I don't really care what the "experts" or "statistics" say. I know I would never have one again. I ended up with slowed labour, low bp, a baby in foetal distress, forceps, a tear and an episotomy. All that when my labour would have been quick and easy other wise, as I know now after having a fantastic epidural free birth the next time. And boy, I can tell you how much better it feels after giving birth without an epidural. If you've ever experienced both I can't imagine you'd ever choose an epidural again.

[Oorki Galoorki]

i have slept throught 2nd stage of labour with no epidural as that is what my body needed and it wasnt a un natural responce.

i would love for you to show me some of the references he has cited so i can check them out my self. but knowing the research i have looked at and am currently looking at for university that the common opinion is that epidurals shouldnt be used as a pain relief, they do slow labours down and have longer lasting after affects on many women.
i have not said there is no need for them.. just like c/s there is a needfor a 5 of them. but most doctors and a few women like to think its the best thing to have... when if dodctors where honest about the risks involved then most wouldnt want it.

i would love to know your story.
what did you have that meant you HAD to have an epidural?

[fatmama]

No agenda, and no shouting either. My italics are not working and I only put caps where italics would be. Shouting would be more obvious.

I didn't HAVE to have (yes italics again), an epi, but without it I would have had a c section. That was predicted and turned out to have been right as t hings went.

I know perfectly well many will not want them or disagree with it. That's fine. But read it first otherwise its not really fair is it? How do you know he's wrong yet?

I have posted elsewhere btw. I just discovered this site and goodness, I thought what a great topic it was to share info. Boy, obviously I was wrong.

I bet if I'd posted about Ina May I'd get whoops and kisses even though she has way less supporting data.

Doesn't matter. There may be a woman out there who reads this and who decides to read it and NOT to be scared off the epidural. This is for those women.

[christy]

Dou dou I too slept through my second stage of labour in between contractions. I loved feeling my baby move down the birth canal as well... it was like a celebration for us.

With my first labour, the epidural dropped my blood pressure so much that it caused heaps of issues. They had to turn off the drugs which then led to me being unable to move while the contractions ripped through my body and then... well it was traumatic.

I would suggest to move women to read more than one study on their own and with their birth support before listening to second hand advice.

[fatmama]

LOL - all your posts are second hand advice too my dear
And until you've read the evidence he presents you can't even argue with it. But well done at sticking to your guns. No one can say the midwife lobby isn't tenacious.

[christy]

I am not a part of the midwife lobby, thank you very much. I am someone who has had to do heaps of research leading up to my own birth, and am passionate about women having the opportunity to make decisions for themselves.

[fatmama]

Great, so am I. That's why I provided the info that I thought was relevant to this topic.
Congratulations, we both want women to make fully informed decisions. FULLY (italics) informed. Right?

[MantaRay]

There are no mws posting in this thread fatmama. Just experienced birthers sharing our experiences. And I could read 1000 books and none of it would change how I feel because my experience carries more weight for me.

I would be very interested to hear how an epidural prevented a c/s - given that it usually works the other way I am sure your story would be worth a read.

BTW - you can put words in italics but highlighting them and then pressing ctrl-I.

You have 9 posts and 8 are in this thread - what commission do you get for book sales?

[Oorki Galoorki]

Product Description
Enjoy Your Labor is an informative and easy-to-read book that contains everything an expectant mother needs to know about state-of-the-art options for pain relief for labor and delivery: epidurals and spinals. Enjoy Your Labor gives readers the facts about modern pain relief techniques. It is the only book that takes the fear, mystery and guilt out of epidurals and spinals. The author develops the premise that administration of medication to relieve labor pain is a sensible approach, and he explains the reasons women can and should get an epidural before the severe pain of labor starts - if they decide they want one. The refreshing view presented in Enjoy Your Labor regarding the timing of the epidural challenges the conventional wisdom, and is a radical departure from current approaches, where women typically delay getting an epidural for as long as possible - until the pain becomes unbearable. Enjoy Your Labor empowers women with the knowledge they need to help them make an informed choice about pain relief for childbirth. The author encourages readers to advocate for themselves, and to carefully consider and discuss the management of their labor and delivery pain with their health care providers before labor begins.

About the Author
Dr. Gilbert J. Grant has been Director of Obstetric Anesthesia at New York University Medical Center since 1992. He is also a faculty member of New York University School of Medicine, where he is an Associate Professor and Vice Chairman for Academic Affairs in the Department of Anesthesiology. Dr. Grant earned his MD degree from the University of Michigan Medical School in 1982. He then relocated to New York City, where he completed an internship in Obstetrics and Gynecology at Columbia Presbyterian Hospital before moving to New York University Medical Center where he completed a residency in anesthesiology. Dr. Grant has published numerous scientific papers and chapters for medical textbooks, and he lectures at educational institutions and scientific meetings in the United States and abroad.

this is what i found about the book.. seem like the usual bollocks that they have for "expectant" mothers

[Julie Doula]

FM, any woman giving birth in Australia can access an epidural if she wants one, and for the most part, within a reasonable period of time (and any undue delay is considered a failure of care). That's as it should be. A woman giving birth at home, or in a birth centre, who eventually decides, 'stuff this, I want an epidural', can transfer to hospital, and access one.

As a doula, I have supported at least one women (she actually planned a homebirth) in which a timely epidural was the appropriate use of technology, and it helped her avoid a c/s. Every midwife knows that the appropriate use of epidural, in difficult labours, can occasionally help avoid an unwanted or unnecessary c/s.

