Urgent help needed-DS won't latch

[onthefly]

Em, has anyone explained to you how to tell whether your baby is getting enough milk? I am constantly amazed at how many new mums leave hospital/midwifery care without anyone explaining this (me included, first time round).
Before your milk comes in, you expect one wet nappy per day of life. So 1 on day 1, 2 on day 2, etc. The poos start as black mec, then change toward orangy/mustardy once the milk starts to come in. After that, you expect at least 2-3 poos (soft, unformed) and 4-5 wet nappies per day. Watching nappies is one of the easiest things to do on your own to gauge how you're going.
It's normal for babies to feed 8-12 times in 24 hours, but not necessarily at regular intervals. And it's normal to feed more often than this on some days, and to have fussy times where they feed very frequently, *especially* when your milk is about to come in.
Baby knows. Baby knows they need to feed frequently. Baby knows the milk is coming.

If anyone ever tells you you're starving your baby again, perhaps ask them how they can tell. Ask for specific evidence that your baby is starving and then consider this against what you can tell with your own eyes with regards to nappy output, growth, appearance, etc of your baby. It's really a terrible thing to say to a new mother and I hope you never have to hear it again.

[HotI]

we were still awake I caved and called the nightshift midwife (same one as the night before) for some advice on what we can do who told me I was starving him and its not about me and what I want and he needs formula.

oh you poor thing. i had a night shift midwife tell me i was starving my first bub too, and i still remember how horrible it felt. I think it was the night before my milk came in too, all that sucking was helping the milk to come through, but it was hard to see that with little sleep and a baby that couldn't settle.

is your partner able to hold baby for you for awhile today so you can get some rest?

take care, you sound like you are really doing well.

[Teeki]

Oh Em, I am so mad for you! What an awful thing to say to a new mum I'm so glad though that you'd had support during the day and had the confidence to tell her no. It makes me sad to think how many mums who wanted to breastfeed may have turned to formula unnecessarily thanks to her "support". I know you were considering making a complaint, please do. Women need support, not to be told they are starving their baby.

MadBs advice is perfect - if you know yourself that your baby is fine, and you know why he's feeding for long periods/not long after the last feed, you'll be fine with telling her that everything's ok and you don't need formula. I also agree with the ABA membership, they were great when I was starting out with DD.

I also found with both DD and DS that they settled easier and slept better during the day than at night. Take advantage and nap when you can!

You're doing a wonderful job xo

[Ladylove]

EVERYTHING MadB said! I am so angry at that midwife. That's not responsible, that's not helpful and that's not accurate.

Also it is normal for baby to be unsettled between feeds. My DD was up most of 24 hours for the first week, she would nap for only very short bouts of time. The world, only a few days of it, is so overwhelming for them right now! Physically and emotionally. Keep doing what you are doing, as you are doing everything right. If hand expressing is comfortable for you to do, do a little bit after or between each feed to hand-feed her, this will also help your milk come in.

[Em_325]

First of all I want to thank you all for the support. It has made a huge difference to me with my confidence levels and I owe you lovely ladies alot

MadB- no one had told me any of that until last night. It is extremely helpful as he has exceeded those nappy guidelines so he must be getting enough. My milk is in now so it's better as I can see it in his mouth when he pulls off so I know he is getting fed something.

I ended up making a complaint about the formula midwife and got a new one assigned to me for last night. I didn't realise how stressed I was about having to deal with her again until I had an absolute meltdown (day 3 blues have well and truly arrived) and had a good talk with a very pro bf midwife who then told me the above facts about nappies etc and was horrified at what had been said and done to me. The formula midwife really has affected my confidence though . He had a bit of trouble latching on this morning and I was already feeling emotional so got stressed and forgot the logic and just thought that I couldn't do this and I'm starving my baby. I think I just got truly unlucky with DS being born at night and having to deal with her in the initial after birth hours. I know I'll get past it though once my emotions are settled as we are doing well and also as I know I have a safe place like BB I can come for advice but how many other mums has she said this to that might not have the support and knowledge? That's why I'm glad I said something as at least now her supervisor is aware of it.

[onthefly]

Oh you're fabulous! Making a complaint at 3 days post birth! Well done you. Go mumma, seriously.

