How long will the tears last - should I pull him out?

[Curly]

We've just moved up here to Queensland and in the absence of 3yo kinder up here in Qld I have put DS into daycare twice a week - just from 9.00am-2.00pm. DS is 3 years old.

I had a great mother's group in Victoria and I want him to have the opportunity to play with kids, I know he is missing his little friends from MG. Plus I'm 6 months pregnant, DD is 15 months and I'm having a couple of health issues with this pregnancy so we are home a lot more than I would like, and that is going to be even worse once Number 3 arrives. So I really think this would be good for him.

He hasn't been to daycare before, he's always been home with me. I did try and put him in daycare when he was 10 months old but it went so badly I decided not to return to work. Then when he was 18 months old he was doing a delayed speech course through the RCH and they had organised qualified carers to look after the kids while the parents were given the theory in the next room, but DS was so hysterical he wound up sitting on my lap for the entire 6 week course.

So this time around I really thought he was ready and the first day he was SO excited about going to "school" as he called it we even had to pack his pencil case into his backpack. And now it's all gone downhill.

He cries nonstop for a good hour and a half before he goes - DH actually has to take him because he gets more hysterical when Mummy takes him. Last week I couldn't physically get him in the car because he was kicking out and running away.

But when I go to pick him up he is so excited to see me and he tells me he's had fun at school. However, when we talk about it at home, he tells me he felt sad at school because he missed me and he doesn't like school and doesn't want to go. I try and ask him about the fun or happy things he did and he will then tell me he didn't have fun and only did sad things . The carers tell me he calms down almost immediately after he is dropped off and he is fine the whole time he is there. They have also said that it is normal for it to be all exciting the first week and then the kids to be all "been there done that, I don't need to come back" and then get upset.

DH and I don't know what to do. Should we persevere a bit longer - this has been 4 weeks now. Really, DS doesn't HAVE to go, he could stay home with me, but Mummy is pretty boring at the moment and DS even says that he is bored sometimes. The carers have told me to persevere "otherwise he'll be a nightmare when he has to go to school" but this doesn't hold a lot of water with me...he would be 2 years older by the time he starts prep.

I guess I'm just putting him in care for socialisation reasons. He does go to playgroup and swimming lessons and a couple of other activities and I know he wants to play with other little boys...I seem to only be meeting people with girls!

Will it improve? Is this normal? I don't want to be putting up with over an hour of crying every morning it is a daycare morning and I don't want him to be there if he doesn't want to be and he doesn't have to be...

[Pandora]

..
But when I go to pick him up he is so excited to see me and he tells me he's had fun at school. However, when we talk about it at home, he tells me he felt sad at school because he missed me and he doesn't like school and doesn't want to go. I try and ask him about the fun or happy things he did and he will then tell me he didn't have fun and only did sad things . The carers tell me he calms down almost immediately after he is dropped off and he is fine the whole time he is there. They have also said that it is normal for it to be all exciting the first week and then the kids to be all "been there done that, I don't need to come back" and then get upset.
...

What is your main concern - the behaviour before you take him, or what is happening while he is there?

Crying at drop off can be pretty normal, and it can come and go. If he really is calming down and having fun very quickly, can you stay behind (unseen by your DS) to make sure that thats what is happening, as that might give you some reassurance.
OR, you coudl leave (at our centre if DS is upset the carer will take him outside where he can see the driveway and he will wave goodbye to me/dh) and then drive around the block and come back and sneak in to have a look?

If you can he him having fun and doing things then you *know* that once you leave he gets on with it, as a lot of children do.

DS is 4 he has been in daycare since about 7 months old and STILL goes through phases of not wanting to go and literally sobbing and clinging on to me, and others he runs off without looking back.

Its also significantly less traumatic if DH takes him than if its me

WRT the getting upset before I havent been through that, so Im not sure, other thatn reiterating how much fun he had the last time, or find out from the teachers which other children he plays with and let him know he gets to play with XYZ today etc

DS often does the same thing after creche he wil tell me that he had a wonder ful time and then later hes says he was sad or XYZ happens. The in the next breath he might say - oh not today though mummy, that was a long time ago.

