Nipples too sore, can't bf, getting depressed

The way I see it, if you're posting in here it's because you want some support and encouragement for the pursuit of BFing. You'll get that from me here! When I was having problems, in tears every night, bleeding and cracked nipples with blisters, oversupply and soggy sheets every nights, a baby who could barely attach to such huge boobs etc, I spoke to people who had BF. In fact, I spoke to my friends who had BFd beyond 12 months, more than once. Not one person I spoke to suggested that formula might solve my problems because they knew it wouldn't - I wanted to BF and I wanted BFing advice and support. It's not always possible to be surrounded by the support that I got, and I understand that. DP was my biggest supporter of all, too (he's not much chop in other areas where I need support, but he came through on this one!).
If you want a place where people are going to say you did the right thing by switching, there is a place here on BB for that and it's not in BF support. By that I'm not saying you didn't do the 'right thing', that's not my place to say, and I won't brook any misinterpretation of what I'm saying. Right here is where you'll get people like me who will say that it's possible to see past those very dark clouds and blindly pursue something that is so worth it, long term :)
I personally wouldn't have found it very helpful, during my time of need, to be told that it's ok to switch to formula. It wasn't what I needed and I probably would have bitten the head off anyone who said that to me.
If you feel BFing is important, come back and we'll tell you more about what we did to overcome 'horrendous' feeds in the middle of the night. If you don't, then please take heart in what other BB members have to tell you in other threads. Just please don't accept misinformation as support (eg formula is as good as breast milk etc), because if you're going to switch, you may as well know the truth about formula and what you can do to counteract the risks associated with it - sugarcoating the reality of formula only cheats you and your infant.
Regardless of which thread you post in, everybody wants the best for you and your baby, just remember that, ok? :hug:

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Regardless of which thread you post in, everybody wants the best for you and your baby, just remember that, ok? :hug:

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If you need a cheer squad, I'm right here baby. :p With all the encouragement I can give!

Really looking forward to hearing how you'll find the manual breastpump, by the way! Curious to know how you'll find they compare, I've never used an electric.
Hope you're having a really great sleep inbetween feeds. :)

I'm her to cheer you on as well. The support from this forum got me through my rough experience. If you can get through the next few weeks it will be sooo worth it.

Give the manual pump a try. It is so much gentler on the nipples. In the hospital they used an electric pump on me (when i was engorged and crying0 and I found it just as painful as breastfeeding. The manual pump though was fabulous.

I agree with the manual pump. You just can't vary the pressure on the electric ones any where near as well. I've got an Avent one. It's brilliant :D

Prama hun, after all thats said and done I think everyone can agree that you've put your all into this and that alone makes you an absolute hero. I think all the emphasis on BFing is meant as encouragement to mothers who wont even give it a go and many people let BF vs FF get out of hand. What matters is getting bubs fed so he grows and keeping you sane so the two of you can start building a relationship. I think you need to take some time out to clear your head, keeping your options open for the time being, get some well deserved sleep, maybe go and spend some quality time with DH for an hour even and forget about all of this for a bit and focus on you. Recharge yourself hun, and then make a decision about what you want to do. Remember the rest of us in bellybuddies love you and support you whatever you decide to do.
It'll be much easier to make a decision on what you want to do after you've had some rest and then to have the strength to weigh up the possibilities. Just remember that you're amazing for making it this far, and for caring enough that even now after all thats happened you haven't given up and had a complete meltdown.
We love you. :grouphug:



On a side note to everyone else, you've all said your bit and i think we need to stop the debate over BF vs FF this isn't the place. I've been ok with all the issues i had BFing until now and now i feel bad after all the debate. If I feel bad after getting over it 2 years ago imagine how poor Prama feels.

Prama, its a bl00dy tough road to travel when we start BF and I've always said that BFing 'is natural but it certainly doesn't always come naturally'. It's a learned experience for both of you and I'm thinking that him bieng a bit early has thrown you all out of whack and you mentally weren't prepared for it to happen when it did kwim? Your baby, even though is nearly 2wks old is still learning about this bad old world and everything is new to him and on top of all that he's probably like 'what? you put me in this strange new place and on top of that you want me to feed like I've done it before?" With the expressing, sometimes the pump just isn't as efficient as a baby suckling and you will get less with a pump than you will a baby.

At the end of the day though it all comes down to how much you want it to happen. I think my first BF experience could have been a whole lot differnt if I wasn't given a bum steer my a midwife who told me 'if it's not hurting he's not on properly' and literally tore him off my breast when I said it didn't hurt this time and because of that terible advice we went on to have attachment issues that never resolved. But i'm not a person who lives with regret, so yes, while I wish things had worked out differently, it doesn't bother me now.

