Breastfeeding - will a dummy hinder?

[NaeNae]

Hi All,

I am looking for some experiences and advice, please please do not turn this into a dummy V's No dummy argument as I know people can be quite passionate about this.

DD has got silent reflux (Dr has said) and has an awful time after most feeds. She screams and constantly wants to suck for comfort. The problem is I have been offering her boob which makes the problem worse - more milk going into her tummy which makes her screaming worse which makes her want to comfort suck more - a very vicious cycle indeed.

It has been suggested that we get her a dummy to give her something aside from me to suck on as fingers are not the best for either DH or myself to offer her.

I rang the ABA line, I asked if there was a particular brand of dummy that I could get to help DD and was told that if I went with a dummy now chances are that my supply would be low or dried up when I got to 3 months and the hormones were not regulating the supply. Now this has really upset me.

She was really lovely lady and also suggested it was not SR and it was in fact just wind and to try a few other feeding things because one boob is super fast flow and let down. She also told me that DD should be feeding (actual sucking) for at least 30 min - I am lucky to get 15 min of active sucking at most feeds. I am also only feeding one side per feed to make sure each boob is drained as much as DD will drain.

Now I am all concerned and DH and I are at opposite ends of the idea of a dummy. He wants one because it is very very clear to us that DD is comforted by the sucking. I am so unsure now because I have worked really hard getting the BF going and I am scared that if I do get her a dummy I will be out of milk by 3 months and I was really hoping to have a long BF relationship with DD.

We cannot keep having so many unsettled days its far too distressing for me to watch her in obvious pain.

Can anyone offer some of their own experiences? I have been in tears over this and of course everyone has a different opinion and I know that eventually I will need to make a decision but I am scared a wrong decision will hamper everything we have worked so hard on.

My MCHN said that the feeding is already established now and my supply is no longer regulated by hormones but this doesn't seem right either.

soooo confused as to what to do.

Nae x x

[BrightSparkles]

Its hard when you get conflicting advice.
I honestly can't see how a dummy would hurt. If she gains comfort from it and it settles her pain then I say go for it! DD had a dummy from day one, and I had no problems with it interupting feeding and regulation.

HTH x

[Arimeh]

I don't know from a BFing point of view, but DD1 had silent reflux, and had a dummy to help - because it did make her feel better. Also, she had given it up from about 4/5 months, so we didn't need it for a long time (if that is reassuring?!)

I've not hesitated giving DD2 the dummy, it settles her as well as she is a comfort sucker.

[briggsy's girl]

Nae - i won't speak as someone that knows a lot of this - just as someone that was where you were and what we did

i couldn't deal with DD comfort sucking. she too has reflux and would sometimes scream - and the more milk going in, the worse it got as soon as she came off - arching her back, screaming in pain. she would then want to be comforted and would seek out the boob - but i didn't want to be feeding her and causing pain. so we started using a dummy at about 3 weeks - yes, it was a lot earlier than a lot of people recommend, but we had to. DD is now 6.5 months, and i've never had a supply problem from her using the dummy. she only sucks it long enough to calm down and settle her tummy (i think maybe the saliva she produces helps or something) and when she is calm, she'll spit it out herself. she has it at bed time if she goes down awake - but spits it within minutes of being asleep.

i have never had issues with my supply though - so please don't think that this will cause dramas for you. at this point, you should be on supply and demand - so if DD is drinking what she needs, you will produce that much.

i use avent dummy's - they say on the packaging "orthodontic" - they are shaped a bit and are silicone dummy's. they've worked for us and have not created supply issues

perhaps give it a go. yes, your milk levels may drop a little - it won't be a sign of drying up - it will be from supply and demand. if DD wants milk and not the dummy cos she's hungry, she'll let you know!

oh, and apart from night time feeds, DD is lucky to feed for 10 minutes at a stretch now - usually it's only five minutes or so, and then she's off! she feeds more often than other babies her age, but she gets what she needs. she has been a very efficient feeder for a number of months - i think she has worked out herself that just having enough milk doesnt hurt - being a little piggy and overfilling does....

you're doing really well hun - give it a try - if it doesn't work for you, you can always stop using it - but you won't know if you don't try

hugs
BG

[SamiH]

Poor darling

OK from my personal experiences only

#1 - dummy around 6 weeks cos he wanted to suck but didnt want boob - I was petrified re the b/f - but it was great and he really settled with it
#2 - she had one from 2 weeks - b/f was established as far as I was concerned - no probs
#3 - introduced around 2 weeks again - but he fed like a pro too - AND he has only just had his last feed - nearly 15 months later!!!

So, at the age of your daughter - I would be confident that b/f is established. I must say I am shocked by the advice of the ABA re the milk drying up etc - if you are still demand feeding or every 3 hours roughly - I can think of no reason it would dry up. Please do not worry about this. She may still want to cluster feed late arvo - so maybe this is what the lady meant - so yes i would then give her boob over dummy for the time of day.

