A brief run down on my BF'ing experience... DD1 was 7 weeks early, too small to latch on, I had to express for a long time, I had a low supply even with a high dose of Motilium, we used shields until about 10 weeks, when she then was losing weight and I got Mastitis, ended up topping her up with F. At 5 1/2 months she finally learnt to BF without causing me pain. Stopped F top ups at 6 1/2 months I weaned off the Motilium starting at 12 months - very slowing and by 15 1/2 months she weaned/no milk left.
This time I was desparate to do it differently and do it my way.
DD2 was born via Csec, I held her for a short while, prior to her being taken to SCN for O2 and in an isolette for a few days to help maintain her temps. I had spoken with her Paed and my MW beforehand and went through what I wanted to achieve, as little intervention as necessary, no NGT, no IV etc.
My MW organised for her to be brought into my room in the isolette with all the monitors and O2 when I had settled back in from recovery, we then attempted our first BF, my MW then had to go, and another came in with a bottle of F and said that if she didn't suck she would have to have the 20ml of F and placed it on top of the isolette (hmmm talk about threatening!). Anyway finally the MW left, I was begging and pleading with her to suck and within minutes of the MW leaving us alone DD2 started to suck, she then sucked beautifully for a good 10 minutes, it was enough for her to avoid the F. I had colustrum (didn't have it with DD1 even though it was a VB), we then went through the same battle with the MW's for the next 24 hours. We got through them with DD2 losing weight (completely normal) only just holding above the 10% line. She fed well for 2 days, putting on 30 and 40 grams, then she lost the weight again, once again threatened with an NGT by the MW's (mine was off for four days ), I refused, her Paed said no, he said they should throw away the scales and look at the baby and mother. We were both fine
I started Motilium on Day 3 so we were a head of the 8 ball in relation to supply, I didn't want to go through what I did with DD1.
My milk came in and we hit problems, she could no longer attach properly, she cause shocking damamge to both nipples, fissues on both, the looked as though they were being ripped off at the base of the nipple (going half way around each nipple), along with being cracked and bleeding.
I would then express for 5 min at the most prior to feeds to try and help her attach, it was too painful and she just couldn't get on, so I asked for a nipple shield. This enabled us to feed, I expressed to relieve the engorgement.
We came home after 7 days and no weight gain, but her Paed was happy as I had done it before and he said we just needed more time.
The whole time we have been demand feeding, she has been demanding mostly about 3 hourly, sometimes 2 1/2hr and others out to 4 or so hours.
She was having both sides, then went to one side a feed. With the shield she has been gulping a lot, almost to the point of choking on the milk. Stopping and coughing and spluttering. Then when my nipples had healed and we were going to the 2 or 3rd attachment I would just offer naked boob and she would feed beautifully and pain free. She gained 290 grams over the week so definetely getting plenty of milk.
When she has had the naked boob she doesn't gulp as much, seems to be more efficient and not do as much comfort sucking, so for the last two feeds I have been trying feeding without the shield from the start of the feed because I know she can do it.
But after these feeds my nipples are stinging, it isn't pain free like it has been, I am basically holding the breast tissue up to her mouth to get in as much as possible, they are coming out looking pretty much the same as going in, so they aren't getting visually damaged. And she is draining them a lot better, because they are feeling much softer after feeds and I had a big lump on the RHS for the last two days, that she wasn't able to shift completely with changing position or with massage. So there are positives there as well.
So should I continue without the shield and just give her a few days to get it right, or go back to using the shield for the first attachment ot two and give her a few more weeks to grow?
I have also noticed *Warning TMI* that when she does feed without the shield that it is causing more loss, so she must be generating better uterine contractions....
Hun, I am not sure what advice to give... maybe someone can suggest something to help your nipples. But I have to tell you.. you are amazing! You are doing such a great job hun, really. What lovely weight gains she has had! I think in general terms they say without sheild can be better - and it is only a short term fix but not sure if this still applies if you are getting sore plus bubs is not technically FT yet?
Just a thought ... could it be a bit of thrush coming along. I had it and didn't realise what it was and I thought DS wasn't attaching properly and it ended up being thrush. I didn't even know till my breast was getting 'stabbing' like pain. Yes, I remember now, I had really sensative, red nipples. Maybe this could be it. I used nilstat on the nipple and DS toungue to get rid of it...it is sticky but very effective. Not sure if it would be different cause your darling is a little younger than when we had it.
I hope you get some answers soon, Keep up the amazing work!
Rach xx
How painful is it hon? I know BFing was a little painful esp at the start of a feed for abou the first four-six weeks. Once she was latched on ok it was better. It might be normal if she is not causing damage and something that will settle down soon. Otherwise can you start with the shields and then remove them during the feed. The spluttering is probably fast let down cause you have such a great supply! You're doing great
You don't have thrush do you? When I had thrush, it was a stinging sensation.
