Breast Refusal

**Willow** · February 19th, 2008, 06:01 AM

Well the title pretty much says it all. DS (nearly 4 months) has over the last few days started refusing feeds.

It's escalated to the point that he didn't feed overnight at all after midnight. This is unheard of for him, he usually feeds 3-4 hourly overnight, he had one feed at midnight and that's it. He woke throughout the night 3-4 hourly but when I tried to feed him he would scream and refuse to latch on.

At times he will latch on and then scream and come off again without sucking.

I've tried sitting him up more, laying down in bed with him, tried feeding in every room in the house, every position I could think of and it's not making any difference.

I changed his nappy this morning and it was wet, but I did change one yesterday that he'd had on for a few hours (we had to take him to the hospital for some scans on his head, so didn't get a chance to change him till we got home) and it was bone dry.

He doesn't seem to be unwell, seems happy apart from when I try to feed him. I have no idea what's happened, our feeding was going so well

How long can this go on before I need to be really concerned?? Do I express and give him a bottle or will that only make things worse?

**ETA: Just managed to get him to take one side, but he wouldn't take the other when I offered it. I am quite full after not feeding for so long, so he probably got quite a bit but I'm expecting this will continue today as it has over the last few days.

**Spring Angel** · February 19th, 2008, 06:22 AM

Willow my DS did the same thing. I had a thread about it, I think it was called 'fussy all of a sudden, help'. He would put on such a fuss, I would persist and persist and end up totally frustrated.

I think it was Barb who said that they are big boys now and know where the milk comes from so when he wants it, I'm sure he will let you know.

I know it is a horrible feeling, I felt crushed, but the good news was it passed and before long he was back to being a guts.

HTH
Spring

**Willow** · February 19th, 2008, 06:35 AM

Thanks Spring. I just feel so defeated at the moment, like I can't do anything right for him. If it's not sleeping, it's feeding YWIM?

I'll take him to see our CHN today, will see what she says. I'll have a look for your thread too.

**Olive** · February 19th, 2008, 06:39 AM

willow he doenst have sores in his mouth or possible a sore throat???? sophie had a red throat once and refused the breadt, have you tried feeding in the bath?

**Willow** · February 19th, 2008, 06:47 AM

Not that I've noticed AJP, he seems well.

The only other thing out of character is that it took us about 2 hours to get him to sleep last night. He had 2x 1.5 hour sleeps and one 2 hour sleep yesterday so I don't think it was because he was overtired. In the end I gave him a half dose of panadol and he slept for 4.5 hours, woke and had a feed but hasn't fed since.

DH and I have started wondering if he is teething because he is showing signs of it, drooling, chewing on his hands, our fingers/anything he can get in his mouth! But apart from that nothing out of the ordinary.

I can't really feed him in the bath because I have my DD to look after too, she's 3 and I doubt it would help DS having her splashing around in there with us! I could try that tonight when DH is home I guess.

**Willow** · February 19th, 2008, 10:40 AM

Just had him weighed and he's only gained 50g in a week. That's a big drop for him, he has been gaining 300-200g a week since birth.

CHN said to keep an eye on him (OK....like I wouldn't?) and if it continues to take him to the drs. So not much help really...

**Janie** · February 19th, 2008, 11:01 AM

Willow, if it does continue, forget the Dr, see a LC. He probably is at an age where his weight gains won't be as big, but that is a big drop, so you know what to do..........(I won't repeat your CHN!)

We went through this too, it's heartbreaking. I think your DS is at an age where it's not all that uncommon. If he really is missing feeds, make sure you express. I'm not sure at what point you need to supplement him with EBM. Hopefully Barb, or even Christy will see this and pop in to help you with that one.

I found that lying down to feed would often work when it seemed he was never going to take the breast again. Also, hand expressing until I got a let down so it was 'easier' for him to feed.

I know it's hard, but try to not to get stressed about it. He will pick up on that, and will be less likely to feed well. Do whatever it takes to be calm at feed times. Could it be AF or O?

Ummm, I think that's all I've got ATM. Hang in there hun, it will get better. I never thought I'd be saying this (we had refusal for weeks and weeks) but I can't keep my DS off the boob these days.

**MantaRay** · February 19th, 2008, 11:15 AM

Willow, big, big hugs to you hun. I know how demoralising it is - I have BTDT more than once. And it is a horrible feeling. The good news though is that breast refusal is really common and nearly always very short term (no more than 48 hours). There are so many causes - at 4 months I would be guessing that early teething or the impending return of AF would be two of the more likely causes.

If you have any EBM stored, could you try giving some of that in a bottle? I know one time this happened, I think it was related to my first AF. Tom refused my breast for a whole weekend and then finally, just as suddenly as it started, it stopped and he went back to feeding. He would drink EBM but NOT EBM expressed during the weekend he was refusing the breast (and he never drank that EBM later either so I'm convinced it was taste related).

Another thing is that each time you have problems feeding, you get more tense for the next attempt which doesn't help. It is so hard to relax when you're expecting more refusal. But do your best - maybe try feeding lying down or in the bath so you are as relaxed as possible. I am sure this will pass for you. Take care, and please try not to worry.

ETA - BTW, future AFs didn't cause any problems. Also, the ABA has a great booklet on breast refusal. You could always call their helpline if you need some more support.

**Willow** · February 19th, 2008, 11:27 AM

Thanks girls.

