It's just bizarre (or maybe not)...

[briggsy's girl]

i might be naive having not been there before - but i continue to struggle with how the medical profession see a NEED to medicalise and control birth!!! it's supposed to be a NATURAL part of life ffs!! yes, there are times when there genuinely needs to be intervention - but it's not as common as it's made out to be - and the fact that they poo poo VBAC, but don't do the same with induction (when, from what i've read, the risks are just as high, if not higher, for something to go wrong...) - it annoys me. most of us, particular first time parents - have NO real idea (well, we wouldn't without BB!!) - and we're being led astray because we have faith that medico's would do the right thing by US, not by their schedule and their hip pocket!


Kel - just want to say it again - thanks for BB - the support and information here is amazing - and i'm sure there are a lot of other people out there like me that would have blind faith in what we're being told - you encourage us to think outside our comfort zones, to question the "establishment" - it's a credit to you and the hard work you've put in! thanks hun!

[paradise lost]

I know one woman who's had 2 sections, the first being because of failure to progress with an induction. She's pregnant again and has serious (level 3?) placenta accretia. They have told her she will "probably" need a hysterectomy at birth and if not then cannot breastfeed as she'll have to have chemo. I've been present at an induction too Kel and it was the most horrific thing i've ever seen. Not for ALL the tea in China, thanks.

Bx

[SamiH]

Kelly - OMG I had dinner and put the kids to bed and look at this thread now!

Yes - I have already engaged a doula in Canberra and we are working on my birth plan after I rough it out. I too am confident that with her we will be better placed at the starting blocks this time around - and with a great acupunture practitioner looking after me too

But hey third time around, gotta fall out doesn't it??

[BellyBelly]

Was she posterior or malpositioned Kirsty? I had mec with my first too, they do like to hurry labour up when there is mec as it can be dangerous but not all the time. My Ob didn't bat an eyelid when he saw mec, just ordered the drip up. I asked if I could have waters broken only and he said no. Yet if I would have had a doula, from the moment I got into hospital at about 1pm until the Ob got there at 8pm with no progress, I would have been off the bed, walking, moving - perhaps things could have been different, but I didnt know and laboured on the bed (well, sorta, contractions died off @ 5cm!).

Yep it's hard MummaB but it could have gone either way. You could have had Kirsty's experience too. So many things influence labour, psychological and other. I have been to births where the mother was a sexual abuse survivor, and they had tough, tough births. It's really distressing to me to see how she came undone and there was nothing I could do. Yet I find myself surrounded with people I know who are abuse survivors - it's very upsetting that its so common. You have people with other relationship issues which can have detremental effects, the mind is potent in labour and the best person to help someone have the best birth is an independent midwife, because she KNOWS the woman, her story, initmately through lots of in depth visits before the birth, during the whole birth - they know her. In hospital they don't know you, or your story... hospital is a minefield of things waiting to happen. Not home.

Awwww thanks BG. It is all about getting outside your comfort zone. If we don't consider other options/evidence etc then it can be dangerous.

[kirsty_lee]

Kell, well my waters had broken at home and thats when I went in. From what the midwifes told me she was in the "perfect" birthing position. head down bum up, ready to go. All i kept hearing was that my cervix was really hard to find. But from what i was told in the beginning a cesar wasn't even on anyones mind. They wouldnt let me get up and walk around which is what i wanted to try and get things moving. Im almost positive within myself that if i had of been able to walk around before my epidural things would of got better. but instead they made me lie on the bed.

[Tobily]

Yep...it astounds me that a woman will be hounded about the risks of VBAC from the second she says out loud that she wants one, until she's pushing that baby out....but induction is thrown out willy nilly despite it having a similar risk of rupture and in first time mums, a scandalously high risk of caesarean.

I know when I was given the drip, when I didn't know any better, NO ONE ever explained the risks to me. No one explained there were any risks AT ALL involved in an induction. And I know from working with women as a doula that my experience is the rule, not the exception.

So much for informed choice eh.

[kirsty_lee]

same tobily! that's what makes me feel so cheated and lied to!!!! no one kicked up a fuss nothing! i was warned about an epidural why couldnt they warn me about induction?! EVEN when i was sh.itting myself about it they still said 'oh it's nothing just a little needle'

[Beach Mama]

Yep - bizzare is right and Mel, I'm with you - makes me cross too because I was induced and the risks were NEVER mentioned yet here I am now braced and ready to fight for my VBAC. I have a Dr's appointment at the hospital in the morning and am prepared for battle - let me tell ya! Must be easier for them to know when they have mothers coming in rather than not knowing so they can schedule dr's etc. Plus they must know that a certain % who are induced end up with epi's and then c/s too.

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

*sobs* what good is it anyway? A woman can be as educated as she wants, can want to have support, but the second her ****ing husband decides the doctors know her body better than she does then BAM, the woman is ignored because there's someone else there who will sign the forms.

Seriously, is there any point me hiring a doula next time? My DH will just tell the docs to go ahead despite what I say and he'll be listened to and not a doula. (I know, next time I'm freebirthing, no medical people, no DH... bliss! Just what I wanted for DS!) No risks are ever mentioned about inductions and if a woman mentions them she's dismissed as being silly and so midwives and obs "must" be right.

I just don't see the point of trying to have a decent birth. I really don't. No matter what the woman wants it can just go out the window like that.

[ll80]

I didn't know until I joined these forums that there were any risks with being induced.