I think if it seems to be better for you and bub (besides the stinging) and you can put up with the pain, I would try to let her suckle the naked breast. Bubs dont generally get as much milk out when you use sheilds. Maybe it's just you bobbies getting used to the sensation of her feeding straight from them and the skin needs to toughen up a little. With DS, my nipples hurt alot when I first started to feed but it died down after a week or so.
Good luck hun, you are doing a great job!
congratulations on getting this far! It sounds painful
I think probably just the nipple. Although
I don't have experience with a nipple shield if you keep helping her she will probably take longer toadjust to just the nipple.
do what you need to do what feels right? Or better?
It's also possible that they might be sure from some previous damage before you started using the shields, and that it will ease as they heal.
If your DD is getting enough milk with the shields, there is no problem with using them, it's just easier not to. And if she's not getting enough milk with them then it's more of a problem, although some feeds with and some without could be an option. How bad is the pain?
Well done on your hard work!
I'd get checked for thrush, just in case. Maybe try what MR says and use the shields sometimes and sometimes not. It may be that once she's a little bigger she'll get the hang of it and you can ditch the shields entirely.
I would use the shields for most feeds until you can have an individual comfy feed, and then try for every secondish feed, and so on. THe last thing you need is to be seriously sore again.
Vic, you're doing such an amazing job. I know how painful things can get when attachment is not right so I'm hearing you on that front.
If it were me (and in some ways our b/f issues right now are very similar) I would continue using the shields for most feeds to avoid ANY damage or soreness. It might only be for a few more weeks, and A will have the hang of things and be a wee bit bigger.
The nurses in SCN helping me at the moment have said that if it takes weeks (or months) with a shield for DD & I to successfully feed without pain, then that is perfectly ok. She's getting the milk, one way or the other, so its really my call as to when I start to wean her off them.
I would also get checked out for thrush too like Marcellus said. That can cause the burning / stinging pain too.
Good luck and well done. You're doing a great job.
Are you putting anything on your nipples to help with the pain? If not, get some lansinoh and this will help you with that pain. I still get a little bit of that sensation, especially this last week where DS has been comfort feeding so much and having twice as many feeds as he would normally.
Good luck, i would give the feeds without a nipple shield a go as often as you feel up too, but there is no need to push it further than you can bear.
Thankyou all for the congrats, BB was a big part of giving me the confidence to speak up and set the rules, rather than be dictated by the system, and we were lucky that we have an Paed who may be old school, but thinks the mothers knows best
Thanks Tippytoes, the gains are great after a slow start so I am thrilled, I had a deep stabbing pain last week, which we thought could have been thrush by the Locum came out and as he couldn't see anything he couldn't confirm Thrush and said if it got worse to go to the hospital..... those deeper pains resoved themselves by Monday so I didn't go to my GP.
LB ~ I haven't consulted a LC yet, I thought I would make this my first port of call
Pixie ~ That is what I didn't know, it may be that I just have to give her more time, it may be "normal pain" I was always told that BF'ing should be painfree if it is done right, and I know that she has the ability to feed without pain She is nearly impossible to detatch, won't even let me wiggle my little finger in to break the seal, and suck is so strong (which is a great thing) her so I can only go no shield once she has finished a side... today I have managed to get her to feed with the shield and then finish without it reasonably sucessfully. I definitely noticed my let down a lot quicker this time and it does feel stronger than I remember with DD1.
Lilias ~ I am wondering if they just need a bit of toughening up, after being "protected" by the shield for a couple of weeks...
M2R ~ thanks hun
Manta ~ Thanks hun, I'm not engorged anymore, the last time I expressed was 3-4 days ago, and that was only because I had the lump and after feeding she hadn't shifted it so I expressed for a bit to try and get it to move. It helped a bit, and then we eventually got the duct clear again. I am actually feeling softer now. I have weaned off the Motilium, with my last tablet being yesterday. I am getting a stinging sensation in them inbetween feeds as well. I haven't tried Baby Led Attachment, I will watch the video and see if I can get it happening It is definitely easier to not used them, especially for those late night feeds and out in public, but if it is what I need to do for a while yet then I can keep going. How bad is the pain, incomparrison to recovering for the CS when the meds were a bit late, or when she caused the fissues not too bad , but I wouldn't consider it normal, especially as it is there all the time.
Marcellus ~ thanks hun, I can get into my GP on Moday, DD2 doesn't have any signs of thrush, and I can't see anything either, but the ABA's website said that jsut because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there.
**EDIT** Answering more posts!
Knm ~ I certainly don't want to go through the damage again - ouchies!
Infinity ~ thanks hun - you are doing a darn amazing job yourself! I am so glad the shields are working for you, I do wonder with DD1 whether I should have continues with them longer, because ti took so long for her to feed properly, she was deinfitely a months girl. I think I might need to slow down and not rush her, I guess I am seeing as her being that much closer to being a FT bub, that I need to give her more time, she hasn't hit 3 kg yet so isn't particularly big.
