How long will the tears last - should I pull him out?

[Curly]

We've just moved up here to Queensland and in the absence of 3yo kinder up here in Qld I have put DS into daycare twice a week - just from 9.00am-2.00pm. DS is 3 years old.

I had a great mother's group in Victoria and I want him to have the opportunity to play with kids, I know he is missing his little friends from MG. Plus I'm 6 months pregnant, DD is 15 months and I'm having a couple of health issues with this pregnancy so we are home a lot more than I would like, and that is going to be even worse once Number 3 arrives. So I really think this would be good for him.

He hasn't been to daycare before, he's always been home with me. I did try and put him in daycare when he was 10 months old but it went so badly I decided not to return to work. Then when he was 18 months old he was doing a delayed speech course through the RCH and they had organised qualified carers to look after the kids while the parents were given the theory in the next room, but DS was so hysterical he wound up sitting on my lap for the entire 6 week course.

So this time around I really thought he was ready and the first day he was SO excited about going to "school" as he called it we even had to pack his pencil case into his backpack. And now it's all gone downhill.

He cries nonstop for a good hour and a half before he goes - DH actually has to take him because he gets more hysterical when Mummy takes him. Last week I couldn't physically get him in the car because he was kicking out and running away.

But when I go to pick him up he is so excited to see me and he tells me he's had fun at school. However, when we talk about it at home, he tells me he felt sad at school because he missed me and he doesn't like school and doesn't want to go. I try and ask him about the fun or happy things he did and he will then tell me he didn't have fun and only did sad things . The carers tell me he calms down almost immediately after he is dropped off and he is fine the whole time he is there. They have also said that it is normal for it to be all exciting the first week and then the kids to be all "been there done that, I don't need to come back" and then get upset.

DH and I don't know what to do. Should we persevere a bit longer - this has been 4 weeks now. Really, DS doesn't HAVE to go, he could stay home with me, but Mummy is pretty boring at the moment and DS even says that he is bored sometimes. The carers have told me to persevere "otherwise he'll be a nightmare when he has to go to school" but this doesn't hold a lot of water with me...he would be 2 years older by the time he starts prep.

I guess I'm just putting him in care for socialisation reasons. He does go to playgroup and swimming lessons and a couple of other activities and I know he wants to play with other little boys...I seem to only be meeting people with girls!

Will it improve? Is this normal? I don't want to be putting up with over an hour of crying every morning it is a daycare morning and I don't want him to be there if he doesn't want to be and he doesn't have to be...

[Pandora]

..
But when I go to pick him up he is so excited to see me and he tells me he's had fun at school. However, when we talk about it at home, he tells me he felt sad at school because he missed me and he doesn't like school and doesn't want to go. I try and ask him about the fun or happy things he did and he will then tell me he didn't have fun and only did sad things . The carers tell me he calms down almost immediately after he is dropped off and he is fine the whole time he is there. They have also said that it is normal for it to be all exciting the first week and then the kids to be all "been there done that, I don't need to come back" and then get upset.
...

What is your main concern - the behaviour before you take him, or what is happening while he is there?

Crying at drop off can be pretty normal, and it can come and go. If he really is calming down and having fun very quickly, can you stay behind (unseen by your DS) to make sure that thats what is happening, as that might give you some reassurance.
OR, you coudl leave (at our centre if DS is upset the carer will take him outside where he can see the driveway and he will wave goodbye to me/dh) and then drive around the block and come back and sneak in to have a look?

If you can he him having fun and doing things then you *know* that once you leave he gets on with it, as a lot of children do.

DS is 4 he has been in daycare since about 7 months old and STILL goes through phases of not wanting to go and literally sobbing and clinging on to me, and others he runs off without looking back.

Its also significantly less traumatic if DH takes him than if its me

WRT the getting upset before I havent been through that, so Im not sure, other thatn reiterating how much fun he had the last time, or find out from the teachers which other children he plays with and let him know he gets to play with XYZ today etc

DS often does the same thing after creche he wil tell me that he had a wonder ful time and then later hes says he was sad or XYZ happens. The in the next breath he might say - oh not today though mummy, that was a long time ago.

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

I guess its not something anyone else can really advise you about, you know? You know your son, and you know how much he can take. I did think it sounded encouraging that he calms down as soon as he is dropped off and is fine while he's there, but you're the one who has to cope with the crying in the mornings - I helped drop my nephew off at daycare yesterday, and he cried when we left, it almost broke my heart, I even offered to look after him so he didn't hafta go!