Types of dummy - my opinion is a dummy, is a dummy, is a dummy - i have used all the types and brands and dont think it matters - just dont start out at the top end of the market cos you will find it expensive in the long run

Re the length of feeds - my DD and DS2 only ever fed for 15-20 mins tops even as newborns - i was terribly worried with DD cos she chucked heaps too - but with DS2 - he got what he needed cos I had a very fast flow and lots of milk. So again, trust you and your baby first and foremost over advice that stipulates how long you should feed your baby first

I wish you luck - if it were me, I would try a dummy and see how you go hun xx

[Barb Glare]

Hi,

NaeNae, I know you have had some problems with breastfeeding and you've done a fabulous job with your little one.
Tell me, how many feeds does your baby have in 24hrs now? What have her weightgains been like lately?
Babies are hardwired to suck. When they suck they get food (obviously) but they also get an amazing mix of hormones which helps them relax, helps them sleep and helps them to digest their food. For all these reasons, plus their connection with mum, they love sucking. I often here mums saying "she uses me as a dummy' when it fact it's clear that they are using the dummy as a substitute for mummy!
Babies generally need to feed 8-12 times in 24hours (this is often not understood, even by health professionals) and sometimes mums find themselves being pressured to feed only 5-6 times in 24hrs. This is generally not enough for babies to thrive on. In the early days, after the birth of your baby, your milk supply id driven by the high levels of prolactin in your body. At this time most mothers relatively over supply for their babies. Over time (there is no defined amount of time - it varies) prolactin levels return to a fairly normal level - but they peak every time you breastfeed your baby. So your milk supply is controlled by your baby's sucking, and emptying the breast. The more you feed - the more milk you make - it's almost always as simple as that.
So, this is a longwinded way around your questions (but I think it helps to understand the theory behind the information you are given.) A dummy can be a very useful and helpful tool, used after a feed to help comfort a baby. Often, as you identify, they don't really want another tummy of milk, but a little extra sucking helps them to relax and go to sleep. But, a dummy shouldn't be used to "hold off a feed" - to "space feeds out" for an arbitary amount of time - say, 3-4 hours. There will be times of the day - usually late afternoon til early evening - where babies seem *super* unsettled - nothing we do as mothers seems to make it right for them. Very hard on a mother's nerves. Babies tend to want a cluster of feeds during that time, and it's good to go with it. But, if they will accept a dummy after they've had a good feed it can give the mum a bit of respite.
The first 6 weeks with a new baby are hell, really (when you look back) The learning curve is so steep it makes Everest look like a Sunday stroll in the gardens.
If you keep in mind the principle of "supply + demand" and understand a little of how milk production works and - and how babies work - you will be fine. Keep asking for information and support when you need it.

[Jas]

Nae, Nae, I COMPLETELY understand your struggle...I had the exact same issue with ds2 so I know your struggle.

Before he was diagnosed with the sr we were considering a dummy anad I really wanted to hold off until 6weeks especially after having a failed bf experience with ds1 we ended up giving him the dummy at around 3 or 4weeks i think and he is still feeding like a champion almost 8month later.

Dummies can be brilliant for sr babies! and just to let you know ds was on zantac for a bit and then went onto losec at around 8weeks for a month after the month dose was up we tried him without the losec and he was fine so don't worry the sr doesn't last forever! I was told average is between 4-9 moths it will correct itself.

I think Barb has given some wonderful advice about using the dummy when you know dd is full and not to prolong feeds etc. Also I know you are worried because dummies are said to not be the best for bf but the other option is feed her and as u said that usually makes it worse or not let her suck. I wish you all the best making your decision, you are obviously doing a wonderful job xo

[YoYo]

I'll just use my experience with DS and you can form your own opinion

I used a dummy with DS from about 4 or 5 weeks old I think. (was a while ago!) It did not in any way affect my milk supply. I fed DS till he was 15.5 months old! I only used to use his Dummy for sleep times. He (as far as I can tell) knew the difference between the sweet sweet boobie and the plastic of the avent dummy (I was dumb and went for the 'cute' brand...and one of the most expensive). Like Barb said, I never used the dummy to space out feeds. I knew what he needed when he needed it, and if it was a feed, then I'd give it to him. Of course this kept my milk supply where it needed to be....just perfect for him.

As far as lenths of feeds, I had this all written down (in my desperation to help work DS rhythm out) and he used to feed for 10 - 15 mins each boob. When he was REALLY REALLY tiny, he only used to have one boob, but then I chucked both of them in and that worked well. I considered him to be a really efficient feeder, he knew what he was doing, and my boobs knew too!!!

If you think the dummy will help, then try it. That's what it's all about as far as i'm concerned. Working it out, and once you find out what works, keep going

Good luck

[thepixie]

Another one here who used a dummy and had no supply problems. I was reluctant at first too, but it was the only way she could suck without having more milk than she could physically cope with. Like Mel's DD she seemed to go off it at 4.5 months about.... then she took it back up just before she turned 1. Still going strong with BFing so for us it was a useful tool.
ETA just my personal opinion (possibly someone will want to shoot me down here) but I think for some mums who have abundant supply a dummy can be very useful in the early weeks because otherwise bubs drinks more than her body can process.

