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Thread: DS losing weight & EBM solution offered by clinic nurse

  1. #19

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    Regurgitating or possetting is not something to worry about in itself. Small babies sometimes have a weaker valve at the top of their tummies and it lets a little bit out. It could be from being full, but it could just be from the way he moves, lies, you hold him, etc. My DD possetted until about 7-8 mths. If he is taking the extra feed, by all means keep offering. If he isn't interested, then don't bother. Sometimes a bf is a great way to help him wind down, as well. He probably won't bf if he isn't hungry, but he'll only take what he needs. It might help him settle and he likes it. Who can blame him?!



    Sounds like you've done a great job with him. I actually didn't bother taking my DD as a baby to MHCN check-ups after the first couple of months. We saw the GP for all regular vax and I was happy she was thriving. The weight on the scales is only one indicator of a healthy baby and it's notorious for being used to stress mothers out!

  2. #20

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    Hi,

    Great news re the weight. If he wants the extra feed, why not let him have it? He was on a very low number of feeds previously (6) the extra won't hurt him and is pretty normal at that age

  3. #21

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    I spoke to DH about the extra feeds when he came home & he said the obvious....if he asks then feed him if he doesn't then don't. I read in another Post how sometimes the obvious is not so clear when you are so involved. I spoke to my LC & she agreed.

    DS asked for the extra feed once yesterday but we were in the car and by the time we arrived home he was happy & calm & playful, we played a while & then he had his regular 1.5 hour sleep in the middle of the day.

    He ended up with one extra feed yesterday as he woke early & slept a bit shorter in the morning (plus without the extra feeds he is staying up 2 hours rather than 2.5 hours). Then, he didn't wake up in the night for a feed. I got him out of bed at 5am and fed him and although he fed he didn't feed like he was a hungry baby but it rather seemed like he was feeding because it was there. I just didn't feel like I wanted to leave him to sleep all the way through without a night feed...I would have fed him earlier but I didn't wake up.

    I don't think he was getting a lot out of the additional feeds but I do think now that my milk supply has increased...esp in my right breast. My left breast doesn't seem to fill up as much & I think this has to do with it being blocked for about 4 days a couple of weeks ago.

    In terms of comfort for DS....he loves being on the breast but he is not a baby to fall asleep and stay asleep or relaxed...take him off & he gets very upset. Some days he doesn't detach himself & I have to take him off (I usually let him comfort for a few minutes first). In my earlier feeding days when I couldn't tell if he was feeding or not I would be sat feeding him (or what I thought was feeding) for 1.5 hours. He loves being there - doesn't like leaving.

    The LC also mentioned last night that if DS is reaching development milestons & his head is maintaining constant growth these are the most important factors; it means his brain is receiving sufficient nutrition. She has met DS so knows he is alert & happy and I checked head growth chart & it has maintained a steady growth & he is meeting milestones according to the information I have.

    I now need to trust that we are doing the right thing & not stress about it....need to keep the good milk flowing!!!

    We have another weight check/measurement appt on Monday so will see how things are going then.

  4. #22

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    Often the obvious is only obvious to those with outside perspective
    Don't worry about how your breasts feel - they don't need to fill up. They make more milk when emptied frequently.
    Babies love being at the breast - it's a great place to be and no wonder Somtimes they'll accept a cuddle instead (do you use a sling or something like that?)
    sounds like you're doing just fine

  5. #23

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    I have been feeding DS additional feeds when I think he wants them and this has increased his total feeds to seven a day on average (some days 6.5, other days 8....today about 11).

    We went to the clinic for another weight & measurement and he has only gained 40 grams since last week. That makes him 63cm long, 5.74kg with a head circumference of 41.5cm. The nurse said this is very concerning as he has dropped another percentile for weight so we are very worried.

    We have made an appt with the Paediatrician but it is still more than two weeks away & his offices are closed for the next week (school holidays & he has five children). We have a GP appt tomorrow afternoon to ask more questions about what could be causing the very slow weight gain and I am meeting the LC tomorrow at the hospital so we can talk & she is going to lend me a supply line & show me how to use it so we can get more breastmilk into DS as quickly as possible to try and get his weight increasing.

    I am so upset & can't help thinking there is something more than not enough milk going on. I have to try & stop thinking this way but it is just so upsetting.

  6. #24

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    He's still gaining, so this is good news
    I'm a little confused that you're getting such conflicting feedback - one week a small gain is good, and everything else looks fine, and the next everything's wrong again.

    I'm sorry that you have this stress - I hope you can get some answers soon

  7. #25

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    Hi, Renee,

    It is really concerning when you see "that" look on the nurses face. (Much more concerning that the actually rather good 40g in a week). You don't need a supply line. They are fabulous in many circumstances - but I don't think it's warranted in your case. Go back to what you were doing a couple of weeks ago - feed, play, feed sleep. I think you have a very easy going and undemanding baby who is happy to fall in with your plans. When you fed him ore, he was happy to go along with that (and it did great things for his growth) but he's not one who will demand it. So, make sure you offer it - frequently. If he feeds frequently your breasts will not feel full - but they are doing their job beautifully. At this age (I think he's over 4 mnths now) you would only expect him to gain 70 or so g per week. It's normal to drop percentiles (up or down) in the first months.

