Would just like to point out that you don't give yourself pre-eclampsia. I was perfectly relaxed about my pregnancy until I got preeclampsia... that made me stressed.:
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Would just like to point out that you don't give yourself pre-eclampsia. I was perfectly relaxed about my pregnancy until I got preeclampsia... that made me stressed.:
Mmmm, I think saying that your OB won't let you go past a certain day is not accurate in your case. Your OB doesn't reccommend that you go past this date and you have made a decision to follow his advice. This decision you have based on your own knowledge and the fact that you trust him. It's is not a decision he has made, it is a decision you have made. And I think that is what previous posters were referring to. Not that you should always go against your OB's reccommendation or that he shouldn't have an opinion in the first place, but that we as pregnant women need to make our own choices and own them.:
Sasa
Hey Rory....ever thought that your thread would get this response ;)
Totally agree with you BG. I never understand why their is so much OB bashing on this site? I say, thank god for OB's, hosptials, interventions, pain relief....:
With my pregnancy of my second child by bp was around 150/110 in the final weeks and yet I had no obvious physical pre-eclampsia symptoms. If I had decided to "freebirth" I would of put myself and my baby's life at risk. Fortunately I was induced and I had a positive birth expierence and when I say "positive" I am stating the fact that my baby was born alive and healthy. To me this is the important issue. Should I have not had faith in my Ob the outcome may have been very different.
*sigh - WHAT ob bashing?
Tegam - no, but I should have known it would ;)
Diamond (and also BG, who I think first mentioned women might ignore OBs advice where problems arise) I think the point most of us seem to be making here, and the one I was trying to make when I entitled this thread as an "unnecessary intervention" vent, was that often women face intervention where it is not warranted at all. Not at the time, not in hindsight - not at all. Wanting the right to avoid unnecessary intervention is worlds away from a freebirth. It's like saying if you want to cut back on red meat you must be a wanna-be vegan! Its a spectrum, not a see-saw.
Personally, Diamond, if you or any other woma ise keen to have a birth with pain relief, an OB on standby, in a hospital with interventions at your doctor's fingertips, then I am happy for you and wish you well. Because for today's birthing mother that is the norm - the world is catering for people with your approach to birth. But if like me you would like the chance to have a baby without unnecessary (there's that word again) intervention, with a midwife on standby instead of an OB and maybe in a birth centre or even at home, them this site (and its "OB bashing" as you put it) is a beacon in the darkness.
From my perspective, it is important to have a healthy baby AND a good birthing experience. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive (in fact numerous studies show that statistically the two are reliant upon each other!). Not EVERY birth is dangerous, not EVERY intervention is warranted. Every situation is different, which is why it is important to not put women who are able/lucky/blessed/whatever to be able to birth without intervention should NOT be put in the same risk basket with someone with high BP, placenta preavia (sp?), or whatever.
Well said Roryroy.
I guess the one thing we can all agree upon is the importance knowledge and self education when it comes to pregnancy and child birth. With this, it allows us to make own personal informed decisions about our bodies and our babies. No matter what our preferences are. ;)
:clap::clap:There is no way i could have said it better!:clap::clap::
Hmm. I have stayed out of here but I do want to say my piece. Not all intervention is bad - no-one is saying that. But the fact is that some, maybe even a lot, of intervention is unnecessary. This is a costly burden to our health systems. And mostly when unnecessary intervention is started, it begins a cascade which causes complications.
I know this from experience. Both my labours should have been quick and easy. The second one, with no intervention, was. The first one was to begin with. Then the ob broke my waters without consultation. I was lying on my back and felt very strong contractions after the waters broke. No-one told me that I could ease them by getting into a better position (or in fact would let me get into a better position, because the waters suggested their MAY have been meconium, so a fetal monitor went on immediately. Then while I was lying flat on my back with exaggerated contractions, they told me the anaesthetist was about to leave for the evening so I need to have an epidural immediately, or I'd not have the option again. So of course I gave in to pressure and said yes. As a result my bp dropped and I couldn't even have my head raised to push. The labour slowed and DS went into foetal distress. I couldn't feel the pushing properly, and forceps were used. So I ended up tearing, needing an episotomy and getting haemorrhoids. I was in pain for weeks afterwards. And guess what - there was no meconium after all!!