[~Hestia~]

Hi NaeNae - firstly You're doing a fantastic job with your little girl & you obviously want to do the best thing for her. It's so hard deciding what the *right* thing to do is when you're on the steepest learning curve of your life & sleep deprieved at the same time!!

In my limited experience, I don't think you'll have any problems using a dummy. We used a dummy (NUK brand) from I think 3 days old. Never had any problem with supply whatsoever & DS never had nipple confusion. My DS only fed for 20mins right from the start - that was both sides. Now at 4 months old he only takes 5 minutes. He fed every 2 hours until about 6 weeks when he dropped to 3 hourly all on his own. So for us using a dummy didn't make any difference in regards to breast feeding.

FWIW my DS used to have awful wind pain after feeding. I had a very fast flow & sooo much milk. What worked for us was after a feed putting him over our shoulder (say our left) so that he was resting on his tummy, hold him with our left arm & pat his bum firmly with our right hand if that makes sense. The upward patting seemed to get the wind out of him & he was much more settled. So if it is wind & not SR maybe that'll work for your DD?

[Nelle]

It never affected my supply. I found that if I offered the dummy, and bub was actually hungry, he'd spit it straight back out in quite an unimpressed manner (so now I understand the phrase 'spit the dummy' ).

[~Trish~]

A dummy has never affected my supply with any of my three of my bubs. I used a dummy from only a few days old with each of my boys without any affect. DD has started using one within the last 3 or 4 weeks (she refused to take one before that) and again, no problems.

Big hugs Nae . Please let me know if you want my paediatric chiro's number, they have great success with reflux babies .

[MantaRay]

Oh hun, an unsettled baby is very hard work You must be exhausted

I totally agree with Barb on this - a dummy can be a godsend for babies like this. It needn't interfere with bfing.

I also wanted to add that I disagree with the sucking for at least 30 minutes. Many babies can empty a breast in less time than that. 15 mins sound perfectly reasonable to me. My first DS only ever fed for 5 minutes at a time even as a newborn (and he was putting on 400g a week at first, so he must have been getting enough in that time).

The thing with information and advice is it is really useful if you pick the bits out that you need. Hopefully you can use all the conflicting things you've been told to find a path that works.

And in short - using a dummy should be fine.

[Gigi]

hi Nae Nae,

i bf my nb, by one month old she was using the dummy on ocassion (but not the first thing i reached for).

My supply was unaffected. When she was thirsty, she let me know and we bf.

at one year old, she didn't want the dummy anymore.

i used the dummy as one option, not the only option. (i think the warnings AGAINST dummies, are about people who use them as a crutch. Overuse of many things is not great. In moderation, i think dummies are fine and useful, to babies who like them).

if i had my time over, i would look at safer dummies (e.g BPA free ones) and organic teething toys and amber teething necklaces. teeth didn't come til much later, but at THREE MONTHS, bilby's gums were so enflamed we were using the teething gel alot.

there are a few different shaped teats for dummies. i would get a variety adn see which your bub prefers.

i used the CHOICE website to work out which dummy brands were NOT recommended (safety wise). Their lists are not exhaustive, usually just a few easily bought brands - but it's somewhere to start.

[NaeNae]

Thank you everyone for your input.

Barb - Shae feeds 6-10 times in 24hrs and this varies in length that she is on for so both long feeds and snacks/top ups. I do everything lead by her so some days she feeds more than others. Her last gain taken by our MCHN was 745g in 2 weeks so I know there is no issue with how much she is getting when it comes to weight plus she does have 6-10 heavy wet nappies in 24 (mcn).

If we can hold off a dummy for just a bit longer I would prefer that because i am so scared i will stuff everything up and have to FF gee this is really hard this mother thing, its so hard to know what to do.

Nae x x x

[briggsy's girl]

Nae - the mothering game is damn hard hun! everything comes down to you working it out for yourself cos everyone you know has done thing differently and what works for one won't work for another. or the way one person does things doesn't work for the next person - so damn hard!

anyway, just wanted to throw a few more hugs your way - and to let you know that the best way for you to do things is YOUR way. if you're not comfortable introducing a dummy, don't do it. if you want to try it, try it. ultimately you need to be comfy with what you're doing!

[thepixie]

i am so scared i will stuff everything up and have to FF

Nae I really don't think you are in any danger of stuffing anything up. You have been exclusively BFing for five weeks, you're going really well and Shae is posting whopping gains so is obviously thriving on your milk. Sounds like you are well established and have a plentiful supply. Your MCHN has met you both so is in a good position to recommend something that she thinks is right for YOU... but at the end of the day the choice is yours. Mummy knows best - and you're the mummy

[MantaRay]

I do everything lead by her

that says it all to me hun. You are doing a fantastic job. Your instincts are obviously working well for you so don't be afraid to follow them