just an little "unnecessary intervention" vent

[Roryrory]

Is it just me or are others saddened when you hear stories of pregnant women being interferred with by their OBs? Just today I overheard a woman at work talking about her impending second birth and she mentioned she was being induced a week early. Why? Because her last baby was big and this one might be too. SHE WAS ONLY 30 WEEKS ALONG! How the heck would they know the baby would be "too big" if she went full term??

vent over.

[Olive]

seems its happening all too often which is sad.

[*Ash*]

I'm with you. It annoys the hell out of me. It's such a fear-based approach, and it is so disempowering for women.

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

I've just come to accept that's the way of life. And why I'm not even going for a scan should I get pg again, not go to the GP to confirm pregnancy, give birth alone at home... just to stop these idiots torturing me again.

[BellyBelly]

Oooooh yeah. I was so excited about opening the pregnancy centre and helping women with natural therapies but quickly I started to get down because day after day women would come in for natural inductions after threats for all sorts of reasons, big baby the main one... but its so frustrating and infuriating... I hear you, welcome to my working week LOL

[briggsy's girl]

i think i must be under one of the most anti-intervention Ob's in history - even given high BP, permanent tachycardia and a very stressed out mummy, he won't intervene at this point cos my cervix isn't favourable and he doesn't want to do anything to put us at more risk of c/s birth. i was peeved yesterday, but when i calmed down, i realised how unique this Ob is and i really do appreciate that he's not allowing MY fears to impact and lead to a medicalised birth. we do have an induction date if things don't happen naturally by then (due to BP and tachy) but he's not rushing things, hoping that nature takes it's course.

i know a lot of people have been frightened into intervention by Ob's at the other local hospital so i'll admit i chose the hospy i did (three times as far travel wise) to try to avoid this... stuff like "big babies" is (mostly) a big furphie...

i'm going to be getting Ap to help with natural induction if i can between now and the "last day" he'll let me go. will depend if my chiro/ap will do it though - he is another anti-intervention fella! i'm surrounded by them! lol

[Roryrory]

BG it sounds like you are on a winner with your OB!

I mentioned this vent to DH and he is really pro-natural birth but he did make the point that the woman may have had an awful time last time so had reasons for wanting the intervention (which I acknowledge), so I know its a generalisation but gee can't you see her having a bad time this time round as well?

[[M]umma[M]ia]

i know! its annoying to hear. Being a first timer tho i do understand with other first timers, u sorta just do what your told. But oh my.... for the next one i have grown alot of balls! lol

[Bathsheba]

I know, it's frustrating. Having been through 2 inductions I would never wish them on anyone. I think the main problem is that most women think an induced labour is not that much different to one that is allowed to start naturally That's why BB is so valuable.

Bigger picture: I think that sometimes a society will only change their ways if you let them be misguided long enough for them to realise they are doing it wrong. Only after enough mistakes are made will people (as a whole) be convinced and realise. it's frustrating to watch this happen... but sometimes time just has to pass. I am confident that in as little as 10 years the birth industry (sorry if this phrase offends some) will be a different (for the better) place.... mainly due to technology like online forums getting the word out that (for example) birthing big babies is often no harder than birthing small ones.... and anecdotally (from what I have heard) is actually often easier!

Sorry for all those brackets too! LOL

[Ozziehoffy]

OMG.... YES!!! A friend of mine had her little girl 3 wks before Elijah was born but they were talking possible induction for the same reason!! In the end the doc at hossy said no we'll let you go. I was so happy to hear that cos I was worried about the stupid reason! Turned out bub was pretty much same size as 1st one - 4.2kg approx... she's not a small frame so def no prob.

When they started to tell me at 36 wks bub was at least 8 lb already I tild them I didn't feel he was and I was right - full term 8 lb 4. I was lucky the doc at the hossy was good cos I was telling him how stupid I thought it was having a scan to determine bub's size and he was goes well there's only one way to find out if the baby is too big and that's to go into labour and even then it's very RARE that a baby is too big for medical reasons. YAY DOC!!

[bon]

How is inducing a week early going to guarantee a "smaller" baby anyway? It seems to be more of a need for the Ob to 'manage' everything.

[KatieRabbit]

I am hearing you Roryrory. Just last week a relative was induced because she was one week over the due date (the concept which should be abolished or the ESTIMATED aspect highlighted) and as happens to (some) other first timers who are induced, led to a c/s a couple of days later. Makes me so cross that they don't leave baby alone till it is ready to come out!

[Jas]

well she got the last one out didnt she...so whats the prob with a big baby anyway?

[Tegam]

If I can add to the vent! MY biggest peve is when people say

Something like "It's the last day he'll let me go??"

Like it's the OB's choice... I mean really they are not going to come to your home, pick you up, take you to hospital and stick gel on your privates!

Vocabulary like that insinuates that the parent/s dont have a CHOICE and that's why nothing will change! As how can one make change if we dont make ourselves accountable for the decisions WE made and the positions WE put ourselves into for that to be the outcomes. Dr's arn't out there roaming the streets cutting pregnant women open or inducing them.

NOW before I get millions of reply's jumping down my throat at those last comments let me finish...please....

I DO also work within this medical system that does EVERYTHING in its power to keep women as ill informed as possible. Yes there are some not nice Drs and Midwives out there (but that's the case in every profession) ! And we all agree that that is the case. BUT again if we can ALL identify this then it can NOT possibly be used as an excuse when we knew that already...

That's why I believe that SO MANY women have a better 2nd birth experience....as HOLLYE said...we grow some balls the 2nd time around...