Sez - I'm going back for a follow up visit at Tresillian on Friday and the nurse we've been seeing there is an IBCLC so if it's still happening by then, she can hopefully help.

Melanie - I have some EBM in the freezer but at this stage really don't want to give him a bottle. DH tried to give him one on the weekend and he screamed the house down. He rang me to come home but eventually got him settled and he drank the whole bottle in the end. The other reason is that I had issues with breast refusal with DD when she was only about 4 weeks old and I found the more often I gave her a bottle the more the refusal escalated.

I don't know about AF or ovulation - DS is an IVF bub and I had all sorts of issues with my cycles before he was conceived so I'd be surprised if either of these were the case. Still possible I guess. I got AF back at 6 months when BFing DD so I expected a few more months yet.

He has had two feeds today but both times has only taken one side - better than nothing I guess!

The funny thing with the low weight gain is that he's only really been refusing the breast in the last 24 hours, but has been a bit more fussy than normal since last week. Still, I wouldn't have expected it to affect his weight gain like that.

God this is the worst feeling...

**Hoody** · February 19th, 2008, 11:33 AM

Hi hun as you know i've BTDT too and even today Molly is refusing the breast! For me she refuses if my let down is taking a while which is normally if DD1 is running around or i am not relaxed enough. I have to physically try to relax. Maybe he has sensed your anxiety over his scan yesterday and he can tell you are stressed. Molly got really bad with the breast when my supply dropped and she obviously had to work hard to get what i had, the more worked up we got the harder it was, she'd suck a couple of times then bob on and off and scream. I found if i gave he 50ml of EBM and then put her on the boob she would then take it ok as the EBM had taken the edge of her hunger iykwim. I have had AF visit twice now and both times she has been fussy at the breast for a couple of days before. Molly's wet nappies dropped heaps when she wasnt getting enough (like only 3 a day) and they were quite yellow/orange thats when i rushed to see my LC. If you think its a supply prob try taking fenugreek. I hope he feeds better for you today i can truly empathise how stressful Bfing can get. I may be wrong but i'm pretty certain at about 4month the weight gain should be about 100g a week but every bub is diff. In another week you will be over this hurdle and wonder why you stressed so much- it will be ok just give it time.

**Janie** · February 19th, 2008, 11:41 AM

Willow, I know how awful you're feeling, it's not fun.

That's great you've got a LC already, make sure to use her if you need to. I agree that the more you give the bottle, the more the problem escalates. I had that too. However, it's great that you have the EBM there if you need it. Doesn't sound like you it ATM though, if he's taking at least one side.

Like I said before, you wouldn't necessarily expect him to keep gaining at the rate he has been, so don't be too stressed about that. Hopefully Barb will drop in and go through that with you in more detail. Obviously watch his nappies etc though.

Keep on keeping on hun, it will be over before you know it.

**Willow** · February 19th, 2008, 02:45 PM

WOOOOT!! Had a proper feed this afternoon after another big sleep. Totally drained one (VERY full side) and even had some of the second!! Sooo relieved. Will see how he goes overnight.

I spoke to the LC, she said if I am still concerned tomorrow to bring him to see her and she'll watch us do a feed etc. I'll get to spend a few hours with her on Friday anyway.

Hopefully it's just one of those things and it is already passing

Have been very full and uncomfortable all day so expressed and got 250mls total!

**Barb Glare** · February 19th, 2008, 08:37 PM

Hi, Willow,

Sorry to be coming in late. You sound very stressed an unhappy. I was glad to see that he had taken a good feed this afternoon. Stay calm. Breast refusal is not uncommon in a baby this age.and is only ever temporary. Stay calm and he will come back to it.
You don't sound very satisfied in your mothering role at the moment. Apart from sleeping and feeding - how do you fee generally? Mothering can be a big adjustment - and it knocks you for 6 when your baby is very demanding - who knew they would be so hard to work out?
Talk soon
Barb

**LimeSlice** · February 19th, 2008, 09:17 PM

Charlotte is doing exactly the same thing....its been going on for a week now, but shes also been vomitting up every feed....so i took her to the Dr cos my CHN was "too busy" for 3 days...grr..ANYWAY! lol Took her to the dr and he sugested that it may just have somethine to do with my let down reflex...
Its REALLY REALLY strong...and she often has trouble dealing with it, so he said some postural feeding.
He also suggested that she may just not need to feed as much and she would be getting more each feed in the same length of time....Does that make sense??
So been doing all this and she seems to be coming out of it - havent had massive vomit for 2 days now!

Hang in there and try to stay calm

Good luck chook!

**Spring Angel** · February 20th, 2008, 07:50 AM

How did you go last night Willow? Hope it was a better night for you.

Springxx

**Willow** · February 20th, 2008, 10:13 AM

Looks like whatever was bothering him is passing - he's been feeding properly pretty much since yesterday afternoon. He did only take one side first feed this morning, but I offered the other side before I put him down for a sleep and he took it. Last feed he took both sides happily. Haven't had any more crying. Praying this is passing!

Barb - it's not that I am not fulfilled, it's just been a very tough few months, we've had sleeping issues, a few medical issues including a stay in hospital and yes, I have been very stressed. It's like we just get over one hurdle and another presents itself. I am not new to motherhood, I have a 3 year old too but I have developed somewhat of an anxiety issue since DS's birth that I am getting treatment for. Other than stressing over every little thing to do with DS, I am feeling fine!