The Breastfeeding Nazi - For Real?

[MantaRay]

It really is sad that in so many ways mums do not support other mums. For whatever reason mums judge other mums, feel competitive, superior, inferior, whatever, rather than just celebrating the sisterhood that becoming a mum should bring. We are all in the toughest job in the world together, imagine how much stronger we could all be if we banded together and acted as one supportive community and lobby group. Imagine how much more parent friendly we could make society if we all worked together instead of against each other.

Ironically, the one organisation that truly does this well is the ABA that is often accused of just the opposite. The ABA is all about mums supporting mums (more so than being about breastfeeding if you want to get down to it), and about doing what they can to make society more mum and bub friendly. It is the only place where I have felt totally supported without judgement since becoming a mum. And I know many other lovely ladies who feel exactly the same. Fing mums are well accepted at ABA meetings, and are supported by the ABA. It is inclusive. ABA counsellors do not have the medical training to give specific advice about formula brands or quantities but can and do still provide support to any mum or family member that rings, no matter how bub is being fed.

[onthefly]

Lime, you're right, this sort of thing does get my back up and it shouldn't.
I think part of it for me is that despite hearing 'about' these extremists, I'm yet to actually encounter one (though I've encountered plenty of defensiveness about this perception, from mums that didn't breastfeed and from those that do, but don't want to be identified as militants, or whatever term you want to use).
But yes, I take it personally when I shouldn't. And yes, there's a clear difference and clear-minded people with perspective will see that. But no, it's not just semantics, because Nazis exterminated people and even the most militant breastfeeding advocate never did that. And I don't mean that militants need educating, I just meant that we should address that issue, rather than making it about breastfeeding (or whatever).

On a side note, I am sensitive about the use of Nazi. And sometimes I wonder if I give the word more power that way. Because, really, the thought of Nazis marching across Europe ordering people to breastfeed is really quite absurd.

Mantaray - that is precisely why I like the ABA. It's all about mums supporting mums.

[Phteven]

Well there might be something in it...... In Measuring Mamma's Milk: Fascism and the Medicalization of Maternity in Italy Whitaker does demonstrate that the Italian fascist regime promoted a very regimented form of breastfeeding however in How Fascism Ruled Women: Italy, 1922-1945 deGrazia argues that whilst the regime paid lipservice to breastfeeding the regimented and medicinalised nature of breastfeeding as promoted by fascism (weighing after each feed, feeding to schedule etc) undermined breastfeeding and that the regime also boosted the use of artificial baby foods by distributing free samples of Nestogen as well as bottles etc. Additionally the large pharmaceutical companies were allowed to advertise freely during the pre-war ear.

Or are we not discussing breastfeeding and the Nazi era in Europe?

FWIW I think the term is ridiculous, no-one has ever been interred in a concentration camp for using artificial baby milk and I have never done the goose step whilst feeding.

[LimeSlice]

I just think people get their backs up about the use of the word "nazi", and I honestly think we need to get past this.
There are sooo many words in the language that have been taken and used and applied to other topics than the original meanings, the evolution of the language. Nazi is one of these terms.
People aren't saying that there are women who want to march across Europe and gas everyone with a formula tin in their cupboard! Really? No.
The use of the word in this context is used to enforce the strength behind their militance. To demonstrate that they are one minded and militant in their support for a particular ideal. That they go to extremes to get the point across. It isn't literal, it isn't an analogy. It is a metaphor.
Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I have German Jews in my family, some made it out before the war (you might know one, he went on to start one of the most successful movie studios in Hollywood), some didn't, but their life circumstances don't influence how I hear a word used in a totally different context, I do refuse to give it that power. Especially when you actually look at what the word means - it simply means one who belongs to a particular political party, the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei. Nothing more. Many of the German population were Nazi's, and that doesn't mean they knew of, supported, or actively killed Jews or anyone else. It simply means they were socialists who identified with a particular movement - that existed long before Hitler became a part of it, or Himmler, and long before the Jews were an issue. Just some (alternative) perspective. It is just a word.

[fionas]

For me the term Breastfeeding Nazi does not apply to a pro-breastfeeding stance, it applies to a stance that says that breastfeeding is the be all and end all. Partly, it applies to a stance that says bottle-feeding a baby will cause nipple confusion and a bottle must never be given under any circumstances. Which is totally inaccurate and unhelpful. I am extremely pro-breastfeeding, if I wasn't I wouldn't have relactated. But if I hadn't fallen for the line that if a baby has a bottle they will never breastfeed, then I may not have needed to relactate.

