The Breastfeeding Nazi - For Real?

[Barb Glare]

Hi,

I've been in the breastfeeding "industry" for a long time now. Not as long as some, but when your 19 year old is home from uni, lolling on the couch and procrastinating about whether he should remain alcohol free tonight or call you to come and pick him up at whatever time, then I think you can claim a certain amount of experience. I've been an ABA member for more than 19yrs, a counsellor for 16 and an IBCLC for 14.
And I think I can say with reasonable authority that the Breastfeeding Nazi does not exist. It's an offensive term used to threaten and bully other women, sometimes for a cheap laugh, other times for something much more sinister. As a new mother, trying to sift your way through the pile of misinformation, would you ring a "breastfeeding Nazi' for help? I don't think I would. And yet every day I work with women who have had their breastfeeding experience derailed by incorrect and ignorant advice given out by friends, family and health professionals, while they didn't feel confident to access the information given out by IBCLCs or aBA counsellors possibly because they believed those who called them "Breastfeeding Nazis' If you feel you need to give me a label, Lactation Consultant would do nicely. Or breastfeeding counsellor, or advocate for infant and mother health. Or a lot of things, but not that.
Any day of the week you will encounter women who give their time freely on the breastfeeding helpline. Yes, even Easter sunday. Even Christmas day. Who go the extra mile for other women. Who have studied in their own time. Who are expert int heir field, who continually research and upgrade their skills, and for their effort are called Nazis?
I see women who walk with other women, cheering and supporting and giving really top quality information and advice, and who, if breastfeeding doesn't work out counsel and console, and help women to see a bigger picture. And on the other hand I see mothers who are pressured to give their baby a bottle and told it will make no difference, and are told to pull themselves together when breastfeeding fails and told it doesn't matter, even though their heart tells them something different. Even though they live with the consequences of premature weaning for years after.
A few weeks ago I was returning from a conference in Sydney and on the plane there were a whole bunch of women who had been to a christian women's conference. The woman next to me struck up a conversation with me. I was interested - the topics sounded interesting and she told me how she felt that God might be calling her and that she could work for good in the community. After some time she asked me what I did. I answered that I was a Lactation Consultant (I'd found out she was a nurse) Her whole attitude and demeanour changed. She said" So you are one of those ones that "makes women breastfeed". I answered that I didn't think I was, and in fact in my experience I had never met that sort of person, and that I had met women who were very genuinely committed to helping other women. "Oh no" she assured me "For some of them it's just black and white - breastfeed or nothing - breastfeed at all costs" (and quite a bit more.) I told her what I see in my work. Women who want to breastfeed and are derailed because of poor information and advice and are left feeling disappointed and let down in one of the most important issues of their lives. Hmmm.....
If their were breastfeeding Nazis, I am sure I would have met them in the last 20 years. But to be honest I never have. (Nor have I ever met that woman who goes to school and breastfeeds her 7 year old through the school gate - though I hear about her all the time and I have dared those who "know her" to get her to email me - they never produce the goods ironically. And I also hear frequent reports of the Tasmanian Tiger and the Grampians panther - never seen one in real life either. So, I do feel like I have to come down in favour of Analytical Armadillo. And I think it's really poor form for those who call themselves breastfeeding supporters to perpetuate the myth, because I believe it means that new mothers are more reluctant to access information and support.

[briggsy's girl]

My issue lays in the fact that the term Nazi is used in a derogatory fashion wherever it is used. It's not used to link people to the beliefs of an early twentieth century political party. It is used with the intent of causing offense. The soup nazi on Seinfeld, breast feeding nazi, grammar nazi. It's never said in a way as to have people think if anything positive. It is intended to belittle those being discussed.*

A derogatory comment INTENTIONALLY sets out to offend and therein lays the reason no one should simply lay down and accept it! Yes, it's just a word. Yes, we often take offense at things that are not meant to offend based in our history and our own filters. However, this terminology is INTENDED to be offensive, and it's just not on! It's not JUST a word. The context in which it is used is one that is meant to belittle - it is used to detract from what positive work breastfeeding activists do. And for the doctor in the original blog entry to actively detract from the efforts of those trying to promote better health - nope, no one in the position of power held by a doctor ( be it real or perceived) should use their personal opinion of a small group of people to undo the efforts of organizations like WHO to promote breastfeeding


I'm sure we have all come across somewhere someone that was probably a bit over zealous in their delivery of the information. I know I have. I never thought them a Nazi. Just, as I said, over zealous! *I have to thank those same over zealous people for being the ones that made me realize the attitudes of those around me in real life werent necessarily the best for my dd though. *They debunked the common misconceptions around here for me - instead of weaning at six months like I was advised by family and friends (and the child health nurse) I continue to feed my dd at almost 3years old!! *Yea, the delivery at the time felt somewhat over zealous, but it forced me to think outside the box and actually learn for myself.*

I really dislike the disrespectful way in which terms like nazi are thrown around. It is offensive to many people (I know I've read posts in bb pleading with people not to use the term due to the connotations it has for members who lost family to the Nazis). It detracts from any argument you may actually have about the actions or delivery of information by over zealous lactivists too. I am sure I'm not the only person that reads something about breastfeeding nazi and just zones out because the terminology just makes me think it's going to be a one sided attack.... * Hell it's taken me two days of seeing this thread in new posts for me to decide to read it. Simply because the breastfeeding nazi title made me think it was going to be an attack without basis. And some of it was (that dr is a twit!) but the rest of the post was interesting.