[Ginger]

To be completely honest, if it were me, i would pull him out.
It's just not worth the stress...he obviously loves being with you, so for now, i would let him xoxox

[Curly]

I guess I'm bothered because I don't know what the truth is.

I actually have a few memories of pre-school and none of them are happy ones, I didn't particularly like being there, I didn't know how to play with other kids but I know I never would have said so to my mother because I knew I had no choice and I had to go.

This is part of the reason I want DS to go to daycare...because I remember having no idea how to play with other kids. I'd always been at home with Mum, no cousins and at that point no siblings either.

I also remember being put into school holiday care and absolutely hating every minute of it, hated the kids, hated the carers, would ask if I could stay home but was told no way, I had to go. I got picked on by the other kids but the carers really had no idea. And I told Mum that I hated it but she didn't believe me because once (only once) I had fun when I made a box in a craft class so she would always say "but maybe you'll do craft again today" and march me out to the car.

So my own experiences are colouring this, I suppose. I can't figure out if he really is having fun or if he is just putting up with it till Mummy comes to get him.

[Pandora]

In that case, Id defintely drop him off and go back later to check how he is going, without him knowing you are there. Maybe a couple of times if you are able, that way you will get a true sense of how he's doing at daycare, and how hes coping without mum.

[Crystalwings]

As a child care worker I see children of all ages go through stages of seperarion anxiety. IMO there are some children who cope better in smaller environments such as family day care which may be an option if you DS just will not settle however there are some strategies I would try first:

The things I would try first though are going to the centre with your DS and playing with him there for an hour or 2 once or twice a week for a few weeks so he can see that it's a place that you like and feel safe in. This may be enough for him to realise that day care can be a trusting place.

Making a weekly schedule for your DS with each day and what he is doing on that day. Include a photo of each activity eg monday - the park with mummy, tuesday - daycare and things he likes doing there, wednesday - playgroup etc etc. Having the visual prewarning of his routine may also help your DS to feel safer.

Good luck
HTH

[AnyDream]

Curly, I have vivid memories of being taken to a childcare centre/kindy where I wasn't coping and wasn't happy. I remember going a number of times and I don't know what I said/did but my mother pulled me out, kept me home for a week or two, then tried again at a different kindy...this was was smaller, had fewer children, had more activities set up all the time, and I remember being very happy there from my very first day. So, perhaps it's not childcare generally, it could be something about this particular environment that doesn't suit your son's disposition. Have you checked out any other centres and/or family day care? FDC is a great alternative because there are fewer people there to be overwhelmed by, it's more like visiting someone you know than a CC centre. 4 weeks is a long time for a child to be displaying signs of unhappiness like that.

Sorry I know that doesn't answer your q but I hope it gives you another way to think about this experience while you make your decision.

[Curly]

Well yesterday when I went to pick him up he didn't see me straight away so I got to watch him for a bit. He was playing by himself (quite happily it seemed to me) but the carer told me that I'd just happened to catch him at that moment and he had been playing with the boys earlier and he had been interacting with them, not just playing alongside them. I had been a bit concerned about this because he is past the parallel play stage even though I know it is still normal for 3 year olds to parallel play.

Last week when I asked the same question a different carer told me he had only been parallel playing but I am okay with that because DS is a bit reserved and likes to get the lay of the land first so I think he might be warming up now.

When he saw me he was so excited and came rushing over to give me a hug and a kiss and he told me off his own bat he'd had fun and he loved that it was such a nice surprise to see me.

There were less tears this morning and he wants me to come and surprise him again. I'm prepared to give it another 2-4 weeks (he is only going 2 days a week). DH and I agreed if it is still a palaver after 8 weeks of going then we might pull him out. I am also going to try and sneak in there a couple of times which the carers are more than happy for me to do (it's just a bit hard with DD, she loves going there and just goes straight up to the big kids and starts playing with them, so she would give the game away).

It's hard because I am happy with the centre and the carers and the centre comes highly recommended to me by other mums.

[luna moth]

Sticking with it with an escape hatch is a really good plan. I've been working in childcare for 10 years, and I reckon about 1 in 20 kids take longer than their first 5 goes at childcare to settle in. Sounds like he could be one of these.
I highly recommend calling and asking to speak to one of his carers - maybe get them to tell you what time he stops crying. Let them know that you are happy to pick him up earlier if they need you to. Ask them if there's anything they can recommend you doing to help him. (like staying longer, not so long, playing with more things, standing up less, sitting down less, leaving DD elsewhere, whatever!) Just let them know that you really want to work together.

