Article on ABC

[Lolpigs]

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4237794.html

Anyone seen this? I've seen it a few times mentioned about an ABA councilor making these claims. Has sparked lots of media attention

[Cassius2]

I just love the comments...the majority of which have just gone and done exactly what the article was asking readers to look beyond...personal experiences.

[Arcadia]

Great article, but the comments....blergh!

Basically anyone who has trouble breastfeeding and is encouraged to continue or persevere makes out they are bullied by 'nipple nazis' and have guilt because of switching to formula.

I don't get it. If breastfeeding was only for those who found it easy even less of us would be breastfeeding!

Breastfeeding is normal, but it's a skill and one with less mystery surrounding it if we all saw more mothers breastfeeding and had more babies within our immediate circle.

Some people don't prioritize breastfeeding. So what. They shouldn't care then when they switch to formula, but if you do prioritize breastfeeding, why not try and persevere?

I just love it when dads start using berating terms to describe breastfeeding advocates...yeah because men know so much about breastfeeding and the emotional issues associated with success or failure.

[RhiChiChi]

Thanks for posting this article.
I think we as a society need to be more supportive and sympathetic to people experiencing bf difficulties and offer sound support and advice on how to overcome these obstacles. I think to tell a mother who is beside herself, sleep deprived etc... when her child is hungry to persevere without reason why is unhelpful and contributes to further issues IMO.

I do agree with you Arcadia in relation to if you choose to bf or ff then be confident in your decision, however many people aren't - as I wasn't and I did consider relactating not long after switching my DD to formula but I lacked confidence and support to do so. I wasn't of sound mind to even consider picking up the phone and call the ABA to talk through what to do. The LC I was referred to gave my DH a whole heap of pamphlets to read about relactating - didn't bother to come in and chat with me & talk through what to do or even show me correct attatchment etc... I think the government needs to act now and offer more funding in relation to bf education and support (whether that be in schools, hospitals, local government). Most people know that breastfeeding is 'normal and best' but it seems to be the initial issues faced when commencing bf. Most people I know have had some sort of issue but have been able to overcome it with the right support and advice. The ones that choose ff after bf IMO are the ones that have been let down.

[Lolpigs]

Yeah RhiChiCHi, I pretty much feel the same way.

I had low supply and was told by both ABA and the LC and Midwives to just keep trying, or I wasn't feeding enough. In the end an emotional wreck. Nothing I did improved my supply so in the end had to go to formula, but was not support at all in that regard from any of these places.

I think another issue is, the assumption that all boobs are created equal. They are like any other organ somtimes they are just plain dodgy, I encounted that opinion of "oh well everyone else can do it you must be doing something wrong". Was very heartbreaking. When I did everything I was asked, and still no more milk, I was kind of shrugged at becuase noone knew what to do.

It is true women need support with BF, there also needs to be more support for those that cant. I felt pretty abandonded when I couldnt feed, like I hadnt tried hard enough when I was at the point of exhaustion and I think Arcadia this is where people are coming from with the remarks especially the men. My husband was beside himself watching me go through with this and probably would say the same things.

[Astrid]

I think the main problem is that we don't want to take ownership of using formula. I have seen it time and time again, and was in that place myself so also talking from experience, that often women seeking help are also seeking the comforting words "is it ok to use formula". We are grown women, we don't need anyone's permission to do so, just like we don't need permission to use cloth or disposable, sleep bubs in a cot or to buy a certain pram.

I will always stand by that it is not the ABA's place to give support for formula use. There are MCHN's that can assist, as mine did when I have to use formula top ups. I honestly believe many people think the ABA is a general baby feeding advise service, but it is not, it is about breastfeeding. I am sure there would be a stream of complaints it any councillor was quick to say, "ah thats ok, just grab a tin of formula". The ABA is really in a no win situation.

I have been to hell and back to breastfeed both my girls, unfortunately with some top ups in the early days. I got there though, I doubt I would have if everyone around me was saying "grab a tin, its ok". (Well my MIL was, but I was using her anti BF stance as my driving force to make it work).

[TeniBear]

Well, I've left my couple of comments, one of which linked back to BB and the other talking about how great online support can be


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Lolpigs]

True, but when they are supposed to be all about breast feeding seems odd to someone who has never done it before that they shrug and cant assit you any further. The ABA councillor in question was claiming BF was an aids prevnantive amonst other things, which is just silly without scientific proof. I am happy to own my formula use. It was that or my baby die becuase I couldnt feed her, what I was perplexed at was the guilt inflicted on you if you couldnt BF like you werent trying hard enough.

Don't advercate Formula use thats fine. But dont leave obviously desperate people with guilt or worse scilence which is what I got imo. Noone should be pretending 100% of all women can successfully breastfeed just with perserverence which is what appears to be going on at the moment from my experience.

[Frangipani Lou]

It's worth reading ABA's media statement on their website. There response seems appropriate.

