Circumcision in Mackay

[CeeCee]

Hello
we had our ds circumcised at his 2 week post-hospital release check with the peadiatrician. He was 4.5 weeks old at that point. He organised the dr to do it. Took 5 minutes, and with just a local (they also gave him some sucrose). He was pale when he returned, but was not crying and took his bottle, and recovered really quickly with no side effects or tears etc. The bill was $375. We do not regret it, and as it was up to dh in the end (who ended up in tears when ds was brought back in...and then I did also...) we talked it through and asked a lot of questions. The midwife and nurses all agreed with us, and we were told that there is a trend back to having it done. However, it seems that the trend relates back to which hospital you go to, and which paediatrician you have and their preferences really. We had made the decision, and stuck to it and so should you. Research, ask questions and ask your dr's and midwife. All the best for the last stage of your pregnancy.
CeeCee

[Just Me]

I think when interpreting statistics, you have to be very careful to read all the information correctly. The Medicare rates do state the national average to be 12% for 2004 but that is using the average collected in each state and averaging it out. States like NT where the circumcision rate is less than 5% (but they also have a lower access to health care services in general) are factored in just as much as states like Queensland where the circumcision rate is 20%. It is also taken from Medicare statistics so does not account for babies that are circumcised where the parents do not claim Medicare rebates.

I don't think that what statistics say is a good enough reason to circumcise or not to circumcise. I think it is a personal choice that each family needs to make for themselves for their own reasons. It is good to be aware of both sides of the argument but ultimately, everyone needs to do what they feel is right.

[tenar]

I don't think that what statistics say is a good enough reason to circumcise or not to circumcise. I think it is a personal choice that each family needs to make for themselves for their own reasons. It is good to be aware of both sides of the argument but ultimately, everyone needs to do what they feel is right.

Agreed it is most definitely, by Australian law, something that parents can choose for their children.

But the statistics are interesting anyway. They suggest that while most men (more than 50%) of the previous generation were circumcised, most men of the next generation (currently boys) are not. This overall trend seems to being slightly reversed in recent years (circumcision rates up by about 10% between 1994 and 2004). Maybe that's due to demographic change? - we have more Muslims in Australia now than 15 years ago, I think.

I personally find it interesting to watch such a large change in something of importance, It makes me wonder why all those parents, who are, like all of us, making the choices they find best for their children, are making that particular choice differently to a generation ago.

So yes, the statistics aren't a good reason to do something one way or another (unless you particularly want your son to blend in or stand out in the locker room, I guess), but they are interesting anyway, because they provide insight into what other parents are thinking.

Personally I always like to have some idea as to whether a choice I make for my family is mainstream or not, and the reasons surrounding that.

[ProudDad]

A few good points there, for sure! I don't think a bloke would sway his way of thinking because of a statistic (or any blokes I know) But yeah it is good to see what other people are thinking.
Bellybelly:- yeah I think it would be a good idea to run a poll, even if it gives an idea of the demographic that uses this site
I fully agree, it comes down to personal choice and at the end of the day it might be a little desicion on such a big journey. Thanks again for the input everyone, its really helpful and as I said before, its great to see how other people feel. cheers

[CrazyLady]

A Friend's son was circumcised for medical reasons, had an infection because his foreskin was too tight and cutting into his errrrr willy.

Because was a medical reason it was free.

[expat]

WARNING!!! The next few paragraphs will let you clearly see that I'm pro-skin!! I'm not here to offend anyone, just to argue for the sake of logic as I see it. Feel free to refute anything I say if fact backs your argument.


Being circumcised made sense back in the day the Jews lived in the desert and didn't have access to water and soap...back in those times hygiene had a totally different meaning too! In today's modern age with soap and water and if in the tiny chance that a boy does get an infection, there are always antibiotics to fall back on.

I can't remember the stats exactly and I wouldn't want to just pull them out of thin air but I recall reading the incidence of a circumcision going wrong vs. an as-nature-made-him boy getting an infection of the foreskin being ridiculously out of whack with your chance of having the procedure go wrong being way higher.

I was a nanny and a preschool teacher for years and have seen plenty of little boys willies (!) and I'd say perhaps 10% (never kept an exact tally, sorry) of the circumcised boys were not 100% right looking. One boy I nannied for looked like a frilled neck lizard as too much skin had been taken off the top and not enough off the sides. When his younger brother was born, his parents decided to leave him as is after his big brother suffered that unfortunate result. Another little boy I looked after had to be 're-done' as he had a scar response and developed keloid scarring at the wound site. I had a boyfriend years ago who had a pitted and bumpy looking side to his glans and told me it was because he was botched up during circumcision.

My hubby is Danish and had never seen a real life circumcised penis until a couple of years ago when we moved out of Scandinavia. There, there weren't so many Jews or Muslims (he grew up in the country) and it's just not part of the culture.

The origins of non-religious circumcision are based on in Victorian England where it was decided that a little boy/teenager/man would not play with himself so much if the foreskin was removed as there was evidence that a constantly exposed glans was less fun to play with as it was less sensitive! This was promoted as being more 'Godly' and as no one would want their little boys to be sinners, they lopped off their skins to make their sons less likely to sin. It trickled down through a few generations and within a few, had become the norm.

To argue the 'locker room' argument doesn't work any more as my cousin (who is a pediatric nurse in Melbourne) says that prob less than a fifth of the boys she sees are chopped. To argue the hygiene/medical line doesn't work for the reasons of soap and water I stated above and if you were to say that boys should be done to reduce the chance of future health problems would mean you should also believe that all babies should also have tonsillectomies and appendectomies at birth 'just in case' they get tonsillitis or appendicitis (a much greater risk) later in life. To argue that 'it looks better' is a vanity reason and equates to ear piercing on newborns (which is at least reversible if the kid doesn't like it). Perhaps it's more like the archaic and in most places, banned practices of extreme corseting and Chinese foot binding.