After my 3 hour, almost intervention free second birth, I had no pain and no complications. I know that my first birth would have been the same if they hadn't started the cascade with the ARM. I know that the intervention was unnecessary and was the cause of all the subsequent interventions.
This is what people mean by unnecessary interventions. They do happen and often.
There has to be a happy medium here surely. I think that there are times on BB when obs are written about very harshly. Sometimes this is warranted, other times not. I don't think this thread was intended to make everyone decide to home birth. simply to vent about the women out there who are being misinformed by their caregivers. Not always obs; it was the ultrasonographer who tried to tell me I wouldn't be able to birth DS1 as he was too big, my ob said not to worry.
Diamond, I think you fit into the category of people who are OK with their birth experience as you know it was needed. Me too. I have experienced a birth with necessary intervention (severe preeclampsia and emergency c/s at 38 weeks) and a VBAC with minimal intervention (ARM). You also need to realise that not all people are high risk. People don't home or freebirth if they are high risk. Even people with the intention of homebirth generally would have health checks throughout their pregnancies and if they developed preeclampsia, as we did, or some other serious problem, would do what was safest.
What we do need is to be able to rely on caregivers to give us the right information. Not to recommend early induction because a baby might be too big.
Berme I am actually one who had a degree of praise for my OB with my first birth. He did suggest I stay in hospital overnight once my waters broke but when I insisted (quite firmly, several times), he "let" me go home. He did have me on my back and legs in the air when I had a POSTERIOR baby turtle-ing in and out for 2 hours, but he didn't use forceps or order a caesar. He did give me an epi (after asking - after hours of labour he could have said "can I shoot you" and I would have said yes) but had no problem with not cutting the cord til after it stopped pulsating. And so it goes.
So all it all he did a good job - for an OB with the weight of interventionist practice behind him he was pretty restrained. And if you wanted an OB who was open to natural-"ish" hospital births he would be a good choice. But nothing beats having a baby with a midwife who doesn't even give you an internal and just helps you get comfortable!
And LOL you are right in that this thread wasn't intended to convince people to homebirth. For all my talk about non-intervention I am too much of scardey cat to birth at home. So long as I can have a midwife with me and birth in a birth centre, I personally don't want to be away from medical attention if need be. I do still want a hospital and OB, somewhere, close by. Just not in the same damn room, until I REALLY need them, thanks......
My thoughts exactly. I mean, I am "high risk" but still not high enough to have an ob around. Paed for the baby to make sure he/she isnt adversely affected by my anti-e antibodies, and a bag of syntocinon 'just in case' I have another PPH.. but still no ob.:
Why? Because it would be a pointless waste of money for the hospital when I am still not in a position that one is needed! Funny what minimal funding will make a hospital admit. :)
So no. No ob bashing.. If I ever need one, then I bloody well want one!
I have had one high intervention birth - my first, induced due to pre eclampsia, followed up with a PPH - but it was warranted. And despite the fact that it was not what I would class as a good experience, I cannot fault the care I received from the OBs who attended me, especially at the end when I haemorrhaged. My second birth, the intervention was unwarranted. I was induced with the drip, and had ARM all because my waters had broken 12 hours before and things were not happening. I haemorrhaged again, which I now know was because of the syntocinon, of which one of the many side affects can be PPH. Ironic, considering they actually use synto to help stop a PPH in progress. Still, I don't blame the OB who attended me - I was given the option to 'wait and see', but I chose the induction because I wanted things to happen. Both those experiences, though, made me all the more aware of how easy it is to experience a cascade of interventions, and also made me very aware of the fact that I want to avoid induction at all costs - because I fully believe that it is being induced that made me bleed after the births (although I know the hospital would deny it). The first time, it was for the good of me and DS. The second time, it was unnecessary. My third birth, completely spontaneous, attended only by a midwife, no interventions at all - and no PPH. I know what birth I want this time around.