[Astrid]

Lolpigs if you are happy to own your formula use, then how could anyone inflict guilt on you?

Maybe I come from a different angle, I was desperate to BF DD1, yes I received support (it was mixed, this is from midwives, MCHN's etc) but I mainly received a lot of encouragement to formula feed, if anything I was being guilted as I wanted to breastfeed.

It is such a no win scenario for all involved. We all feel some guilt for whatever path we choose or have chosen for us. I can look back on it now and know a lot of the guilt was coming from myself. Most people are doing what they think is helpful at the time, either by saying persevere or grab that tin. Anyone for who feeding is not straight forward is going to feel some sort of guilt, confusion, blame etc. Why can we not accept that it is, what it is! Why does someone have to be blamed?? Just because we did not receive the support in the 100% tailored for us in the way that we expect, does not mean that support is all about guilt, is inadequate etc.

First time motherhood can be damn hard for many of us. It is so new, something we have never experienced before. So why do we expect it to all be smooth? Expect all advice to be spot on, just what we need? It is hard, sometimes it sucks. So is it the midwives, LC's, ABA councillor, MCHN's etc fault if something is not straight forward for us?. Maybe we should be thankful that there is some support out there? It may not be perfect to each individual situation, but it is better than none.

[Cassius2]

but I mainly received a lot of encouragement to formula feed, if anything I was being guilted as I wanted to breastfeed.

This is what I had to deal with when DD1 was born. Was told that she was too little to BF fully and *needed* formula top ups that i had to sign off on; there was no room for informed consent and I was bullied into that move. it was heartbreaking to watch her get the formula from a cup, from a stranger while i watched (against their wishes) while i had milk pouring down my shirt. A mistake i will not allow myself to make again.

My thinking is that the whole baby industry (not babies or families, but industry) is geared towards us, as mothers, fathers and families to feel guilt, shame, inadequacy. I have no idea why this is? What is wrong with our society that this has become the norm?

I have a perfect example of this: was at a cafe with a bestie and our two young babies. I was BF and had some dude and his wife give me the filthy look that implied that i should desist from that heinous activity (), to the point that they asked to be moved lol! and then about 20 minutes later had a random old lady come up and pat me on the shoulder as she walked past and tell me "it is so refreshing to see a mother BF her baby, so many girls just give up too easily" (). little did she know that my bestie beside me had been through hell and back to try to BF her 6 week old baby and had just made the switch to formula (and in her case it made a huge difference to both her and her baby's happiness and relationship). In both cases I felt nothing more than mortification and it really got me thinking about what a messed up place we live in that instead of showing gentle encouraging and informed support, we are so quick to judge and harass.

I do agree with Robin Barker that we do need to keep the manufacturers of formula honest. that is a concept that i doubt, anyone would reject. It sucks bum that the Big Companies in the industry have taken leave to make claims that fall outside of fair trading and have had a history of changing the base of the products that have negatively impacted on babies. One thing that cannot be denied is that if formula is what is feeding a baby, then we need to make enough noise to keep ensuring that the product is the best and safest it can be. I love consumer advocacy and on this topic it needs to be of paramount importance!

[Arcadia]

Astrid, I gotta spread the love, but I loved your posts.

Cassius, yes I also like the idea of the aba keeping the formula companies honest.

I just reread my post and it comes across pretty harsh, so I'm sorry if people took offense. I was so worked up by one of the dads commenting on nipple nazis' and implying that his wife was bullied into continuing breastfeeding. I just dont buy it. You either want to look for breastfeeding support to continue breastfeeding, or you look elsewhere for help on comp feeding formula etc, why should the aba give permission to some mums to use formula and others support them to continue? How is an aba councillor to know how close a woman is to crisis or pnd? If you approach them for breastfeeding help, then I assume that's all they can really offer. It's your choice to take their advice and apply it, or decide it's too much and look at other options.

I just hate the way a support group for women gets abused and attacked, especially when it's outraged men (clearly my own feminist issue there!)

[Astrid]

I think there is a major issue around the term "Support". What does this mean to the recipient? What does this mean to the giver?

To me support is giving me what I need at that point in time. It is not about making me feel good. It is not about telling me what I want to hear right now. It is not withholding the truth of a situation in order not to hurt my feelings. I think we get upset because we are not being patted on the back with them going "there, there love, everything you are doing is right". Sometimes we need to be told we are not doing enough, doing it wrong, doing too much, whatever. Sometimes we need someone to throw a verbal glass of water in our face and just tell us how it is.

So what to you want? Real, useful support or just for someone to tell you that you are right?

[Rouge]

Brilliant Astrid.