Good luck. I really think you're doing the right thing.

[suse]

Curly, I've been having the same problem - my 27 month old DS just returned to family day care after a two month absence because his carer (who is a family friend of ours) was on maternity leave.

When I started back at work last September he spent about four weeks with my mum, one day a week, then my hours picked up to two days a week and he started doing one day with mum, one day in FDC. Starting FDC either coincided with or manifested in a lot of separation anxiety that seemed to have a sensory component to it, when we went to a playground or somewhere with a lot of activity or noise he would become very upset and wouldn't let me put him down, after about ten minutes he would happily disengage from me and play. Prior to this he'd been very independent since starting to walk. Swimming lessons were the worst - he would be very distressed, wouldn't go into the pool, and when in the pool he would not settle. I started going back into the pool with him, and even then he would only calm if I was holding him, as soon as I would let go so he could join in an activity, he would get distressed again. Prior to this he would be delighted to get in the pool, it was a total shift in behaviour.

At FDC, he would get very distressed when we got there, but would settle literally within a minute of me leaving, and would spend the day happily playing and engaging with the other kids and our carer (prior to starting day care he was very familiar with both the carer, the kids there, and the environment, as we visited them frequently since he was born). By the time our carer went on leave, he was starting to settle well into arriving at day care and wouldn't become distressed, but the separation anxiety was still apparent.

He's not been prone to separation anxiety over the break from FDC, even though he's still been spending two days a week with my mum. Today we went back for the first time, and he started sobbing as we walked through the gate. He was distressed enough that even a BF couldn't comfort him, although I was able to get him to calm down with some sultanas. When I left, he became distressed again, although he smiled as he said goodbye when I left, and I could see that he calmed within a minute of me leaving (he couldn't see me). He had a great day, slept really well, played happily and was happy all day. When I returned, he was happy for a minute or two then got incredibly upset again.

TBH, I am in the same situation as you - he doesn't need to go to day care, he only goes for socialisation. I am trying to work out whether the benefits he is likely to get in any way compensate for the resultant separation anxiety. I am not convinced that settling within minutes and being happy throughout the day means that he is not being affected by it - it seems that anxiety related to day care may be manifesting in other ways. But maybe he just needs time to resettle to the routine and these other issues were just coincidental. Like you, I plan to give it a few weeks and then see what happens.

Like you - I don't buy the 'but he needs to learn to separate otherwise he'll have difficulty later' line - I don't feel that forcing the issue is not likely to do him any good. I've adopted a gentle parenting strategy, I don't see any reason to deviate from it now.

Just wanted to let you know that you're not the only one out there experiencing this - it's a tough decision!

[~mia-childs~]

You could try arranging with the staff that you'll call ahead and someone will meet you in the foyer and hold DD for a few minutes for you while you observe - usually the staff are very helpful with things like that.
(I remember when my eldest had gotten over chicken pox, but youngest still had it, they were walking her in and out of the centre for me so I didn't have to take infectious junior in!)

[Floweryfields]

It is very normal for children to play on their own during the day - from a carers point of view - as others have said, most children go through stages of not wanting to go to care. We had a child who started at about 2.5 and cried like you wouldn't believe. This little boy cried all day for the first week - he found a spot on the floor and wouldn't move from it, he lay with his blanket and just sobbed. He would go to the toilet if encouraged, but he wouldn't eat all day, until he saw his sister after school in the afternoon, then he would be happy and hoedown the food! It was heart wrenching for everyone involved, the carer was at her wits end to find a solution - but he just needed time.
Week 2 he started to eat, still in his spot on the floor and by the end of the week he was getting up and taking something to play with to his spot.
Week 3 and he was playing in the room, not staying on his spot, still crying when left in the morning, but getting past that very quickly.
This child now is happy and confident, though on the occasion he does have his off morning when he gets teary.

I think what's worth thinking about is even we as adults have days when we'd prefer not to go to work, it's just that we have coping mechanisms in place that children haven't got yet.

If you are really upset by it, perhaps consider waiting till later in the year and trying again - he has another full year before school. I would probably be more consistent next year as he will have to learn that when he is at school, he has to go everyday.

Again from a carers point of view, I've seen these scenarios quite a bit and we are always disappointed and feel like a breakthrough was just around the corner when parents decide to pull their child out of care. BUT it is you choice so do what your heart tells you.