  8. #26

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    Hello Barb, Thank you for your advice. I will be discussing with the LC when I meet with her today what I actually need. I was thinking the same as you and it is so true about how my breasts feel when I am constantly feeding...constantly 'empty' and I do question whether he is getting milk & then he throws up & I wonder if that was all he got.

    The nurses are so concerned because DS has crossed another percentile so he is now in the 50th percentile for head & length but the 3rd percentile for weight. He is around 4 1/2 months now and since 8 weeks he has dropped almost 4 percentiles. We don't know if he gained some since 8 weeks & then dropped or has just not gained any as I didn't have him weighed for about six weeks until the weighing that started this concern. The reason I had him weighed then was because DH thought he was a bit thin.

    Since we found out about DS's weight and started increasing the feeds he has been posseting a lot more. He did this as a little baby (approx 1 - 8 weeks) but then it really reduced with just a bit now & again. In the past two weeks he has become a constant possetor again. There are a couple of things can think of that have caused this:

    1. Us noticing it more because keeping milk down is paramount - although the milk on the floor & change in clothes throughout the day discredits this in some ways but it is definitely more stressful for us when he does it now.
    2. My milk supply has increased plus he is getting more from additional feeds & his stomach is just not big enough (yet) to accomodate. When I feed him in the middle of the night he feeds hungrily off first (very full) breast & then does not feed well on second breast. I try to encourage him to feed but he is not interested....I tickle his chin and burp him and put him back on but the response is the same....I guess he is full. I know he is not getting a full feed because milk still squirts out when I hand express and my breast is softer but not 'empty' soft. He doesn't posset after night feeds.
    3. He was getting regular Network Chiropractic treatment & one of the things being addressed was posseting - at his last appt DS was too upset and didn't have a treatment so he hasn't been treated for about one month. I have an appt today which I will go to if it is in DS's uptime but I will give him my appt & see if that helps

    I am finding it hard not to think there is something else going on with him & have to stop these thoughts. All other signs are of a healthy baby - he just needs more or the good stuff!

  9. #27

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    Renee, possetting is just a sign that the valve at the top of his tummy isn't as strong as it will be soon enough. My DD possetted until around 7mths. It's like the valve lets out a bit of the stomach contents with a change in position, when he's full, rolls over, etc. The amount he brings up will always look like more than it actually is. It isn't anything to be concerned about. It's what's known as 'happy chucking'. Just keep a cloth handy to wipe up! Possetting is not an indication of anything serious. It doesn't mean he hasn't kept a feed down and you need to be concerned about how much he's had. He will take what he needs, what comes back up is much, much less than it looks like. If he is still hungry he'll let you know.

    At DS's age weight gain does start to slow down. What are you and your DH like build-wise? Anyone tall and skinny in the family? DS's weight will be correcting somewhat to what he's genetically designed to be, his birth weight is not necessarily the same. What about his health generally? If he's happy, healthy and meeting other milestones then I'd discount the slower weight gain (and a gain is still a gain, btw). If he's grown length wise, then he's obviously still growing. Is he being weighed on the same scales every time?

    Please don't panic, if you weren't worried before that magical number on the scales came up, then it's more than likely you have nothing to worry about. MHCNs can be notorious for unnecessarily making mothers worry about their milk supply by tsk-tsking over the scales. If everything else with him is good, then you're doing a wonderful job. Add in a few extra feeds and go with your instincts.

    PS FWIW, and I know every baby is different, but my DD was always well ahead on the height charts compared to weight. I rarely had her weighed, mostly just at vax with the GP, because I felt she was doing fine (seriously, what did mothers do before we gave them scales and clinics to go to every other week??). Since her birth weight was also low there was never any %age drop, but the difference you talk about was certainly there - over 50% for height, under 10% for weight. Still is, she's a pre-schooler now and weighs less than children who are inches shorter. It's just her build, and she's just the same as her Dad (and a bit like me, I'm quite light). She eats like a horse and is never sick. Trust your instincts.

  10. #28

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    Jennifer, Thank you - your words are reassuring. It is just so hard not to worry about it.

    DH is tall & slim (6'2" & around 75kg), I am short & slimish (5'4" & around 58kg) but have a solid build whereas DH has a slim build. DH did a similar thing around the 7th - 8th month where his weight dropped back. I have no records for me but my Mum says I doubled my weight in first 3 months - I was bottle fed.

  11. #29

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    Renee, just for reference, my son started on the 90th percentile for weight at birth, and was on the 25th by 4 months and around 12th by 12 months. He has remained fairly steady for height and HC, however.
    Sometimes babies just follow their own growth patterns

  12. #30

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    Hi,
    The spewing is really of no consequence - babies spew and thrive. It always looks a lot more than it is. Better just to fill that little tummy up again. I'm another one here whose babies started out big and quickly progressed to the bottom percentiles. They are all fine. And yes, I worried about it - more than I needed I now realise.