I am currently holding a little girl, not even a month old who's mother went through hell and back to establish breastfeeding. It hasn't been easy. But do you know what made it harder? The nurses who told her mother to comp feed. When we got home the seduction of formula was still there. Yet mum fed on. Through mutilated nipples, through tears each time bubba latched, to the fear of each feed. Yet she made me promise her that I would help her through all the obstacles. And even though everyone around her wanted her to switch because they were worried, she continued. And now she's doing really well. Bubba is feeding fine, nipples have healed. And there were many nights where even I wasn't sure. That is support. If someone tells you that you can do it. That there is light at the end of the tunnel. That is support. I rounded up as much information and as many women as I could that had been through this to share with her their experience. And how they too found that light through perseverance. That is support. But guess what. I wonder how many people would diss me? Call me a nipple nazi? When all I did is what I was asked to do. If she had said to me from get go "I want to use formula" I would have supported that. But this is what she wanted. And she did it and she's proud. Formula feeding is a choice. Sometimes that choice is easier to make due to lack of support or bad advice. But it is a choice. And sometimes it's medically necessary.

but let me tell you this every single woman who has struggled with the difficulties of breastfeeding has been faced with the seduction of formula. And it's really hard to fight. And that's why the notion that breast is best is often not enough.

[blessedatlast]

This!

I will always stand by that it is not the ABA's place to give support for formula use. There are MCHN's that can assist, as mine did when I have to use formula top ups. I honestly believe many people think the ABA is a general baby feeding advise service, but it is not, it is about breastfeeding. I am sure there would be a stream of complaints it any councillor was quick to say, "ah thats ok, just grab a tin of formula". The ABA is really in a no win situation.

and This!

To me support is giving me what I need at that point in time. It is not about making me feel good. It is not about telling me what I want to hear right now. It is not withholding the truth of a situation in order not to hurt my feelings. I think we get upset because we are not being patted on the back with them going "there, there love, everything you are doing is right". Sometimes we need to be told we are not doing enough, doing it wrong, doing too much, whatever. Sometimes we need someone to throw a verbal glass of water in our face and just tell us how it is.

I am struggling terribly to breastfeed and express and I'm sick of people saying "Just put him on formula" or "It's ok if you have to stop" For me it's NOT ok. I need support to keep going and it's hard to find that.. The ABA have been a fantastic support to me.. I do understand that people think they are being supportive when they give me permission to FF, but they aren't. What I hear is "I can see your struggling, just admit defeat and give up" I want to hear "I can see your struggling, It's hard, but your premature baby needs your milk, you're doing it, keep going"

ETA: Awesome post Rouge! The seduction of formula.. Oh yes I know that feeling! lol

[Lolpigs]

I am happy with my choice now as I have made peace with it, I was not when I had to make it. My LC said to me, oh you have very Low supply some women solider on and eventually get there.. and some woment just give up (said with a very condesending tone implying what to a woman who wants to do the best by her baby?). I wanted nothing more than to BF my child but after an 8 week battle we werent getting anywhere at all. I would have liked actual practical support. Someone who knew how to BF with large breasts not ppl telling me positions for small breasted women (this happened all through the paid for BF classes I attended as well not just in hospital). Being told you need to take owner ship, here watch this video 5 times you will get it and then being left to it. Not having it implied that if I was unable to BF becuase I didnt perserve indefinatley. I suffered through it all too, blisters, cracked nipples, shredded nipples from bad latching fear of the next feed etc etc.

I would have also liked an actual explaination as to why I had such low supply. Not even pumping around the clock would make it better, not meds not nothing. Noone could give me that, I was doing everything they said and nothing. Just shrugs and you must not be trying hard enough.

I dont think some support is better than none is the right attitude if the goal is more women BF for longer periods. Nor do I think that I'm better or worse than anyone else. I did the best I could and my body just didnt make enough milk. Formula wasnt a seduction, I hated giving it but didnt want my baby to suffer for my bodies failing. I can understand why other women would give up at lesser hurdles, but that wasnt me. I guess my POV is different, and thats the POV I'm trying to get accross. Not have a go at the ABA but the questions raised in the article too. Accross the board support is not enough for most women, and I dont think support is making you feel good either. I didnt want to feel good I wanted to know why the hell my boobs were not making enough milk.

I didnt take offense Arcadia, but I guess the reason my posts may seem annoyed (which they arent I'm just a bit blunt by nature) is that it is assumed women in my position just took the easy option with formula. At least that is how it feels when it is discussed or we didnt listen to the LC enough, or didnt do the attachment right. Or something else "we did wrong". I would have been over the moon if i had over supply, or just a position issue, but I had a boob failure problem and noone wanted to help with that or they didnt have the knowledge and couldnt (but noone was honest enough to come out and say this to me) This is why I felt let down and unsupported.

[Rouge]

That makes me angry. Because even though you've had support, I do worry you had wrong advice. Low supply is hard to determine. I know a woman who couldn't pump 5 mls but could tandem feed twins. My children don't gain the way all babies do. The charts are rubbish. I actually don't think you had good support. And I get angry because most women don't.