The foreskin is attached to the glans for the 1st couple of years. An infant circumcision involves removing the skin from the underlying flesh to which it is connected. You could probably google or youtube a few vids of the procedure. If you are too squeamish to watch them then perhaps you'll also think about going through with this procedure on your son. Some people say that their babies cried for 5 seconds and then went to sleep or into a trance. This is because that is a self defense mechanism that newborns use is response to shock or pain.

Of course it's a personal decision, but it's a decision which is not reversible and which you are deciding for another person. Would it hurt to let him decide for himself in a few years time?

[expat]

If you can watch to the end of this vid (with volume)...you're stronger than I am.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQqOEylGW7k

...made me cry.






just found this news article which is informative and unemotional...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncFnxjad-z8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncFnxjad-z8

[mrsmac]

My DH was in the army so therefore actually spent time "out bush" without water etc and he saw the infections uncircs can get , XH was a submariner- same thing, its all very well to quote the fact that we all have access to good hygiene BUt there are still situations where we don't.

Anyway I am not getting into another circ fight just adding to my 2c to the PP.

[tenar]

I have read that the risk of infection is higher in girls than in boys, whether circumcised or not. But nobody worries about girls getting infections, and we certainly don't change our bodies to reduce the chances.

Can't think of another body part that someone would cut off because someone else got it infected... We'd be without most of our bodies if we actually did that!

[Inanna]

Proud Dad good on you for joining BB and broaching this... I am curious though that you seem not to be "up" with stats, side effects etc but you are choosing to circumcise your son. Is it okay with you to let us know why? As Belly Belly said a poll on BB is likely to reflect the ethos of the site being a gentle parenting site.

I have only 1 son and circumcision just wasn't ever going to hapen with him. His father is also uncircumcised - very forward thinking of his Mama in 1966 when "most" boys were circumcised as it was "the done thing"... She chose not to circumcise as my son's fathers cousin was left disfigured from the procedure and another cousin died as he was an undiagnosed haemophillia sufferer... It was all tragic so that is why he is not circumcised. He has been insituations for long stretches where he could not wash properly (he is the GM of a seafood company and every few years goes out on boats for a few weeks at a stretch where obviously washing isn't easy!) he has never had an infection.

It is interesting to consider that girls get UTI's more commonly than circumcised boys but we don't (in this country) circumcise girls...

I think before you remove any bits from your own body or your child's its important to have a full education about it.

I understand that some people choose to remove their sons foreskins due to religious reasons - obviously that is different as it is a deeply felt belief that it is spiritually correct.

I just urge you to make a fully informed decision on this. I too have seen lots of little penis's (I am a nurse and mother of 5 so lots of little people around me) and overwhelmingly most boys are intact these days. When I read the facts, stats etc I cannot find any medical reason for circumcision - it would seem that the majority of circumcisions are done for social reasons. (ie: son to have no foreskin cos his Dad doesn't have on etc etc)

Please know I understand the deeply felt belief of some religions - my challenge to education is to those that are circumcising due to reasons other than spiritual ones.

[ProudDad]

WHOA... Hold up, hang on and wait a miniute...! I didn't want a fight about this, i simply wanted to know the cost and possibly if there was anyone else in qld who has had it done- because each state differs from one and other.

I didn't realise everyone has an opinion on this topic- guys really don't care about it... your either a beany or a helmet- simple as that and it doesn't go any further!
As for the norm, I think it comes down to family and choice. I don't really know about statistics, but in the group of mates i have (8 or so)- a rare few are actually not done and i remember growing up these boys always had problems and infections. Personally- I'm for it, for a million reasons, none of which will matter to anyone else but me. My missus is netural on the topic and is happy either way.
Its crazy, since posting on here and raising the topic with other people- I've heard stories on the for and against (some of which are a little suspect). One lady who works in childcare, has informed me about a number of boys who have had to have it done at 8, 9, and 10 yrs old- and that is becomes a full surgery process (general and days to recover) and not to mention costs a mint! I realise this is a small number of people, so don't bite my head off- i know this isn't everyone..! But it is good to keep in mind. As for gettting

"tonsillectomies and appendectomies at birth 'just in case'"

come one, is this nessesary? please... we are talking about a little bit of skin ffs! Thats all i got to say about this for now.. take it with a grain of salt, up to you. cheers

[Inanna]

I don't think anyone wants to fight about it. But everyone will have an opinion and some will be different and possibly challenge.

There are support groups of men set up as some adult men see that their parents decision to remove their foreskin equates to mutilation. So, whilst the blokes you know don't feel this way - there are other men that see it quite differently. Especially when the procedure has left them disfigured or with reduced sexual function...

It's true that less than 1 percent of male children will require a medical circumcision - and yes it is a painful procedfure that most often requires a GA. Also there are children (greater than 1 percent) that will require a toncillectomy but we don't remove that organ at birth. kwim?

It may be a piece of skin - but it was a piece of skin with a perfect design. It is painful to have it removed and I personally have refused to assist in the procedure in the bad old days... It isn't nice. So, it's something that you must decide to do with the full knowledge that a foreskin performs a role, it's part of your baby boys anatomy just like his other bits AND for some males the thought of someone coming along and chopping it off is rather disconcerting.

My labia doesn't do too much that I am conscious of, but I like it just where it is!!!

It's all food for thought - and of course you will make the decision that you feel is right for your baby. But it is a topic that is emotive and passionate for many who see it as part of the baby's body and not superfluous - therefore it is seen by some as the right of the child to remain intact. Good luck with your decision and congratulations on the upcoming birth of your precious boy.