FWIW, I found the ABA to be incredibly supportive and very well-balanced when I went through a horrendous time trying to breastfeed DD1. They were also completely supportive of my decision to formula feed and made me feel at peace with that decision telling me, "breasfeeding is not the most important thing about being a mum." If all pro-breastfeeders were as supportive and lovely as my ABA counsellor, the mothering world would be a better place. Sadly, they're not.

[Maruschke]

I just think people get their backs up about the use of the word "nazi", and I honestly think we need to get past this.
There are sooo many words in the language that have been taken and used and applied to other topics than the original meanings, the evolution of the language. Nazi is one of these terms.
People aren't saying that there are women who want to march across Europe and gas everyone with a formula tin in their cupboard! Really? No.
The use of the word in this context is used to enforce the strength behind their militance. To demonstrate that they are one minded and militant in their support for a particular ideal. That they go to extremes to get the point across. It isn't literal, it isn't an analogy. It is a metaphor.
Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I have German Jews in my family, some made it out before the war (you might know one, he went on to start one of the most successful movie studios in Hollywood), some didn't, but their life circumstances don't influence how I hear a word used in a totally different context, I do refuse to give it that power. Especially when you actually look at what the word means - it simply means one who belongs to a particular political party, the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei. Nothing more. Many of the German population were Nazi's, and that doesn't mean they knew of, supported, or actively killed Jews or anyone else. It simply means they were socialists who identified with a particular movement - that existed long before Hitler became a part of it, or Himmler, and long before the Jews were an issue. Just some (alternative) perspective. It is just a word.

You've got some cool rellies.

What I oppose is not that the word Nazi is being applied in another context, because I can see how it could transfer in a meaningful way. I oppose "breastfeeding Nazi" because the offence is no where near what the Jews endured. It isn't an equal comparison, the passion of the militant pro-BF'ers who take it too far, still pales in comparison with the passion (is that the right word?) of Hitler to exterminate the Jews. It just isn't on the same plane.

In the end, those pro-BF'ers who take it too far, are small in numbers, small in impact (FF is not illegal, we still have our free choice) and aren't physically threatening our existence in any way. Using the term Nazi to describe the situation either drastically overstates the oppression cause by the extreme pro-BFers, or drastically understates the oppression suffered by the Jews.

Can someone show me an example of an offence perpetrated by a person, relating to child feeding, that was so extreme it warrants being called Nazi-ish, with all of it's connotations? Either by a pro-BF'er or a pro-FF'er or anyone?

[LimeSlice]

What I oppose is not that the word Nazi is being applied in another context, because I can see how it could transfer in a meaningful way. I oppose "breastfeeding Nazi" because the offence is no where near what the Jews endured. It isn't an equal comparison, the passion of the militant pro-BF'ers who take it too far, still pales in comparison with the passion (is that the right word?) of Hitler to exterminate the Jews. It just isn't on the same plane.

I hear you. In my mind that is why the word is used - because it does illustrate a very clear image in the mind of just how far some people are into it. That they do take it just as seriously, iykwim.
I must admit I encounter the extreme militant mindset of many more people in the anti-circ crowd than the BF crowd. I have seen threads where people suggest in very strong terms the arrest of parents who choose to circumcise, where removal of children and the words "child abuse" are used, where the advocation of violence against those who circumcise is strong. To my mind, the phrase "intact nazi" should be applied more readily than "breastfeeding nazi", I don't often hear/see that violent response to feeding choices.

Again, though, I suppose it comes back to the (mis)use of a single word getting in the way of the issue from either direction. It is hindering the message, so it is ineffective. This doesn't mean that the people it is trying to describe are figments of the social imagination though.

[Maruschke]

I hear you. In my mind that is why the word is used - because it does illustrate a very clear image in the mind of just how far some people are into it. That they do take it just as seriously, iykwim.
I must admit I encounter the extreme militant mindset of many more people in the anti-circ crowd than the BF crowd. I have seen threads where people suggest in very strong terms the arrest of parents who choose to circumcise, where removal of children and the words "child abuse" are used, where the advocation of violence against those who circumcise is strong. To my mind, the phrase "intact nazi" should be applied more readily than "breastfeeding nazi", I don't often hear/see that violent response to feeding choices.

Again, though, I suppose it comes back to the (mis)use of a single word getting in the way of the issue from either direction. It is hindering the message, so it is ineffective. This doesn't mean that the people it is trying to describe are figments of the social imagination though.

I understand (I hope!). When I hear people compare their experience with the holocaust by using the Nazi word, it immediately makes me think they are exaggerating. So then it doesn't help them get me to believe (to the extent they are claiming) how badly persecuted they have been by the BF crowd. It's also quite emotive. All these things make me stop listening.