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

I guess its not something anyone else can really advise you about, you know? You know your son, and you know how much he can take. I did think it sounded encouraging that he calms down as soon as he is dropped off and is fine while he's there, but you're the one who has to cope with the crying in the mornings - I helped drop my nephew off at daycare yesterday, and he cried when we left, it almost broke my heart, I even offered to look after him so he didn't hafta go!

[Ginger]

To be completely honest, if it were me, i would pull him out.
It's just not worth the stress...he obviously loves being with you, so for now, i would let him xoxox

[Curly]

I guess I'm bothered because I don't know what the truth is.

I actually have a few memories of pre-school and none of them are happy ones, I didn't particularly like being there, I didn't know how to play with other kids but I know I never would have said so to my mother because I knew I had no choice and I had to go.

This is part of the reason I want DS to go to daycare...because I remember having no idea how to play with other kids. I'd always been at home with Mum, no cousins and at that point no siblings either.

I also remember being put into school holiday care and absolutely hating every minute of it, hated the kids, hated the carers, would ask if I could stay home but was told no way, I had to go. I got picked on by the other kids but the carers really had no idea. And I told Mum that I hated it but she didn't believe me because once (only once) I had fun when I made a box in a craft class so she would always say "but maybe you'll do craft again today" and march me out to the car.

So my own experiences are colouring this, I suppose. I can't figure out if he really is having fun or if he is just putting up with it till Mummy comes to get him.

[Pandora]

In that case, Id defintely drop him off and go back later to check how he is going, without him knowing you are there. Maybe a couple of times if you are able, that way you will get a true sense of how he's doing at daycare, and how hes coping without mum.

[Crystalwings]

As a child care worker I see children of all ages go through stages of seperarion anxiety. IMO there are some children who cope better in smaller environments such as family day care which may be an option if you DS just will not settle however there are some strategies I would try first:

The things I would try first though are going to the centre with your DS and playing with him there for an hour or 2 once or twice a week for a few weeks so he can see that it's a place that you like and feel safe in. This may be enough for him to realise that day care can be a trusting place.

Making a weekly schedule for your DS with each day and what he is doing on that day. Include a photo of each activity eg monday - the park with mummy, tuesday - daycare and things he likes doing there, wednesday - playgroup etc etc. Having the visual prewarning of his routine may also help your DS to feel safer.

Good luck
HTH

[AnyDream]

Curly, I have vivid memories of being taken to a childcare centre/kindy where I wasn't coping and wasn't happy. I remember going a number of times and I don't know what I said/did but my mother pulled me out, kept me home for a week or two, then tried again at a different kindy...this was was smaller, had fewer children, had more activities set up all the time, and I remember being very happy there from my very first day. So, perhaps it's not childcare generally, it could be something about this particular environment that doesn't suit your son's disposition. Have you checked out any other centres and/or family day care? FDC is a great alternative because there are fewer people there to be overwhelmed by, it's more like visiting someone you know than a CC centre. 4 weeks is a long time for a child to be displaying signs of unhappiness like that.

Sorry I know that doesn't answer your q but I hope it gives you another way to think about this experience while you make your decision.

[Curly]

Hi girls

Just wanted to thank you all for your input.

When I picked up DS last Wednesday he was very happily playing trains with another little boy which was great to see - so that's one worry out of the way, he is actually interacting with the other kids.

So now DH and I have decided to give it till the end of the month and see if the crying in the morning improves. An hour and a half for both mornings is a bit beyond the pale.

DS will say now that he has fun at "school" but he also says he doesn't want to go. So we are still in two minds over whether or not he is really having fun or is just putting up with it.

At the end of the month he will have been going for 8 weeks - is that enough time to assess whether or not this is working out?

[Mak]

My 3.5 year old has had ongoing issues with being left at cc. I found recently that having some play dates at home/park with some of the kids she gets on with has helped heaps also. It is a bit tricky when you first start but perhaps chat to the carers and see if there is someone in particular DS gets along with. I felt so silly but popped a note in the pigeon hole - I may have even found a friend for me too!!! Good luck it is really hard - xxxx

[Mummato2]

I ran FDC for a little while and whilst the example I am going to give you is an extreme boy with a few issues (whereas your little man sounds like a normal 3 year old), the behaviours were the same (not wanting to go, but having fun while there etc)

I took on a 3 1/2 year old boy and his sister who was 2 1/2.