Appletree ~ Thanks hun, I hadn't been using the lasinoh, I stopped once they weere healing nicely, and I was also using EBM and airdrying to help the heal in the early days, so I might need to start using it again.
As for today most feeds have been with the shield, she does refuse the shield sometimes after she has detatched, and then if I offer her the naked boob she jumps for it. Her mouth opens up as she is searching for it once she realises that the shield isn't there, but I can't get her to keep it open wide, and most times it is painful, but her last feed she fed witht he shield and then fed beautifully without it causing no pain. I might jsut have to give it a few more weeks and follow her cues, if she refuses the shield to offer no shield to see if she takes it, I am hesitant to cause damage because you can still see the fissues, but they have healed. Maybe I am just a bit too enthusiastic to get her off it, I guess since I noticed the difference in the effectiveness of her sucking and the effect it was hainv in generating uterine contractions it really highlighted that it is generating a lot more stimulation than she is with the shield. I may have to be more patient and give it more time.
My only thought was vasospasm. Do your nipples hurt when you get out of the shower, or when they're erect and unclothed? Dd had good attachment but used to slip a bit when sleepy, which was enough to cause some trauma to my nipples and helped create a vasospasm effect for a few weeks, where my nipples would sting everytime they were exposed.
A warm washer on hand before and after feeds really helpedcand keeping clothed as much as possible.
Google vasospasm and see what you think. Thrush is more painful i understand, but gee my nipples used to burn.
Thanks Arcadia I do get pain when I get cold, but I thought that was normal, I will ahve a closer look at the colour to see if there is a triphasic change. I cracked up laughing when I read what the treatment is... Nifedipine I'd been on it since 22 weeks pregnant and stopped just prior to my CS being started. I actually gave all my Nifedipine to my OB to put in her stash for other mums needing it quickly and I threw out all my prescriptions on Friday, so I can't even just give it a shot.
Over night I did all feeds with the shields, still a bit painful, but not continuous like it was when I wasn't using them and doing a combo of with and without.
It sounds to me like you might have an infection. The pain between feeds can be thrush, but recent research has shown that it is more often an infection. A course of antibiotics might be an idea to see if the pain goes away. Of course antibiotics will make you more prone to thrush too, so some probiotics as well could be a good idea.
I hope something works for you soon - even though you are doing so well at putting up with the pain, it would be much better not to have it!!
OK it has taken me time to get back in and give an update, I saw the Dr and there doesn't seem to be an infection, or thrush, so it may be a size thing or her attachment just isn't consistently good.
So I have decided to just stick with the shields for a few more weeks, otherwise I will end up with badly damaged nipples again, which I don't want to do and you can still see the damage for the early days, and I am finally pain free again
She is getting plenty of milk and is very settled between feeds and feels heavier so I don't think there are any weight gain problems and she has certainly grown in length as she is now in 0000 suits for the length in the legs and body, but they are so baggy on her they look quite funny the 00000 pants and starting to fit around the waist and tops fit well
My only concern is she is now quite a chucky baby, they are getting bigger and now at every feed, she is pretty much only having one side per feed, so my supply is great, and I finished the Motilium last Friday and I'm not taking anything else to increase my supply, it just sees that DD2 is feeding so much better than DD1 ever did, and I haven't placed any pressure on myself or am I receiving it from others. Just the "oh so you aren't letting her comfort suck are you (its a bit hard to stop it ).. and... you aren't demand feeding are you" *rolls eyes* the typical smile and nod.......
So should I be concerned about the chucking, she is quite happy so i don't think it is bad, but it can't be nice and everytime it comes flying out her nose as well, and we are getting quite a few projectile one's too ?
I need some advice please....
and within minutes of the MW leaving us alone DD2 started to suck, she then sucked beautifully for a good 10 minutes, it was enough for her to avoid the F. I had colustrum (didn't have it with DD1 even though it was a VB), we then went through the same battle with the MW's for the next 24 hours. We got through them with DD2 losing weight (completely normal) only just holding above the 10% line. She fed well for 2 days, putting on 30 and 40 grams, then she lost the weight again, once again threatened with an NGT by the MW's (mine was off for four days 
), I refused, her Paed said no, he said they should throw away the scales and look at the baby and mother. We were both fine 
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what feels right? Or better?
She is nearly impossible to detatch, won't even let me wiggle my little finger in to break the seal, and suck is so strong (which is a great thing) her so I can only go no shield once she has finished a side... today I have managed to get her to feed with the shield and then finish without it reasonably sucessfully. I definitely noticed my let down a lot quicker this time and it does feel stronger than I remember with DD1.
, but I wouldn't consider it normal, especially as it is there all the time.
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