And the other thing is, happy baby doesn't always equal happy mum. I think some women are consoled into happiness by seeing that their baby is happy.

Good luck Prama, and know that if you decide to change your mind and try full time BF again, you will get plenty of support here.

Jade whilst I agree with you, I think formula discussions should remain out of this forum. This forum is for support for breastfeeding not formula. If a person was having difficulties with formula brands and a BF'er went into the formula section and told them they should start relactating people would find that inappropriate too. This is why we have seperated the two forums, so that there is no BF vs. FF.

Prama I just want to tell you that you have my support to, I will stand and cheer as long and as hard as you need! You can do this, if you want to continue to breastfeed formula is a short term fix which doesn't actually help with breastfeeding difficulties. I turned to formula with my first after advice from a paed and it didn't fix anything, it actually made things worse, and when I tried to re-establish bf'ing she wouldn't have a bar of it. Bottle feeding wasn't easier, and I see that now. Making up bottles in the middle of the night, forgetting how many scoops of formula, needing to take bottles with me wherever I went, trying to find somewhere to reheat a bottle etc. Whereas for me after we got over the "teething problems" it was overall a lot easier in the long run, I could feed on the run, I never had to sterilise or anything and it was definitely a lot easier on my pocket. As for the sleeping, it made no difference. At first I thought it was but then it actually made it worse. At the end of the day you have to do what is right for you, but I think with the right support you really can do this (if you feel its something you want to do). With regards to the pain in your nipples have you tried strengthening them in the shower? I know it sounds strange but I got my gf to do this as she had similar problems, it wasn't that her baby was latching incorrectly it was just that her nipples were sensitive. Also with my SIL she could never pump effectively and so it wasn't a very accurate guide to her milk. And she went on to feed her twin sons yet if she tried to pump she would get nothing.

Please know I am here for support, and you shouldn't feel bad for whatever you decide is best for your family.

Jade you're right this isn't the place for BF vs FF, which was my point exactly. It is a BF support thread, and while all opinions were welcomed by prama, let's not forget what this forum is for.

And BTW not one BFing poster has referred to FF in offensive terms. As Raven said, if you've chosen to FF, then own your decision, but to say that BFers are making you feel guilty about FF in a BF support thread isn't fair, as the very purpose of the thread is to help encourage BFing to those who seek help here.

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I think it was Prama's intention to find help from everyone, there is no plain 'feeding' forum and since its all based around BFing she chose this one. What i believe she was after were people's stories, not so much opinion on what's better and to generally have a vent about all thats going on for her.


I never said that anyone referred to FFing in offensive terms, but as Bindy said it is a sensitive topic and some posts were, although not offensive, strongly worded.
I'm going to end my part of this discussion here as its not the place for this either.

I look forward to hearing from you again in the bellybuddies forum Prama, we should be having some more babies very very soon i think! :hug:

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there is no plain 'feeding' forum

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Actually there is:

Breastfeeding, Bottlefeeding and Solids

Just so everyone is aware.

okay now that everyone's clear that this is a BFing support forum, and that posts in here presume BFing support is sought and therefore BFing advice should be given, the mods would appreciate that the thread either returns to the topic or it will be closed.

Prama, BF is not easy! and while there is a place for formula, in medically needed situations such as the one which my little 1 has, it is worth seeking as much help as possible.
I really wanted to BF for longer than 5 weeks and knew what it should feel like having done it before, but Em was not capable of doing it and we saw almost every LC in the hospy when em was diagnosed with faliure to thrive. yes formula can help while you are trying to recover, but giving up without seeking as much help as possible is not fair on u or milkshake.
i wish i had sought help when i stopped BFing Sarah but my goal is to BF a baby for longer than 6 months, lets hope it happens next time. spend a few days in bed with him and just offer open access to the bb and hopefully he will take to it. it you really need to you might be able to put some nipple balm on them. there r some that dont need to be removed to feed.

Hun if you do decide to FF i have a thread that is a bit of a vent but it sure made me feel better, and it contains more of Em's story here it is. whatever you do will be the best descision for both you and milkshake so please dont feel that i am pushing you either way, but know that you have everyones support in your choice. it is not fair to be feeling that because you are considering FFing that you are not going to be giving him the best, it is not just what is best for him, it is what is best for your whole family. please persist hun, but if you need to change him for everyones sake, please dont feel guilty.