The first month was great until the day came that he had spent the weekend with his grandparents, Monday came along and because he hadn't seen his mum (dad picked him up from Grans and brought him straight to FDC). He screamed the second his father pulled into my street - in fact I could hear him screaming half way up the street while still inside the car.

Dad and son came in, little sister had already settled and found the toys that she was happy to play with - but he just screamed that he didn't want to stay.

I asked Dad to stay for as long as he needed to - 10 minutes later both kids were "settled in".......Dad goes to say goodbye to the kids and son screams to go with him.....this is where I saw red - Dad lets him go with him and keeps the daughter with me.

From that day on, it became a daily battle for him to stay with me in care to the point that he would play until an activity was started that he was less than happy with and would continually scream "mummy, mummy, mummy" until I called his mother.

Now like I said, in this example he had some extreme emotional issues that were compounded by his parents own issues (so this part won't apply to you) however allowing him to call the shots on whether or not he stays created a MAJOR issue moving forward.

FWIW I'm not suggesting you force your son into a situation that he doesn't want to be in - all I am suggesting is before removing him from Care, keep doing what you're doing and talk to the carers, watch from the distance and when you can clearly see he's having fun, when he says at home that he doesn't want to go, gently ask why? It may be just a preference of being with mummy (which is totally understandable) it could be that he doesn't like something there that he hasn't yet told you or it could be that he is just saying that.

As for the hour and a half in the morning of screaming - I can absolutely understand why that would wear thin and be enough to keep him home. To that, I'd suggest trying to calm him down and try asking him what's wrong. See if there is a special toy he'd like to take to show the other kids or ask if he'd like to help you pack his bag with snacks he chooses etc.

Good luck with it all

[Curly]

Mummato2 - that post is scarily relevant!

Today is Fit Kids day - an activity he usually loves. He was all good to go until it was time to leave and then he had a huge meltdown. I bundled him in the car regardless but when we got there he insisted that he hated Fit Kids and carried on like a pork chop, kicking and crying etc.

I was pretty angry with him - I didn't want to give in to him because I know for a fact he enjoys this activity. But I wasn't going to pay $13 for him to cry and sulk and carry on for an hour. I know he didn't get a good sleep last night thanks to DD and from experience I also know he cannot be reasoned with when he is tired. At the same time I couldn't help but see the similarity between this situation and daycare.

So because he refused to go to Fit Kids he doesn't get any TV today and he was going to get a lemonade as a treat today and he doesn't get that either.

That caused another meltdown but I sat quietly with him and asked him if he thought his behaviour was good or naughty. He immediately said that he was naughty. So I have explained that if he was a good boy he would get good things and if he isn't a good boy then he doesn't get good things. That seemed to sink in.

I also explained that he had missed out on a lot of fun which hadn't seemed to have occurred to him. I linked this with school and how Mummy and Daddy take him to things so he can have fun and learn which he also seemed to listen to.

So I've hardened my heart a little bit at the moment!

[Rouge]

That breaks my heart. As I'm sure it does yours. Have you told him how you spend your day? I used to make up really boring things like "Waited in line at the post office/bank etc" or "I cleaned the Bathroom" etc. This way DS didn't think he was missing out. I also would make sure I socialised with the other children as it teaches them how to as well ie. "That's a cool shirt." or "What did you do on the weekend?" Or "Do you know DS likes xxx." The other kids like it when adults include them and it helps break the ice for your kids. Another thing is to give him something special to hold onto. Buy a blank key and say it's a special key for xyz, tell him you're worried you might lose it and you know how good he is at looking after things and could he keep it safe for you whilst you "Insert boring activity in here". Tie it to a piece of rope and attach it to something or pop it in his pocket. Once they have a sense of responsibility or control in that situation it does help. If you aren't time poor maybe say to him you are going to take him late today so that you can have morning tea together so you don't have to do xyz and you can spend time with him. Get to know the children's names and ask him about those kids, talk about what stories he has been reading or how big the train track was etc. And next time you go to the fridge tell him you need a new painting/drawing etc and that xyz (aunt/uncle/grandparent) was commenting on how good their work is and they really want one too etc. Another tip is so that he has an idea of what time you'll be there so we say "After story time I'll be there to pick you up." And if you're still finding it hard let him stay home for a day so that you can do the boring chores and show him how boring it is on those days

Obviously when working it's harder to do these things but if you're at home it helps him to understand that he's actually going to go and have fun.