*I'm struggling to grasp the idea that a term such as nazi, which has been used with the INTENT to offend, should just be ignored though...



Eta. Sorry about the random * in my post. No idea where they've come from!

[MantaRay]

It's hard to top what Barb has said! I think there is a perception, and there is a reality and some distance between the two. And sadly, at the end of the day women miss out as a result.

A comment also about having the sports player's footage of bottle feeding his child removed. On the surface that does seem extreme and I can totally understand people hearing that and shaking their heads in disbelief. I would have been one of them once. But since then I have met and spoken to so many mums who's own opportunity to breastfeed has been seriously undermine by the normalisation of formula feeding. When we are bombarded with images of formula, ads for formula and toddler milk, bottles and formula tins in prominent places in shops etc, it is not just mums who are making choices about how to feed that are being impacted. It's sending the message to grandmas and mother in laws and sisters and neighbours and even health professsionals that formula feeding is normal, it's what people do. So when a mum who desperately wants to breastfeeds runs into a difficulty - the first advice she is given is "just give a bottle". Suddenly she is seen as going against the grain for wanting to follow her own biological instincts, and is all too often undermined when she seeks support to do so. If you think this doesn't happen, I can assure you it does, and I suspect many of you know this all too well. And when you are exhausted and in pain and stressed and feeling like a failure - how easy is it to listen everyone telling you that formula is the answer. So yeah, normalising formula feeding is not a good thing and really, instead of giving mums more choices, it can make it more difficult to make the choices she wants to.

[wrena]

There aren't many formula fascists because they are stomped out of the public eye by the BF advocates. Again my example of the BF's uproar over 2 seconds of bottle-feeding on T.V, whilst they run regular 'breast is best' ads featuring breastfeeding.

I can't let this pass because the way that you've represented this situation is very inacurate. The ad that you are refering to is one produced by the New Zealand Health Department to target high smoking rates in the Maori population. The inclusion of bottle feeding in no way enhanced that message (plenty of other ways you can show what a good dad he is) and glorifies FF which is a serious public health issue for the target audience. The NZ LLL were APPROACHED for feedback and suggested that the scene not be included. Given that the whole point of the ad was to show someone who is looked up to as a hero by his community engaging in healthy behaviour, the inclusion of FF is a big deal and not congruent with other messages that NZ Health is trying to convey. The beat up was incredible and yet another example of those promoting breastfeeding being dismissed and ridiculed as "Nazis"

[onthefly]

thank you very much for that perspective wrena!

[Maruschke]

I really don't think it glorified FF at all. It just showed it. There was no narrative that suggested he was a hero for feeding the baby in that manner. If it were a woman on TV FF'ing, maybe I could see the point. But there was no other way for him to feed a baby that young. I think it was too far, REGARDLESS of who was the underlying instigator of getting it removed. Just my opinion, I really don't see the big deal about people seeing others FF'ing, just like I don't think it's a big deal if people see others BF'ing.

[onthefly]

It's a government health promotion ad featuring bottle feeding. I think that's an issue.

[Loveinamist]

I really don't think it glorified FF at all. It just showed it. There was no narrative that suggested he was a hero for feeding the baby in that manner. If it were a woman on TV FF'ing, maybe I could see the point. But there was no other way for him to feed a baby that young. I think it was too far, REGARDLESS of who was the underlying instigator of getting it removed. Just my opinion, I really don't see the big deal about people seeing others FF'ing, just like I don't think it's a big deal if people see others BF'ing.

There is also an argument that the pressure to let dad feed the baby can interfere with establishing breastfeeding. Why not show him changing a nappy, wearing the baby in a sling or something else that shows he is a good well bonded dad?

[Phteven]

No, the narrative doesn't suggest that he's a hero for feeding his baby but it does show a 'hero' who is feeding his baby with a bottle which normalises the use of artificial baby milk. I'm sure there are hundreds of ways they can show him as a loving father without including that particular image.

[Loveinamist]

No, the narrative doesn't suggest that he's a hero for feeding his baby but it does show a 'hero' who is feeding his baby with a bottle which normalises the use of artificial baby milk. I'm sure there are hundreds of ways they can show him as a loving father without including that particular image.

and normalises the idea that dads can only bond by bottlefeeding and somehow that this is helpful to mum, whereas it is more likely to interfere in the breastfeeding dyad.
But it sells bottles and breast pumps

[LimeSlice]

It's a government health promotion ad featuring bottle feeding. I think that's an issue.

Did they tell you what was in the bottle?

[Maruschke]

and normalises the idea that dads can only bond by bottlefeeding and somehow that this is helpful to mum, whereas it is more likely to interfere in the breastfeeding dyad.
But it sells bottles and breast pumps

I really don't think it does. It shows a dad feeding a baby from a bottle. It doesn't say this is the ONLY way to bond. I think far too much is being read into 2 seconds of bottle feeding.

[wysiwyg]

Redrobinridinghood - you have just made the two points I was going to make, but have put far more succinctly.

The father must feed the child to bond is very pervasive in our society, people seemed to think I was doing some sort of disservice to my child and husband by not providing an opportunity for DH to feed.

[Loveinamist]

Redrobinridinghood - you have just made the two points I was going to make, but have put far more succinctly.

The father must feed the child to bond is very pervasive in our society, people seemed to think I was doing some sort of disservice to my child and husband by not providing an opportunity for DH to feed.

I could almost write an essay on how damaging and undermining this belief is to womanhood and motherhood but it is so ingrained I dare not for fear of offending...how many generations will it take for us to reclaim motherhood??? Sorry OT but really passionate about this!!!