[sneakysparkle]

I haven't read all of the other replies but I thought I'd give you my honest opinion.

If it were me I'd take him out. IMO three year olds need the security of their mum more than they need socialisation. JMO though!

Is there a playgroup you could go to?
All the best with your decision

[Curly]

Hi girls

Just wanted to thank you all for your input.

When I picked up DS last Wednesday he was very happily playing trains with another little boy which was great to see - so that's one worry out of the way, he is actually interacting with the other kids.

So now DH and I have decided to give it till the end of the month and see if the crying in the morning improves. An hour and a half for both mornings is a bit beyond the pale.

DS will say now that he has fun at "school" but he also says he doesn't want to go. So we are still in two minds over whether or not he is really having fun or is just putting up with it.

At the end of the month he will have been going for 8 weeks - is that enough time to assess whether or not this is working out?

[Mak]

My 3.5 year old has had ongoing issues with being left at cc. I found recently that having some play dates at home/park with some of the kids she gets on with has helped heaps also. It is a bit tricky when you first start but perhaps chat to the carers and see if there is someone in particular DS gets along with. I felt so silly but popped a note in the pigeon hole - I may have even found a friend for me too!!! Good luck it is really hard - xxxx

[Mummato2]

I ran FDC for a little while and whilst the example I am going to give you is an extreme boy with a few issues (whereas your little man sounds like a normal 3 year old), the behaviours were the same (not wanting to go, but having fun while there etc)

I took on a 3 1/2 year old boy and his sister who was 2 1/2.

The first month was great until the day came that he had spent the weekend with his grandparents, Monday came along and because he hadn't seen his mum (dad picked him up from Grans and brought him straight to FDC). He screamed the second his father pulled into my street - in fact I could hear him screaming half way up the street while still inside the car.

Dad and son came in, little sister had already settled and found the toys that she was happy to play with - but he just screamed that he didn't want to stay.

I asked Dad to stay for as long as he needed to - 10 minutes later both kids were "settled in".......Dad goes to say goodbye to the kids and son screams to go with him.....this is where I saw red - Dad lets him go with him and keeps the daughter with me.

From that day on, it became a daily battle for him to stay with me in care to the point that he would play until an activity was started that he was less than happy with and would continually scream "mummy, mummy, mummy" until I called his mother.

Now like I said, in this example he had some extreme emotional issues that were compounded by his parents own issues (so this part won't apply to you) however allowing him to call the shots on whether or not he stays created a MAJOR issue moving forward.

FWIW I'm not suggesting you force your son into a situation that he doesn't want to be in - all I am suggesting is before removing him from Care, keep doing what you're doing and talk to the carers, watch from the distance and when you can clearly see he's having fun, when he says at home that he doesn't want to go, gently ask why? It may be just a preference of being with mummy (which is totally understandable) it could be that he doesn't like something there that he hasn't yet told you or it could be that he is just saying that.

As for the hour and a half in the morning of screaming - I can absolutely understand why that would wear thin and be enough to keep him home. To that, I'd suggest trying to calm him down and try asking him what's wrong. See if there is a special toy he'd like to take to show the other kids or ask if he'd like to help you pack his bag with snacks he chooses etc.

Good luck with it all

[Curly]

Mummato2 - that post is scarily relevant!

Today is Fit Kids day - an activity he usually loves. He was all good to go until it was time to leave and then he had a huge meltdown. I bundled him in the car regardless but when we got there he insisted that he hated Fit Kids and carried on like a pork chop, kicking and crying etc.

I was pretty angry with him - I didn't want to give in to him because I know for a fact he enjoys this activity. But I wasn't going to pay $13 for him to cry and sulk and carry on for an hour. I know he didn't get a good sleep last night thanks to DD and from experience I also know he cannot be reasoned with when he is tired. At the same time I couldn't help but see the similarity between this situation and daycare.

So because he refused to go to Fit Kids he doesn't get any TV today and he was going to get a lemonade as a treat today and he doesn't get that either.

That caused another meltdown but I sat quietly with him and asked him if he thought his behaviour was good or naughty. He immediately said that he was naughty. So I have explained that if he was a good boy he would get good things and if he isn't a good boy then he doesn't get good things. That seemed to sink in.

I also explained that he had missed out on a lot of fun which hadn't seemed to have occurred to him. I linked this with school and how Mummy and Daddy take him to things so he can have fun and learn which he also seemed to listen to.

So I've hardened my heart a little bit at the moment!