Engaging with his social group really does help because it enables him to see how they converse through you, and on the off chance it is related to shyness this will help a lot.

Another option is (not sure if it's something you could do being pg) but see if some of the other kids that he plays with have days where they are at home and see if one of the parents would like a playdate, often when kids have friends over in their own territory this helps and it also helps with one on one relating that sometimes kids need.

And another big thing would be is to make sure you have mummy dates with him. Tell him it's something you get to do special with him because now he's a big boy and goes to "School" and you miss that. Even if it's just to the park or to the milk bar to get an icy pole the fact that he is with you on his own will help, especially if he thinks that his sister gets to be with you when he doesn't (this happened with DD when DS was little). But that also might not be a problem either.

Kids go through periods of anxiety just like we do, and sometimes its just a matter of feeling heard. I was told once by a wise woman is that one of the biggest mistakes we make with our kids is that we dismiss their feelings because to us it seems trivial or there can be no alternative. Yet we as adults vent often and would be quite upset if all we got way "Oh don't worry about it, you'll be fine" or "You're being very silly". And since then I've made a concerted effort to ensure that even if I can't change it I listen and acknowledge, because sometimes that's all they want.

(sorry for blabbing I know this is a very jumbled post).

[Mummato2]

Mummato2 - that post is scarily relevant!

Today is Fit Kids day - an activity he usually loves. He was all good to go until it was time to leave and then he had a huge meltdown. I bundled him in the car regardless but when we got there he insisted that he hated Fit Kids and carried on like a pork chop, kicking and crying etc.

I was pretty angry with him - I didn't want to give in to him because I know for a fact he enjoys this activity. But I wasn't going to pay $13 for him to cry and sulk and carry on for an hour. I know he didn't get a good sleep last night thanks to DD and from experience I also know he cannot be reasoned with when he is tired. At the same time I couldn't help but see the similarity between this situation and daycare.

So because he refused to go to Fit Kids he doesn't get any TV today and he was going to get a lemonade as a treat today and he doesn't get that either.

That caused another meltdown but I sat quietly with him and asked him if he thought his behaviour was good or naughty. He immediately said that he was naughty. So I have explained that if he was a good boy he would get good things and if he isn't a good boy then he doesn't get good things. That seemed to sink in.

I also explained that he had missed out on a lot of fun which hadn't seemed to have occurred to him. I linked this with school and how Mummy and Daddy take him to things so he can have fun and learn which he also seemed to listen to.

So I've hardened my heart a little bit at the moment!

Oh wow! Reading this another thing has come to mind.

Please understand that I am not really a "gentle parent" in the sense that if it were a case of battle of the wills, I don't let the kids give in......I believe the parents have a role to play and sometimes it means hardening towards your child.

Now, something you may not realise, but this is very much an age where children are beginning to challenge the status quo and how you react to these challenges will pave the way for where his boundaries will lay.

In the case of this little boy I was telling you about - it was pure manipulation and attention seeking behaviour. I say this because while we were doing things HE liked and had fun with, we were ok - the moment the pace changed and we did something he didn't like, the manipulative behaviours would start. A couple of times I'd get on the phone and pretend to talk to someone - he would stop what he was doing long enough to see if I was calling his mum. If I wasn't, then he'd kick off again and if I did he would instantly stop crying thinking mum is coming and give me half an hour of normal behaviour until he'd start again because he'd know she wasn't coming. To me, if there was a real issue, the crying wouldn't stop....

Now please understand that this is just my opinion but I believe this age group knows manipulative behaviours but in fairness to them - they also don't have the emotional maturity to reason different scenarios in their minds prior to acting. So when one of these moments come up - I think you played it really well. Tell him what he's missing, don't allow him to have "fun" for the day at home with mummy and make it extremely boring - he'll soon realise where the fun is.