So as I see it we need forums like this to help bring NATURAL birth back to the "norm" for 1st timers and support them to have enough strength in such a scary time to stand up for themselves and their babies!

Does everyone like me again or have I still offended people??

[briggsy's girl]

Tegam - i can understand what you're saying, but there still needs to be a limit put on how far past EDD people go. i have, and will continue, to accept that my OB has an endate that he won't let me "go past" - this is in the best interests of myself and my baby. i know this. my situation may not be considered normal for many reasons, but you can't tar everyone with the same brush. i'm not "uneducated" i'm not "blindly taking his word for it" - i know of my own medical issues, i know what CAN happen and i'm not prepared to tell my Ob to jam it and put myself and my Gremlin at risk simply so that i can feel "empowered".

provided you know what benefits and risks exist for every possible outcome (waiting, inducing, cs etc) you can make an educated decision as to whether to follow the advice handed to you by your Ob (or middie, GP whoever) or to discard it. i have chosen to follow my Ob's recommendations. so yes, i DO have a date he "won't let me go past" - and that isn't a bad thing!

please keep in mind that people with genuine health issues (which may not manifest in visible ways) which INCLUDE mental health issues (anxiety anyone?), having an endate in mind CAN actually help them relax enough about what is to come for spontaneous labour to occur. and making them feel blind or naive for taking that advice from their care provider doesn't help at all - just adds to the already rampant "what the hell is going on with my body/baby??" thoughts that are running through their head.

as to your comments that the medical profession does everything in it's power to keep women uninformed - i believe you'll find that the medical profession doesn't help to educate ANYONE - if you don't self-educate, you simply won't know. that is something we, as CONSUMERS of medical advice, need to change for ourselves - medical professionals don't necessarily have the time or resources to educate everyone - so we all have to take responsibility for educating ourselves.

i do agree that there are enough first time parents who are not given the "bigger picture" of birthing, the implications of induction/intervention vs natural birth to raise concern - but there needs to be more support for education, rather than just bagging the medical profession. child birth education needs to be more available in a non-confrontational situation for everyone - for far too many people, their only exposure is hospital run birthing classes - group sessions with dodgy old videos of people giving birth...

sorry - it may seem i'm being argumentative - but as a first time mother, sometimes reading threads of this nature make it feel like you're basically being accused of being uninformed simply because you have chosen to trust in your care provider! there needs to be a balance of education and acceptance. we all have a right to choose our mode of care and that should be respected. yes, stand up and make sure there is information out there to ensure people are educated as much as possible, but don't make people feel bad for making the choices they make simply because they don't equate to a "natural/normal" birth as it stands....

[Janie]

BG, I hear where you're coming from, but......

The way I read Tegam's post was more that she was saying that it's the way it's worded, rather than the intention ITMS. As in, there's nothing wrong with having an end date, all pregnancies have to come to an end but that saying "s/he will/won't LET me" implies that as patients, we have no say in the matter. Which of course we do. Informed or not, we can choose to follow our HCPs advice, or we can choose to disregard it.

I agree that for some (maybe most) having an end date is important, I really understand what you're saying. But I also agree with Tegam that the language we use is very powerful, and implying that a patient must blindly go along with their HCP must influence the thinking of alot of people.

I hope that doesn't come across as argumentative, I don't mean it to be! I agree with both of you, I just think BG that maybe you misunderstood what Tegam was trying to say.

[briggsy's girl]

i understood the context - just wanted to jump in and remind people that words can can be very damaging. the statement "he won't let me go past" is something i myself have said - it's a statement. not an intention of fact. if i choose not to present at the hospital that day, so be it. but it's easier to say "he won't let me go past" than to say "he's going to look at induction that day, all things being equal, due to the fact that i have x y and z going on with my health and the doctor believes it to be in my best interests".

i am in something of an emotionally fragile state at the moment due to many things - the birth of our bubba being one of them - however, i'm still educating myself. i just want to be the voice of reason to remind people that not everyone reading a thread like this will have had the opportunity to educate themselves and some of the statements here having a dig at the medical professionals MIGHT be enough for people to start doubting the intentions of their doctor and, as a result, MAY have dire consequences.... just asking people to keep it in mind that's all. i know we, as in the general BB community, want for everyone to be as empowered and educated as they possibly can be - but we also have to be VERY careful of the language used. i have had dealings with everyone who has posted in here, so i know the context with which they post - a casual reader/non member may not and may take things in a very different context to what they are intended

[Inertia]

Tegam - i can understand what you're saying, but there still needs to be a limit put on how far past EDD people go.

Obviously this would need to be on a case by case basis. My first two babes would have been induced on the current "limit" of 40+10.

I have 4 sisters and only 1 of us isnt a mum yet. So out of the 4 of us, half of us were induced on the first baby. It would have been 75%, but I refused to be induced. Thats a scary number. You can't honestly tell me that 75% of new mums are at risk of their baby dying in utero from carrying over.

Going back to that microcosm, one had a normal induction, the other ended up with epi, epi and forceps. Do I want to know how mine could have ended up? Would I have been the one wheeled to theatre?

The problem with putting a limit on past edd - like they have right now at 40+10, is its "one size fits all". Any limit needs to be designed on the individual circumstances of the woman presenting.

This is where education is key. Now as I said in my blog post - when it came to my DHs Carpel Release surgery, his doctor sat there for like an hour explaining the procedure and risks, as well as any alternatives. When UTD with Haz, I was told "You will be induced on the 21st" and that was it. So yes, they do educate - just not pregnant women.