:clap: exactly how I feel! If only I could express it so eloquently. This is why I chose a case load midwifery program at a birth centre in a large public hospital.:
I know what kind of birth id want!:dance::
In recent months I know of 3 ladies using the same very exclusive private hospital and ob. I made an observation ...All 3 were told that their bubs may be bigger, all 3 were induced at around 39wks, all inductions happened on a Sunday evening for a Monday delivery. This made we wonder if the Ob has golf or some thing on the other days of the week and likes to scedule his births.
BTW all bubs were under 3.8kgs!!!!
BekZ, I think you are not giving this OB enough credit. 3.8kg is a huuuuge baby that is quite obviously way too big to deliver naturally at full term (or whenever things happen without intervention)!!!
Sorry, I hope everyone realises that that comment was tongue in cheek.
A friend of mine had a baby girl at almost 3.9kg. Which if you ask me is a nice size (she and her husband are tall people). She had her naturally at the BC. When she went back to her original OB (she had seen him before being accepted into the BC), and he heard that her bubba was this big, he said: Oh, are you sure you didn't have Gestational Diabetes? Because a baby this large is not normal. What the???
Sasa
You've got to be joking? He would think I was a medical freak then, my smallest baby was that big! I hope she rolled her eyes and didn't listen to that!
I have to say I think I've been really blessed with my Ob as well. He is very anti intervention as well. Even given that my bub is in the 75 - 90% size wise he keeps telling me I'll be fine and he won't be inducing me unless he has to. He would much rather I go over and go into labour naturally. Even when my BP rose the other day he was like, "we might put you on blood pressure medication if it continues to stay up and then if that's not doing anything we may induce you!" and I was 39w1d at the time. So it's not like I've still got weeks to go. I'm glad that he's been so supportive and encouraging. It can be a rare thing in an Ob :D
I am all for birth centres! Unfortunately, despite my VBAC being a breeze, I don't think one would take me. As it turned out, my ob was really only in the room with me for about 5 minutes during labour and then to stitch me up after. I completely agree that IS how it should be until there is a problem.
I am still stumped as to why a baby's weight is such an issue. Obviously people should stop thinking about it so much, but if we are going to freak out about anything surely it should be head circumference, not weight. The chub round the middle isn't the bit that is hard to get out. :lol: Personally I think we need to stop scans late in pregnancy simply to estimate weight. I didn't have any scans after 20 weeks so wouldn't have had a clue about bub's size except for fundus height. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.
Wow, 3.9kg is big huh? That is crazy! Both my boys were 3.9kg and I had no problems (not that the same goes for everyone, but I hear that size isn't always the issue). But it goes back to my point - not every woman should be lumped into the same risk category.
I am a hospital based midwife who has seen it all. The birth disasters caused by hospital/midwife/Dr incompetence. I have participated in lots of beautiful, empowering hospital births.I have looked after woman brought in after home birth disasters. I have cared for women who have had terrible medicalized (hamburger with the lot) births who have been very happy, some very unhappy. I have cared for women who have had very straight forward normal births who have been very traumatized by the whole thing.
Everyone makes choices about birth that are right for them given the information they are given.
I believe in making informed choices. The information may come from many varied sources.
I am a childbirth educator keen to help women prepare for birth. The biggest factor I see that undoes the best laid out birth plans is an inability to cope with labour pain and the choices surrounding pain relief.
Unfortunately some of the women entering hospital to give birth are like lambs to the slaughter.
I am offering workshop based, small group, childbirth education to anyone interested in preparing for birth. I can't promise a perfect, normal, intervention free birth, but I can help women avoid some of the pitfalls associated with hospital based births. My email is francesj@dcsi.net.au if anyone is interested. The classes are held in Warragul.