I also think attempting to talk to them is important AFTER the meltdown and ask them to tell you why they felt that way.

Keep me posted on how you get on xxx

[Feijoa Mum]

I am lucky enough to never had this with my boys so I can only imagine the stress and anguish this is causing you.
But in my perhaps biased opinion I wouldnt pull him out.
You say he doesnt need to go but what about for you? You have DD home with you and a new baby on the way so having him in daycare is a bit of time for you.
If he is happy and settles when you leave then to me doing what he does, he knows he is pulling at your heart strings. Stay there out of sight just to put your mind at rest that he really does settle easily.
Have you tried the rewards chart? No crying or been upset for two days and he gets a picnic at the park, or a trip to the pools or something like that.

Keep at it, it has only been a month and im sure he will give up once he realises that Mum is not giving in on this one.

[kate81]

We've just moved up here to Queensland and in the absence of 3yo kinder up here in Qld I have put DS into daycare twice a week - just from 9.00am-2.00pm. DS is 3 years old.

I had a great mother's group in Victoria and I want him to have the opportunity to play with kids, I know he is missing his little friends from MG. Plus I'm 6 months pregnant, DD is 15 months and I'm having a couple of health issues with this pregnancy so we are home a lot more than I would like, and that is going to be even worse once Number 3 arrives. So I really think this would be good for him.

He hasn't been to daycare before, he's always been home with me. I did try and put him in daycare when he was 10 months old but it went so badly I decided not to return to work. Then when he was 18 months old he was doing a delayed speech course through the RCH and they had organised qualified carers to look after the kids while the parents were given the theory in the next room, but DS was so hysterical he wound up sitting on my lap for the entire 6 week course.

So this time around I really thought he was ready and the first day he was SO excited about going to "school" as he called it we even had to pack his pencil case into his backpack. And now it's all gone downhill.

He cries nonstop for a good hour and a half before he goes - DH actually has to take him because he gets more hysterical when Mummy takes him. Last week I couldn't physically get him in the car because he was kicking out and running away.

But when I go to pick him up he is so excited to see me and he tells me he's had fun at school. However, when we talk about it at home, he tells me he felt sad at school because he missed me and he doesn't like school and doesn't want to go. I try and ask him about the fun or happy things he did and he will then tell me he didn't have fun and only did sad things . The carers tell me he calms down almost immediately after he is dropped off and he is fine the whole time he is there. They have also said that it is normal for it to be all exciting the first week and then the kids to be all "been there done that, I don't need to come back" and then get upset.

DH and I don't know what to do. Should we persevere a bit longer - this has been 4 weeks now. Really, DS doesn't HAVE to go, he could stay home with me, but Mummy is pretty boring at the moment and DS even says that he is bored sometimes. The carers have told me to persevere "otherwise he'll be a nightmare when he has to go to school" but this doesn't hold a lot of water with me...he would be 2 years older by the time he starts prep.

I guess I'm just putting him in care for socialisation reasons. He does go to playgroup and swimming lessons and a couple of other activities and I know he wants to play with other little boys...I seem to only be meeting people with girls!

Will it improve? Is this normal? I don't want to be putting up with over an hour of crying every morning it is a daycare morning and I don't want him to be there if he doesn't want to be and he doesn't have to be...

Hi there my children were exactly the same and find it hard seperating even now they are ay school. I think joining a playgroup so he can get social stimulation and learn new skills is a good way start being comfortable to play knowing your right there, if you have just moved he might still be getting used to that too. i never had the heart to perservere with child care, if your child is sooo disstressed don't force him there you will have the kinda option for him at 4 and you could deal with the seperation anxiety then when its not an all day thing at kinda like it is at creche i think we should listen to our kids if u had a job that u hated would would u do?? ask yourself that if u were that upset going to work would you go???? He will have plenty of time in the future do adjust to seperation from mum maybe its just a bit too premature an he's not ready to be away from you yet. I suggest playgroup mothers group playdates ect first. May sister just moved to redcliffe from Vic an she moving up to sunshine caost so i know your prob just getting used to your new surroundings too. Hope this helps and good luck