  13. #31

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    I just wanted to share my experiences.

    My DS was BF for 2 weeks then put on formula. He was always on the 5th percentile for weight and 50% for height and 3rd for head circumference.

    He is now 2.5 yrs old, 12.5kg (5th percentile) and TALL......clearly healthy, plenty of wees, regular poos, eats well, is happy, sleeps etc.....

    My DD is BF and has been since the start. She is on the 5th for weight, 55th for height and 5th for head circumference. Again, she is clearly healthy, well covered, happy etc and again TALL.....

    I have no problem with this - percentiles are not telling of the child - the child is ITMS?

    I think it's more important how you feel as a mother.....is everything seemingly ok? If you didn't know his percentiles, would you be concerned about something to take him to a Paediatrician??

    Go with your gut instinct honey - charts are there to reference......some kids just don't "fit" where the Dr's want them to. It doesn't mean they aren't doing well xxx

  14. #32

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    I am so upset & confused I don't know what I think. I looked at the growth charts again & if his weight continues to gain at 40grams per week (as per last week) then he will be a long way below any percentile chart by the time he is 5 months & grossly underweight by 6 months. He has a thin body & this would feel okay if he was gaining enough each week to maintain his current stature but he is not.

    I tried the supply line yesterday and he took 120ml but we only fed one side because we had an appt to go to & I didn't have time to finish the feed - had to feed him again when we arrived home & he wasn't very interested (too tired I think). We did it again this morning & I put the supply line on the second breast (the one that doesn't have as much milk); he fed an additional 90ml and seemed very happy....he is normally happy but seemed ever more so.

    We saw the GP yesterday who said he couldn't see any reason but was very concerned about his weight & arranged an emergency appt with a Paediatrician for tomorrow a.m.

    The only things I am certain on (and I may have a battle with DH on these) are that I do NOT want to give DS Formula or start him on solids yet. I feel very strongly that breastmilk is what he needs & if it is the case that he is not getting enough then I will do what I can to increase supply & get more into him. I have read somewhere that acupuncture can help with milk supply - I will contact my acupuncturist to discuss if needed.

    I am going to continue to feed him using the supply line today & then see what happens tomorrow. All I have to do now is try not to worry & enjoy my beautiful DS.

  15. #33

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    I'm just wondering - what happens if you throw away all the "system" and just feed him as often as you possibly can.
    At that age my DS had a pattern like this:
    feed at 7am, sleep until noon, feed at 2pm, 4pm, 6pm, 7pm , 8pm, 9pm, 10pm, 11pm, midnight, sleep until 7.
    I'm not suggesting that you adopt this pattern - just trying to say that they can be so very very different, so maybe trying something wierd would help. Whenever he is awake, offer him a boob!

    Also wondering - if he has a dummy then take it away for a few days and you be his dummy instead. That way any sucking he does is contributing to getting fed!
    Last edited by Kmn; September 30th, 2010 at 07:57 AM.

  16. #34

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    Let us know how you go with the paediatrician. Make sure you reiterate how you are do not want to feed him formula and your preference to bf. TBH if there is anything going on with him, I'm guessing you'd want to know, since he's thrived on your bm up until now, rather than be given a 'quick fix' with formula, which in all likelihood won't make any difference and will definitely affect your bfing relationship.

    GL hun.

  17. #35

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    We had our appt with the Paediatrician this morning. Thankfully he said that our DS is healthy & that there does not appear to be any underlying condition resulting in his failure to gain weight (or Failure to Thrive).

    He did paint a pretty grim picture if we did not get more calories into DS though. He said that it might not be that he is not getting enough but just that he is not keeping enough down...DS made a good display of vomiting when we were there. It seems the more breastmilk I put into him the more he vomits & the more he poos (4 x yesterday, 2 x today so far).

    He was pro-breastfeeding which is good BUT he did recommend starting with solids in addition to breastfeeding. I just want my boy to be well & DH is 100% behind this so we are going to try.

    Me...I feel upset but mostly angry:
    Angry because I cannot adequately nourish my child
    Angry because my GP told me to stop additional feeds
    Angry because I listened to my GP
    Angry because DS is 4.5 months & I am going to shove a spoon into his mouth with something I don't truelly agree with is hopefully going to help him gain some weight
    Angry because I am too scarred about what might happen if I don't try what was recommended.
    Angry because it has been such a hard struggle (6 yrs TTC, 2 x failed IVF, 2 x babies who didn't make it, 41 wks of morning sickness, 29 hours of labour, mastitis, blocked ducts....now this).

    Lucky that we have a healthy DS but it is hard to see the wood for the trees at the moment.

  18. #36

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    That's great to hear that he's been pronounced so healthy! You are obviously doing a good job of nourishing him.

    What sort of solids is he recommending? I ask as the typical things you start on are not very high calorie (ie, less than breastmilk in fact).

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