Any obstetric intervention carries risk - as the seasoned obstetrician who assisted my homebirthing client pointed out to her, as he carefully discussed with her her options (after 50 hours of labour which did not progress beyong 8 cm at home -hence we tf to hospital.)

Women don't need to fight for an epidural. It's on offer. Check out the peri-natal stats and see how many women who give birth in hospital end up having one.

Yet research and experience combine to demonstrate that for many low risk women, continuous emotional support, continuity of care from a known, self-chosen midwife, and access to a deep birth pool to labour in, greatly reduce requests for epidurals.

Australian birthers can easily access epidurals. Women in Australia cannot easily access:
- continuity of care from a known, self-chosen midwife
- midwife-led care by midwives who are autonomous professionals, who not reduced to 'obstetric nurses' and are actually enabled to practice the midwifery model of care, as defined by Marsden Wagner.
- birth pools
- continuous emotional support
- freedom of movement and mobility (this varies from institution to institution)
- privacy (ditto)
- funded homebirth.

How I wish all of the above was as esaily accesible, and actually ON the menu of birth choices for Australian women, as epidurals!

Needing an epidural is a perfectly valid reason to have one. So is wanting one. And you can have one. Usually the anaesthetist is in your room within half an hour of the request.

Try asking to labour in a birth pool. Or for your own midwife. Or for there to be no changes of shift while you give birth. Or for funded homebirth. Or for practicing rights for your two homebirth midwives in the event of a transfer. Or the right to have a VBAC labour in a birth centre.

% of women in Australia who have an epidural: 28%

% of who have a homebirth: 1.7%

% who have use of a birth pool in labour: 3%

FM, you're hardly the persecuted minority being hounded or pressured in any way by the 'tenacious midwife lobby' (otherwise known as consumers who have found through personal experience that there is ample support for the obstetric model of care - but if you want to know about natural birth options, be prepared to take responsibility to find out for yourself, and to fight for your rights.)

Not sure what your agenda is. Have you ever experienced difficulty on obtaining an epidural in the Australian hospital system?

It's not epidurals that aren't getting a far rap, it's natural birth. And natural birth hormones. As explained so well here.

By the way, I really enjoyed the three labours I experienced without epidurals. I mean, I really enjoyed them.

[Tobily]

Hi Mamallama

I've been a party to quite an indepth discussion about this particular book on another site.
In the course of that discussion, after some research it turned out that the study this author based his book on was comparing women who had epidurals with women who had other forms of pain relief - mainly opiates. There was no data comparing women who had no pain medication with those who had epidurals.

After that, I pretty much stopped listening.

Perhaps you would be so kind as to post a link to that study so that others may read it for themselves. Since it formed the basis for his whole book and all.

You might find a willing audience for your propaganda elsewhere. But you won't find it here.

[Peg]

Doesn't matter. There may be a woman out there who reads this and who decides to read it and NOT to be scared off the epidural. This is for those women.

im not scared off by them...i've had 3 myself lol

I appreciate the ideal 'natural birth' senario , but lets face it, birthing is not easy or pretty or mystical in any way...its damn hard and in the years before the C-section was used, women died. Many women died during childbirth.

I did try to do it naturally, but my body wanted no part of it so it became a matter of 'just get the baby out'

the epidural was like being in heaven after a solid 28 hours of labor!

[Tobily]

*sound of crickets chirping*

Gee. Awful quiet in here all of a sudden.

~E~
x

[MantaRay]

The thing that I found, was that I didn't have the right information going into the birth. I seriously didn't even know that lying on my back would be the worst possible position in terms of both pain and speedy labour. I mean after all, they're always on their backs in movies and on TV!

So when I was told to lie on my back for an internal and then got a contraction (the first one that hurt, I wonder if that's a coincidence), then they said "it will be at least 8 hours more of this pain and the anaethisist is about to leave - have an epidural now or you won't have a choice", and then badgered me when I was uncertain - well I believed them and had it. And later regretted it.

I think what would be really useful for women is to have birthing positions and active labour explained to them, and the pros and cons of pain relief better explained. Sure I was told there were risks with an epidural, but no-one told me how much more likely intervention was going to be, no-one told me that I would have pain for weeks afterwards because I would need an episotomy due to forceps use, no-one told me that having an epidural makes you feel like an invalid after the birth, rather than fantastic and invincible like you do after a drug free birth. I was also told of the "1/100" risk of severe headache. After the epidural was in, the anaethesist told me that I would have been that 1/100 with a less experienced doctor, as I had a very small space and he nearly missed it. Very reassuring!

[BloominRoses]

For what it's worth, before this thread started (and finding out my Papp A score is low thus maybe necessitating a c/s), I admit that I was one of those gals who always imagined herself screaming for "drugs, more drugs" during labour.

Now however, after reading some of the comments from others, I am off to research natural labour and birth techniques.

Probably not the outcome FM was hoping for, but again, it's all about choice. And the thought of an episiotomy due to forcep use that wouldn't even be necessary without an epidural honestly scares me more than any pain associated with labour does.

Plus, after doing some Googling of my own, I'm not sure that the studies in this book have been presented in a completely forthcoming and relevant light.

I swear, if any of those people close to me could read this post where I state I'm debating giving up my adamance of being drugged to the hilt if I feel I'm in 'too much pain', I honestly think they'd suffer severe shock. I'm still hell-bent on having a bit of lip gloss on and cute jammies but that's about it.

And this is another example why I finally stopped lurking and started posting. I love this site and all of the invaluable information and sharing of experiences that it contains.

Shari xo