I was induced with my DD after my waters had broken naturally at home and labour had not progressed, I had no contractions from my waters breaking at 10pm til 8am next morning other than light period pains, which I know probably were contractions but nothing as good as they would have liked I guess.

I had one dose of the synct. drip I think they start it at 40 I am not sure and went from nothing to OH MY GOD I am gonna die. The midwives did try to get me moving around as much as you can with the drip she was guiding it for me but all I wanted to do was curl up on the bed and die. Boy oh boy did I suck on that gas, I also had a pethadine shot.

My labour was from 830am when the put the drip in til 11:50am, no other interventions, after reading everyone elses experiences I think I was very lucky. I'm really glad that this time I am more educated about induction and will definately be asking if they can wait longer should the same thing happen again.

Just out of curiosity, once your waters have broken how long is it safe to not go into labour or have contractions.
How big is the risk of infection compared to the risks of being induced?

..Laura

[paradise lost]

Ryn i know you want to Freebirth, and i'm sure that will go great, but if you DID want a medically attended birth you could:

Book a homebirth - my midwives only spoke with me, in between contractions. They didn't talk to DP or even ask him any questions about how i'd been - UK middies ASSUME DH/P will be clueless! LOL. I know DH isn't keen on homebirth - tell him to shove it. If he won't allow it in "his" house you can come here (deadly serious) and transfer care. Glasgow Middies are great.

You can book a doula who has a STRONG personality and will fight, even with DH, to get you the birth you want. You can tell her to do so.

You can tell DH that he has proven himself an unreliable presence at a birth and thus he will not be gifted with watching his next child come into the world. I know that probably reads a really harsh to a lot of people, but i don't believe the pain you went through at the time or since is worth his ego or his fear. If he can't take the heat he needn't come in the kitchen next time.

You can put in your medical notes that NO medical decisions are to be made by him and that in the absence of your ability to converse they should refer to your birth plan and follow it to the letter. You then make them read and sign, copy and file said command and if he is asked anything you sue their arses off.

to you hun. You were disempowered in the delivery room, but you needn't stay that way.

Lots of love

Bx

[paradise lost]

Just out of curiosity, once your waters have broken how long is it safe to not go into labour or have contractions.
How big is the risk of infection compared to the risks of being induced?

The risks of infection are high IF YOU GET ONE. If you don't get one the risk of induction are massively higher (because the baby would have been perfectly fine to stay put). If your waters broke at 23 weeks they would monitor you for infection (temperature rise is the first and biggest sign) and give you antibiotics if needed, treatment to stop labour, and bedrest for MONTHS to keep the baby inside. There is no "maximum" safe time. 90% of women whose waters have broken will go into labour naturally within 72 hours. I don't know why they induce after 12. It's beyond logic.

[SamiH]

I just checked this policy at my appt last week too - 18 hours from waters breaking they give anti's and then induce if no progression. So I was lucky I got to 26 hours first time around

[BellyBelly]

In the Monash here in Melbourne, one of our biggest teaching hospitals, where your waters have broken normally, they will allow 3 days. But you can negotiate so many things...

What Happens When Your Waters Break

There is no regulation of doulas and its very scary. Their personalities vary, their teachings vary, as do their passion, enthusiasm and all the rest. Some are happy to just be there, get you facewashers etc. Some are happy to fight for you. I love complex and challenging births. I love the look on women's faces when they accomplish what they were told was impossible. I love a challenge, I am not going to just sit there and watch a woman be swallowed up by the system and spat out with PND, PTSD or worse. I am there to make it the best possible birth for her. Not talking myself up here, this is my passion and I am currently taking some time off so I can be fired up for my clients in a few months time It's very draining and stressful work but so worth it, you need to recharge often when you operate in this sort of way.

[bon]

This is what really annoys me about my first two births - post partum haemorrhage for both of them, and the only common thread was I was induced with synto both times. I even told the OB the second time that I had PPH with my first birth and it was a concern for me, and he didn't say anything at all about synto being a risk, and in my case the most likely cause for my bleeds (third birth was spontaneous, no synto and no drugs beside gas and what do you know! no bleed). I actually wonder how many OBs and midwives actually know all the risks of induction - maybe its the non-cynical side of me, I just don't want to believe that medical professionals know these risks and don't inform woman of them. But then the cynical side of me says of course they know, they just believe they know better than the woman herself what is good for her.

Medicalised birth has been happening for hundreds of years - since at least the 1700s, when forceps were first invented and doctors were so excited about them they used them on just about every woman who used their services - subsequently many women experienced horrific births resulting oftentimes in death to them or their babies. In those days you were lucky if you couldn't afford an OB and just got the local midwife - statistically you were much more likely to survive the experience.

[Kazbah]

Thanks for this Kelly. Next pregnancy I definately want a doula - I'd prefer a homebirth but DH has major issues with that.

[BellyBelly]

Can you ask him if he will at least meet with a midwife? I think its all so unknown, so if they can at least be familiar with a person who might be there and hear their experience and comforting words it can change. Have you seen the business of being born? That really makes people question things

[Kazbah]

Kel - I can't even get him to chat with a psychologist who wants to discuss *my* mental health! He's supportive as far as he can - if being in hospital means that I get my "natural" birth, then that's a small price to pay. But he's not good at making decisions, which is where I think a doula will be invaluable - making my desires known.

but I do need to see that presentation.