Prama, as hard as it may be to believe right now, it's possible to have the blind faith that it does 'just click' and have that faith to see you through the mad nights.
If you're not feeling particularly maternal now, sweetheart, making the full switch to formula will reduce this feeling even more. This is because breastfeeding is your best shot for your body to produce oxytocin and prolactin - these hormones not only help your baby to love you, they most certainly help mummies to bond with their babies in a way that formula feeding mummies can't replicate (this is not an emotive line on my part, it's empirically supported, and it doesn't mean that FF mummies don't love their babies dearly! It means that it has been shown that the quality of bonding does not match that of BF pairs till about 12 months of age). What I'm saying is that if you're low on oxytocin and prolactin, you'll lose out on whatever you've got if you stop BFing and I don't know what you could do to compensate for that (only cos I haven't needed to look into it, there probably are some ideas out there, though - this is what I mean about knowing what you're doing if you're going to do it). Please just be aware of this, for both of your sakes, chicky.
It's so hard to believe, but it's SOOO worth it to push through - it can't be horrendous forever. Look at me, 20 months on, I don't forget what we had to go through to have this relationship. It seems like such a blip on our time scale! So, if you think I'm being smug about being able to BF, think again - it's not smugness, it's gratitude :)

prama- i used some nipple shields for about 3 weeks when i first got home and they really helped me. i know they're not for everyone, but i know they really helped me get through a rough start to bfing, and they gave my nipples a chance to 'toughen up' a bit. my nipples did change- they seemed to become stronger, less sensitive and now i have no pain whatsoever bfing. i absolutely love it, to be honest with you, and am in no hurry to stop anytime soon :) all i can say is, give it your best shot, cos it is very worthwhile and rewarding. you will get lots of support on here- barb and manta ray were particularly helpful for me in establishing bfing. let us know if there's anything any of us can do..:)

Prama, I also had a horrid midwife in hospital who kept shoving Angus onto my boob so roughly during one shift that I got cracked and blistered nipples which then bled for about 4 weeks. Due to this one off trauma, they took ages to heal and I dreaded him crying for a feed, as I just wanted one more hour to heal up, and to not have the pain. We also had other issues, bad reflux, poor weight gains, poor hunger levels, blocked duct and white spot, and mastitis. The worst was treating the duct and white spot (it involved a needle.....) then feeding every 2 hrs. I used to take panadol and cry my eyes out for every feed for a week back then. Like you, I also had to feed him, then pump, then top up with the EBM, then sterilise everything and start again - it took so much of my time I couldn't eat. In my heart though I never wanted to do anything but BF, so in spite of the pain, the dread, the fear, and the lack of sleep, we kept going. We hit our straps at 6 weeks old and haven't looked back since, and he's 8 months at the end of this week.

What I am trying to say is that BF is really hard and quite painful in those early days and I'm sorry nobody told you about the reality - I was told and I'm glad I was prepared. I can understand how you feel you lost time to yourself with baby coming early, but I think that might be a different issue to the feeding one. I also have the Avent manual pump and it was a godsend, very gentle and you can vary it easily yourself, so it was great.

If you can maintain your supply by pumping while you heal up a bit, and recover a little more, you buy yourself some time to think about BF'ing again. I know in those early days I wasn't capable of a rational decision so I just took what people told me - luckily they knew my strong desire to BF so that's all they told me! Perhaps in a week or so you may have healed and recovered enough to try again with a kind, gentle and supportive LC - kind of like starting again, make it your 'first feed'.

Good luck Prama (PS and welcome to your lovely little baby)

Hi girls,

Thanks so much for all your thoughts and support. I think I might have opened up a can of worms here. That was not my intention. I did not want this to be a BF vs FF thread.
As Jade said, I just wanted to hear experiences and have a vent. Hearing women having the same problems as me, made me realise I wasnt alone. I just needed someone to listen as well. The whole BF process was making me depressed, and switching to Formula for the last couple of days gave me the sleep I needed and more rational about my choices. I feel I'm bonding with bub a lot more now. (This is nothing to do with BF or FF per se, just me having more sleep and having DH or mum feeding him.)

I'm giving it one last go. I got some Motilium today, and just taken the first tablet. I'll see if my milk production goes up, and I'll try feeding bub with a nipple shield. I know what my options are now. At least when I decide, I know I've tried.

Thanks so much again for all your kind words, support and thoughts.
And sorry if feelings got hurt.. it wasnt meant to be a FF vs BF.

Going to get an hrs' sleep before bub gets up for his feed.

prama,

please know the BF/FF issues discussed in this thread have nothing to do with your situation as such. The truth is, everyone was well-meaning and wanted to support you, and no one wanted you to feel bad about whatever decision you made.

It was simply that this is a BFing support forum, and as such it is assumed that if you post here, you are looking for support to keep BFing. I'm also glad to hear some sleep and a little bit of space had helped you as much as it has. Remember though, every members here supports you and your decisions, whatever that may be.