What is Vit K made of?

[sirhokko]

Vitamin K which is routinely given to babies following birth is made from cow bile. How often is this information given to women before they inject the baby? I would love to hear from anyone who's Ob told them this.

Lisa Barrett

[Lucy]

Mine did. We discussed it at about my 36 week appt of my first pregnancy.

My second OB (moved interstate for my 2nd and 3rd pregnancy) gave me written information for me to review.

The paed at the hosptal also discussed it with me and DH when he came to do the initial check on Charlie, same again with Lexie.

[paradise lost]

My midwives didn't but they did give me a book with links to find such info out and i did. We were debating the Vit K injection as i felt another injection was cruel if not necessary, but we came to the conclusion that being at home and having a drug-free (gas and air only) mummy was a good enough start that all-at-once Vit K would be a good thing. She was given it while i held her skin to skin, she mewled a little and rooted and i put her back to my breast and she settled immediately.

B

[BellyBelly]

Rhea was discussing vitamin K this weekend at birth classes with my sister, as far as the studies go, apparently this is what has happened to date for those who don't know.

1. First study comes out linking injectable vitamin K to childhood leukemia
2. Second study comes out dismissing that
3. Third and recent study comes out saying that yes there is a risk of childhood leukemia, but it is the same risk as that for which the injection is trying to prevent haemorrhage

For those who have no bleeding disorders in the family, who plan on breastfeeding, and have had a healthy birth, you are best placed to consider not having vitamin K.

But for those who have bleeding disorders in the family, are not breastfeeding, or have had a traumatic birth for the baby where there were perhaps forceps or vacuum or baby is bruised might like to think about having it.

The choice is personal and up to parents to make and we are all trying to do the right thing for our children, so we just need to do the research and decide what we are most comfortable with and like I always say, weigh up if the risks will outweigh the benefits.

In my personal opinion only, I think it's yet another thing which is being done without the healthy aspect being taken into account and provision of balanced, detailed info being handed out before you have your baby. My Ob never discussed it with me and I had no idea what it was made out of either! If there are no risk factors, then why it is routine I don't know - just like third stage injection and antibiotics in labour... you would think it would be better for the mum and bub if they showed signs of these conditions relating to the preventative first. Anyway, just my opinion like I say and my kids did both have vitamin K via injection, but I knew nothing else at the time. There is too much pressure to conform and do the right thing, being a good parent, I think I just decided to conform (and didn't get the chance to research) in order to be seen as doing the right thing.

[sirhokko]

I'm not talking about a general vit K discussion but the fact that it is made with COW BILE.

Lucy if you have a written review including this information I would love to see it. It doesn't even say it on the lit included with the drug. You have to look up the manufacturer or a place of open discussion.

Also Knowing it's cow bile, does that make the decision to inject it into your baby more difficult or is it just one of those things that is accepted just as we know prostin is made with pig semen and nobody seems to care.
Lisa Barrett

Lisa Barrett

[BellyBelly]

I know, just filling people in who may not know what it's all about.

I was at a birth this weekend - mum had a normal birth until...

Midwife: "I'm just giving you an injection..." (moves towards thigh with injection)
Woman: "Huh? What's that for..." (too late)
Midwife: (nothing)
Me: "That's so they can hurry up the birth of the placenta"
Midwife: "It's to prevent bleeding"

Nothing wrong with a bit of extra information.

[BellyBelly]

Thought i better add - didn't have the chance to work with her pre-natally so we didn't discuss it before birth - was a last minute thing.

[Rouge]

Yep I knew, but you know what I eat cheese with animal rennet so I would be hypocritical to say that it bothered me.

Thanks for that bit of info Kelly interesting as always

*hugs*
Cailin

[Inanna]

You are absolutely right Jelvie - many many drugs are derived from less than *yummy* sources! I am currently on Fragmin as you know and that is derived from pig guts! Yummo but would I not take it and risk yet another intrauterine fetal death due to the source. Not on your pink babushka!

Yes, my midwives advised me the derivitive of vit k - it is readily accessible as far as I knew - but because I knew it's source I have never thought any more about it. I personally have not given vit K to any of my children... I also have had no synto given to deliver our placentas.

I agree 200% with Kelly in a routine vaginal birth without intervention it is my opinion from pouring over much literature that vit K is better not given. I had an obstetrician with my fourth child and I stated no vit K and he was fine - thre wasn't even an argument (possibly because he knew me and my nursing background) likewise with the synto - I have not had it with any of my births and this also was a non issue.

I agree that many obs are all for intervention but I have had the very great priviledge of knowing quite a few who are very woman centred... I think it's up to us as women and health care consumers to seek out the factual information and a care provider that "gels" with us for our pregnancy/birth and early parenting journey...

[Lucy]

Lisa, I am sure I have the info somewhere. It was given to me around May '05........it'll be in Charlie's file somewhere. We have since moved house (arggggg!) but I will try and dig it out to see where it was from/if I can link to it etc.....

[Inanna]

As I was packing my dishwasher I remembered something... I actually think now that Konakion has a petrochemical base and the bovine content was removed. I think I remember reading this quite recently.

I will find out and post back when I know...

[visitor1]

Ewwww cow bile.....!!

Pretty gross indeed...but i guess if it helps even the tiniest bit then it dont matter where it comes from!

[CatherineL]

Atleast cow bile is natural i suppose..

[Inanna]

Okay. The Vitamin K - or kenakion that is given now is called phytomenodione - and phyto means plant derived. The pharmacist checked with the manufacturer and there is
definitely nothing of animal origin in there at all!

[Inanna]

I agree with you Shan re: the pork derivitve of prostin... It is synthethic now also I checked it out...

[Rouge]

I was thinking about gelatin too Shannon! We have vegan friends so we get to hear all about all the nice stuff in food LOL!

Thanks for the heads up Deb, and Shannon yeah I thought the same about pig semen too...

*hugs*
Cailin

[Inanna]

Sorry Jelvie - I just got off the phone to my "reliable source"!

[Lucy]

Lisa, I have found the info given to me by my OB.

It is a type-written document on his practices notepaper, which is stapled to a pamphlet outlining "Vitamin K for Newborn Babies, Information for parents" which is issued by the Australian Government (National Health & Medical research Council). The pamphlet itself doesn't contain any specific info regarding cow bile, hence, I think, he has attached his own info.

The pertinent detail of his own typewritten info says:

In both the oral and intramuscular paediatric formulations, the "Vitamin K" formulation contains phytomenadione (Vitamin K) as well as sodium glycocholate (cow bile) and lecithin (both naturally occurring substances). The combination of the sodium glycocholate (cow bile) and the lecithin mean that the phytomenadione (Vitamin K) becomes soluble in a liquid medium.

There are no references on his type-written document, so I am unsure as to where he would have sourced this info, aside from his own learning/awareness/the drug manufacturer. It seems to me that it is written in fairly easy "lay-mans" terms.

(It made sense to me when I read it at any rate. I understood it was cows bile, and I understood the bile component was deemed necessary, as I already knew Vit K was a fat soluble vitamin substance. So I understood that if I chose to have the Vit K administered for my babies, it would have to be in this "mixture".)