Overtiredness and breast refusal

[leebee81]

I need some reassurance here. Henry is a pretty good feeder - no problems really. He's also a chubby baby, clearly isn't starving. But I have this issue where if I mistime his evenings and don't get him sorted and fed for bed before he gets to his witching hour, its all over. He'll just cry and cry and refuse to feed. He'll cry around my boob, he'll let milk just run out rather than swallow because he's too busy crying. Eventually he'll calm down enough to take a dummy and fall asleep, but then I worry that he's gone to bed with an empty tummy and end up waking him before I go to bed so he can feed properly.

Its hard to time it all right when he's still quite random in his days - he's in his own little pattern of an hour awake, then a nap, but nap lengths vary so some days he hits the wall as early as 5pm, but it can be anywhere between 5 and 8pm. 8pm is Oliver's bedtime so we have dinner prep, his shower and bedtime in there as well.

I've never been a big fan of the dreamfeed (seemed like it was messing with natural recognition of hunger and sleep rhythms ) and I guess that's what I'm doing by waking him. Mind you I was never really a fan of the dummy either but he's not one to comfort feed and flat out refuses to feed to sleep, so I've had to rework my parenting approaches with Henry quite a bit! I'm wanting to ditch the dummy soonish but since he won't feed for comfort I'm reluctant to deprive him of something which does.

Anyone else's bub refuse the breast when overtired and/or upset? I guess I'm looking for what approaches other mums have taken when the boob isn't working.

[luna moth]

I'm finding this already with our 4 week old. When she's tired, wrapping her really helps - but maybe Henry is not into wrapping any more? I don't know, that's all I got.

[onthefly]

yep, dd will not feed when tired. So different to DS! She also doesn't really like to be cuddled to sleep, so I find I have to put her down, wrap her and let her have a little nap, then she'll wake up ready to feed. then she's ready for a proper sleep.
I'm having to learn new things after always just relying on the boob with DS.

[leebee81]

Ok so its not just me then. I feel like I'm reinventing the parenting wheel because boob worked for everything with Oliver.

Henry is wrapped, when he's upset its one of the few things which helps - I wrap him very tightly in 2m of stretch jersey (its not even hemmed, bad mummy!) and hold him close and pat his bum, eventually he calms down and will accept the dummy then but not the boob. He will cuddle until drowsy but seems to prefer to be put down at that point. Oliver had to feed to the point of complete unconsciousness before I could put him down.

[Cassius2]

yep. i just put her down for a nap and to try and/or calm down the overstimulation and then try again. i read a brochure recently from the ABA that talked just about this and that's also what they recommend. wait for baby to calm down and then try again. cranky baby and stressed mama = no fun at boob time lol! like you said, he wont starve and eventually will be able to power on through his tiredness as he gets that little bit bigger

[Snacks]

Phoebe used to get worked up and overtired at night also. I found that if I did what you do - the wrapping, holding close and rocking/patting then she would eventually take the boob while I was standing up and rocking her. We would dance around like this for a little while until she had settled enough for me to sit down to feed her.
However this was because she really would only feed to sleep. Perhaps your little guy really doesn't need that extra feed? Are you concerned he will wake more often in the night to feed if he doesn't have it? You may find he settles ok with the dummy and then when he does wake he has a really great feed and becomes overall more settled overnight?
I dunno, it is such a guessing game. It sounds kind of cool to me that he is happy to self settle though

[~clover~]

Yep, as soon as I try laying her back she'll arch & scream & refuse. If its gotten to that point I have to pat/rock/walk her.
I've also had times like this where the second I've wrapped her she crashes, she just needed that extra comfort.

[leebee81]

It sounds kind of cool to me that he is happy to self settle though

Oh don't get me wrong, this is extremely novel! I used to think everyone who harped on about self settling was cracked in the head but now I realise they must just have babies like Henry rather than babies like Oliver. Oliver wasn't going to settle on his own until he was damn well ready, and not a minute before. Complete opposites they are.

I guess I am worried he'll wake up extra overnight. I don't get much opportunity to rest in the day as Oliver doesn't nap so I'd prefer to keep overnights to a minimum if I can... not that you can control these things anyway.

[onthefly]

me too leebee. It's a bit of a shock to the system to get the 'other model' hey?

[Snacks]

Gee, I wish I had've gotten one of those
Nah, all in all Phoebe wasn't a tough one. Yes, she fed to sleep but didn't wake often overnight. I so KWYM about wanting that extra sleep though as days with babies and toddlers can be loooooooong. I wonder though whether, and it sounds like he is a lovely chunky boy, he actually needs that extra feed?
If you think he definitely does, would it be feasible to wear him from before he hits the wall (especially on the shorter nap days) in the hope that he might have a bit of a chill-out/rest so he's not beside himself at feed time?
Hope you work something out soon... I am sure you will.