I think it's important to mention too that we shouldn't get into a state of not being able to trust Obs, while many of them make me feel cross too (I have been accused by a BB member of Ob bashing even, when it wasn't my intent at all!), we also need to be able to rely on them in time of real need.

I am not saying you were saying this Theresa, I agree with all you've said - it's just something I wanted to point out. We need to be wary of what is going on, know we can get a second opinion or say no, and realise that we are the magic answer in all of this.

We can become more educated, informed etc which no-one else can do for us - the Obs wont change in a hurry - but with our own education, we can make the choices and decisions which are going to be better for US Ideally women will get their faith and confidence back into their own bodies that they feel comfortable enough to see a midwife during pregnancy for their care, given its a healthy, normal pregnancy, because they completely kick butt. They spend lots of time with you, they come to your home, do all the checks the Obs do at visits, let the siblings help and have that awesome womanly touch. Brings back what we used to have, trusted 'wise women' who you share a life journey with - you get attached to your midwives and fall in love with them!

Long way to go yet - midwifery led care in NZ has had it's problems and caesars are back to 30% - further proof that we can't rely on any person but ourselves to make birth better - we can have great carers, but it takes more... us learning! And how do we find out that we need more education than what we have? We just don't until we've been through birth, but it's through word of mouth, forums like this we can make the biggest difference.