Always, always remember the indicators of good milk intake. If you're not sure, call the ABA, or look on the ABA website. If you join up, you'll get a book that includes all this (and much much more, as well). Nappies are one of the first indicators of change. If you're worried, think about the nappies - if they're the same, then clearly he's still getting plenty.

The other useful piece of information is knowing whether your baby is feeding effectively. Some good signs are a good, deep latch and painfree feeds. Seeing your baby swallowing after the letdown - you may not feel the letdown, but you can tell by the change in your baby's feeding and swallowing rhythm that it's happened.

Mothers don't starve their babies. Sometimes they struggle to feed their babies and need help, but they're not starving them. It's a truly unprofessional - and entirely wrong - thing to say.

[Ladylove]

How are you going Em?

[Em_325]

To be honest not very well. He just can't get a good latch onto my flat nipples. It was taking us an hour to get him on and that was with assistance so I've switched to feeding him expressed milk with bottles and have brought formula as a back up. I can't get into see a lactation consultant until Wednesday and it was making me really resent him as our time together was being taken up with these feeding issues. I really have tried and I'm feeling terribly guilty about giving up but I have an anxiety disorder so I need to try and look after myself mentally as well. I'm hoping it won't be too late by Wednesday to start again if i keep pumping but I don't know if I will be able to keep up as he is having 100ml per feed. Please don't judge me for this it has been incredibly stressful and I really didnt like the way it was making me feel about my baby. As it is it has totally ruined my confidence with him and I'm now doubting myself over every aspect.

[HotI]

Hugs Em, the first days and weeks with a baby can be so tough. Hopefully the LC has some answer for you.

Have you tried nipple shields at all?

Keep up skin to skin cuddles, they are good for baby and mum no matter how baby is fed.

take care

[onthefly]

Em, you need lots of love and support right now. I hope you have people at home with you helping you out
Wednesday must seem like a long way away right now. Are there any other LCs you could try to get in sooner with? Have you tried calling the helpline at all - counsellors are always happy to just talk you through how things are and give you support.
Did anybody at the hospital check your baby for tongue tie or other physiological problems that might be affecting his ability to latch?

[Em_325]

Thanks Hoti it is appreciated. I just tried him again on the breast and he latched straight on first go so maybe the pumping is helping bring my nipples out or maybe we just fluked it but ill keep trying and keep pumping and we will see where we end up. We tried nipple shields but he won't take them. I'm really hoping once we see the lactation consultant we can continue our feeding but I'm really trying to find peace with the fact he may end up being a formula fed baby.

[Em_325]

MadB- I have DH's cousins staying with us. Last night she fed him the ebm so I could sleep as I was exhausted and suffering from bad baby blues so I definitely have the support. No one has checked him out but I can see he doesn't have the normal tongue tie but the LC said it sounds like he may have a posterior tongue tie as he really struggles to get his tongue under my nipple. I have tried hard to get into a LC sooner but everyone is fully booked. As it is the only way I got an appt with this LC is because the child health nurse did a deal with her to help me out. I have called the ABA a few times but I really need someone to be able to see what is going on.

[little_O]

I know the feeling Em where it feels like bfing is consuming everything. You're right, you need to keep yourself in a mentally good place too.

That's great he had a good latch this last time! I had so many bfing issues. In the end I used an advent nipple shield that had a cut out for nose and chin so they are practically all on your breast. These worked great for dd. She ended up feeding to 15 months on the shields! Maybe see if they work?

Also does your hospital have a post natal nurse you can see? I was able to get into my hospitals one and that tied me over till the LC was free.

[onthefly]

Yes, you're right, you do need to see someone in person.
You're doing such a great job persevering and still reaching out to people for help. It will be worthwhile. Take care

[Ladylove]

Em you are doing a great job! It is really hard to get the hang of breastfeeding in the early weeks even without the unjust pressure of bad midwives and anxiety. You are not alone in feeling this this. I was exactly the same. Hang onto the memory of the good latch your clever little baby learned today. I'd give nipple shields a go too if it is flat nipples and / or if you are still experiencing pain. Lots of the girls here have used them for similar reasons with great success.

[JLeigh29]

Keep up the great work. I love that you haven't given up and are expressing for your beautiful boy until you get some answers. SIL's little girl had a tiny tongue tie too but they stopped BFing before it was diagnosed... I think she wishes they'd a)known and b) persisted until they knew, itms.

Glad you're also getting some support too so that you can look after yourself too.