Explain to me scientifically how rubbing 'Vicks' on feet is actually meant to work??

[Inanna]

It does Nettie just in smaller concentrations...

[stepmum1]

Which are?

Tea tree oil is not recommended for infants. Peppermint and Eucalyptus can be lethal on children and cause breathing issues. There is some concern of lavender and early puberty as well. Camphor has already been mentioned as a concern. I can't remember all of them as I read 3 aromatherapy books before deciding which ones were ok.

Sorry I don't have either the Eucy Bear or Vicks to know what they contain. I know the Baby Balsam changed its formula after I stopped using it. The petrochemicals is why we avoid all of these products.

Great link: Ingredients to Avoid Knowledge Base

[Bathsheba]

I didn't know petrochemicals were banned in the European union... trust Australia to be behind the eight-ball (from the Ingredients Knowledge Base link)

Petrochemicals/ Vaseline / Mineral Oil / Baby Oil / Liquid Paraffin
Petrochemicals are chemical products made from raw materials of petroleum. Petroleum Jelly has been banned in the European Union for it's use in cosmetics since 2005 due to it's carcinogenic properties. Baby Oil is 100% petroleum derived, it is in fact a cheap and nasty petroleum by-product and coats the skin like a piece of plastic literally suffocating the skin. Its used in skin care products because it is an inexpensive oil that lubricates the skin; ideally to moisturize, soften and protect the skin from harsh weather.

[Inanna]

It's pretty awful and confronting hey Bath? I am always surprised at how trusting people are that just cos it's on sale it's safe. Of course one off it probably will do little harm - it's just that these ingredients are in most cheaper cosmetics, detergents, soaps, toothpastes, body lotions, shampoos etc etc etc... :sad:

[Pandora]

So, what's safe to use?

[stepmum1]

Cuddles!!!! A saline spray like fess little noises, homeopathic's, vaporiser without any smelly stuff, manuka honey, probiotics, sodium ascorbate. Are all teh things we use when colds, flus and coughs strike. Lemon and honey and/or ginger tea is ace for sore throats.

[Bathsheba]

I use a lot of Manuka honey: internally and externally... It's a good antiseptic too... Great for wound healing. Expensive but that's usually the way isn't it? That's why cheap things with petrochemicals are so embraced I guess. I find though that if you get back to basics ( by avoiding too much processed foods) that good health follows which is the cheapest outcome of all. Yes good old lemon, garlic and honey are the safest.... And drinking lots of water... Us humans tend to have faith in the more complex solution when in reality keeping it simple is best.

[Willow]

Eucalyptus can be lethal on children and cause breathing issues.

Lethal - really? How is it possible that we have been using eucalyptus in this country as a cold remedy for DECADES, and this is not a known fact? I heard this recently and everyone I have spoken to about it has pretty much replied 'that's BS'. I am not saying they are right, I am just trying to point out that generally, people have no idea about this.

I have used Eucy Bear on my kids as I thought it was a better alternative. We have had zero problems and I am positive it helps relieve their symptoms. I have stopped using eucalyptus in our vapouriser though.

[Inanna]

I think what needs to be remembered is that just because we use something for a long time doesn't mean it hasn't got side affects or issues yk?

I have seen peppermint oil stop a child breathing. I have also seen similar with eucalyptus oil - but used with caution & in the correct context it's safety is managed...

Euky Bear, Vicks etc are all petroleum based. They have some fairly heavy duty chemicals in the ingredients. It will be a personal choice weather you use them or not. Remembering that just because someone uses something without ill effect doesn't mean it's safe. yk? It's like Great Uncle Fred who smoked 2 packs of ciggies, drank a bottle of Johnny Walker & ate dripping sangas every night but lived to 100. We know through education that there are safer ways to live.

Likewise with these types of remedies. They undoubtedly help. If though you are wanting to look for a safer remedy that has less toxicity then avoiding chemicals can be helpful, also choosing a more dilute concentration of essential oils is also helpful. Lavender, Eucalyptus, peppermint, camphor can be toxic, can cause breathing difficulties esp in young children. They can cause miscarriage. It's just something to be aware of. Just because it's "natural" doesn't mean it's safe. It's always good to seek out somebody who is trained in the use of these oils before you use them. Lavender can help with relaxation and headaches - but use it to a more concentrated doseage can cause headache!

[Willow]

I think what needs to be remembered is that just because we use something for a long time doesn't mean it hasn't got side affects or issues yk?...Remembering that just because someone uses something without ill effect doesn't mean it's safe. yk?

I understand that Inanna. And I am not talking about essential oils generally (peppermint etc, I am aware some oils have very nasty side affects) but specifically eucalyptus. If eucalyptus is as 'lethal' for small children as some of these posts suggest, I would have though it'd be a known fact? When a product has been as widely used for as long as eucalyptus has, I would think global, serious affects would be common and known iykwim? I think perhaps it is not 'lethal' to the majority of children, but should be used sparingly and with caution. I will continue to use it for my children when I think it's necessary because *I* think at times the risks outweigh the benefits for the limited times I use it. They would not be exposed to it more than a few times a year, if that, and *my* children have not had any adverse reaction to it's use.

The petrochemicals are a different issue, and one I can't really comment on with much knowledge. Other than to say that it seems to me at times nothing is safe these days. And the products that claim to be 'safe' this week, are suddenly not next week. And even those that are 'safe' generally cost double the price. It all gives me a headache to be honest.

[Inanna]

I guess anything is "lethal" used incorrectly. It's definitely a strong word. Alcohol is lethal used in excess but "safe" at a glass of wine. SLE is "safe" used in shampoo but used throughout the day multiple times probably isn't. So it's all a little bit subjective.

I would agree thuogh that eucalyptus can be lethal. But used correctly based on the advice of an aromatherapist - or someone trained in the use of oils it's safe.

I use eucalyptus on my children. I use it mopping the floor, cleaning the loo seats etc etc. If I was to leave the cloth with undfiluded eucalyptus on it & Immy sniffed it deeply she could stop breathing and it could be "lethal".

Personally I don't use the vicks type stuff because of the chemical ****tail in the carriers. Thats a personal choice & one each Mama makes separately. Either way it's about informed choice. If you don't know about the chemicals in these things then you're not making an informed choice. If you do know and choose to still use it your decision is based on education. YK?

I think it is interesting that many "natural" remedies are looked at as safe. When the reality is many of these things can be very very dangerous used incorrectly. I of course can't speak for Stepmum1 but I gather that this is perhaps what she was getting at?

[Willow]

I guess anything is "lethal" used incorrectly. It's definitely a strong word. Alcohol is lethal used in excess but "safe" at a glass of wine. SLE is "safe" used in shampoo but used throughout the day multiple times probably isn't. So it's all a little bit subjective....If I was to leave the cloth with undfiluded eucalyptus on it & Immy sniffed it deeply she could stop breathing and it could be "lethal".

Absolutely. But my point is that a mother rubbing a small amount of Vicks or Eucy Bear or similar on her child's feet, ie using it for it's intended purpose, is very unlikely to be 'lethal'.

[Inanna]

That I think would be a true statement Willow!

I did a quick google about Camphor as I do know it's been banned in some countries due to it's toxicity...

In larger quantities, it is poisonous when ingested and can cause seizures, confusion, irritability, and neuromuscular hyperactivity. In extreme cases, even topical application of camphor may lead to hepatotoxicity.[13] [14] Lethal doses in adults are in the range 50–500 mg/kg (orally). Generally, 2 g causes serious toxicity and 4 g is potentially lethal.
In 1980, the United States Food and Drug Administration set a limit of 11% allowable camphor in consumer products and totally banned products labeled as camphorated oil, camphor oil, camphor liniment, and camphorated liniment (except "white camphor essential oil", which contains no significant amount of camphor). Since alternative treatments exist, medicinal use of camphor is discouraged by the FDA, except for skin-related uses, such as medicated powders, which contain only small amounts of camphor.

[BellyBelly]

Baby oil is lethal - did you see the stories on the news, I am pretty sure it was J&J baby oil which don't have safety caps on them. Accidents have happened where babies have gotten hold of the bottles and inhaled it - even in small amounts is fatal.

[Inanna]

Below Willow is with regard to Eucalyptus. So you can gather from this that caution is necessary!

If consumed internally at low dosage as a flavouring component or in pharmaceutical products at the recommended rate, cineole based 'oil of eucalyptus' is safe for adults. However, in its pure form it is poisonous according to dosage.
The probable lethal dose of pure eucalyptus oil for an adult is in the range of 0.05 mL to 0.5 mL/per kg of body weight.[17] Because of their low body weight, children are more vulnerable to poisons. Severe poisoning has occurred in children after ingestion of 4 mL to 5 mL of eucalyptus oil.[18][19]

[Willow]

Thank you for posting that. I just checked the label on our Eucy Bear and it does contain camphour. I probably will not be using it again. My DH will not be happy, we just brought a new tube and all three of my kids are sick atm

I will email this information to him though, that may help!

Kelly - I don't have baby oil in my house. I was given bottles of it at DD's baby shower but never used it. What's it supposed to be for anyway?? I never found a use for it.

[Inanna]

Willow I make up my own in a little bottle. Bubba D is a bit little IMO but the others - just pop in to a good quality health food shop that has a naturopath and they will advise you. Have you an oil burner? If so a drop or two of lavender and eucalyptus pure essential oil in the burner helps as well...

Colds can be miserable. I use a lot of chinese remedies and if you have a google of the oil in the post I did a few posts up that is sensational for little ones. There are some really good safer alternatives so that you can still help relieve the symptoms but support optimum health as well. I hope they are feeling better soon. You're a wonderful, thoughtful Mama. xxx

[stepmum1]

Yep that what I meant. I still use eucalyptus for cleaning and keep it right up high in the medical cupboard. I am all for 'natural' remedies, studying naturopathy here, but yes everyone does need to be mindful that even though you can buy them without professional help, care needs to be taken and consultation with a professional should occur if you are unsure of correct dosage of safety especially with children.