which formula for reflux?

[mrscricket]

hi girls -
i took my six wk old son to the dr's today and he diagnosed reflux. Symptoms have been vomiting, crying, not sleeping for longer than 20 mins unless being held, 'snuffly' nose, constant hiccups etc. He suggested that i try thickened formula for 2 days and come back if no improvement. (I am currently breastfeeding and then giving supplement bottles using the Karicare infant formula).
I went to the chemist and they sold me the Karicare "Food thickener" to add to my exsisting formula. Has anyone used this? Should i go back and get the Karicare formula instead - is this the AR brand? Sorry i sound so vague - my brain is overloaded
trying to figure out whats best for DS.
Thanks in advance - Em

[scarlet121]

It depends on a lot of things, since a lot of refluxers also tend to have problems with digesting whole milk the thickened formula could be a bit much. WIth the thickening there are a couple of ways to go, but a hypoallergenic formula is a really good start, the proteins are more broken down and are easier to digest like your breast milk.

You can add the karicare thickener to that and it should be fine, there are anti reflux formulas which are thicker which tends to settle the milk somewhat, but like I said you may find that going on a full milk based formula and not hypoallergenic may make it worse.

There is a product that you can get at the pharmacy called infant gaviscon and this works in a similar way to an antacid, but it also has a thickener added, so you can administer this just before you breastfeed and it can do the same thing, or you could add this direct to the formula and it will thicken it, like the Karicare but also has the antacid proertiees.

Just remember with thickened formula you may need to blend it to get it smooth and also new nipples on the bottle will be needed. You can get Y cut ones that allow cereal to go through, or if they flow is too fast you may just want to open the holes a little more with a needle on the one you have.

Good luck, let us know how you get on.

[mrscricket]

Caro - I have been supplement feeding my son as he is a super slow feeder. By the time he finished one feed, he was ready for another. He was frustated with me and i was too. Once i started supplementing, both of us seemed to be able to relax more - and i banished all thoughts of giving up BF altogether.

Thankyou Scarlett for your reply. I looked at the gaviscon but wasn't sure, so i think i might try that instead. I also think i will try to get an app with the maternal child & Health nurse, as she may have more of a clue than the dr!

[widdly]

hi Em, im sorry you have a little refluxer on your hands. i stopped bfing my DS refluxer at 5 weeks cause he connstantly chucked and fed and i couldn't cope with the exhaustion all the time and had no support for bfing, in hindsight i really regret stopping bf but i also know that if i was put back in that same situation i would do the same thing over again. i agre that getting all the info and support you can from ABA is the best idea, i put DS on S26 AR formula and found that it was fantastic.

i really hope your little girl grows out of reflux quickly and that you can find a feeding solution to make you both happy and more relaxed. Big hugs, reflux isn't nice, but they eventually grow out of it, just keep reminding yourself of this!

[nikbrad]

Both my kids have been on the Karicare HA-AR formula. Boston's reflux is worse than Mackenzie's was and it has definatley helped both of them keep most of their feeds down. I did need to make the hole in the teats bigger as it is harder for them to get out and did this with a needle heated over the hot plates. If you do this it is a long process, if you make the hole too big and they will get it too quick and vomit so do it slowly and see how they go, I've always found that it is a few feeds process ie - give it a go with their next feed and if the hole isn't big enough then put the needle in again etc etc. The HA-AR is for allergy and reguration (sic) babies. Although neither of my kids have shown signs of allergies I have ecezma and my DH has asthma so I have chosen this formula because of the likelihood they will have it too. I did look at getting the thickner on it's own to add to the formula we were using at the time but thought it would be easier to just buy the 'pre-mixed' formula. Good luck, I will keep an eye on your thread to see if I can answer any other questions if you should have them.

[scarlet121]

You may find that half of the problem with his feeding is because of the reflux, you could try positioning him in a more upright position if possible, breastfeeding a refluxer can be a great big pain, but it is possible.

I topped up both my boys with formula from birth, I just did not have enough milk, I know cliche, but it took me longer, I kept on pumping if I would give a bottle, and by three months with both boys I was fully breastfeeding. I am a BF advocate, but I can tell you that if Parker (my refluxer) was my first baby, and I didn't have the hang of it from number one, I wouldn't have succeeded with it.

It is possible to do both.

[LuluHB]

Em - give soy formula a try for your top up feeds. Reflux babies are sometimes aggravated by the dairy in normal formulas.

[scarlet121]

I wouldn't recommend soy, they proteins are of similar size to normal cows milk formula and tend to give the same problems. If you are talking about getting the food to digest quicker, then the hypoallergenic is the way to go.

[srv]

Stephen has reflux and we use karicare thickener with his s26 gold. We tried AR and HA formulas but he didn't like them - He's just a bit fussy. You can also use the thickener before breast feeds..there are instructions on the can on how to use it if you're breast feeding. We were using EBM early on and we added the thickener to that. He's also on losec.

[LuluHB]

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. My baby is on soy. She has no troubles on it whatsoever. We tried AR formulas and HR formulas and they all aggravated her reflux more than breast milk did. A lot of the time reflux is aggravated by either dairy, wheat or both, which is the reason why the soy works for some.

Plus, and this is something that is really getting my goat, does anyone really think that if there was valid research stating that something was harmful to a child, that a company would sell it in a country such as ours. On top of that, do you really think that doctors would support a decision to feed a baby soy formula if they knew it was doing damage. You just can't be serious.

Quite frankly, I am sick and tired of women who say that breast feeding is the only way to go thinking that they have a right to tell any woman who chooses for whatever reason (and I don't care if its a medical reason or because the mother simply doesn't want to breastfeed) that she is doing the wrong thing and then compounding the insult even further by implying that she is feeding her child a dangerous substance. It is truly offensive. People should understand that each baby is an individual just like adults and accordingly they all respond differently to things like adults do. There is no single hard and fast answer that is "best for everyone". I did and do believe that breast milk is best in MOST situations but its not best for every child. Its not best for mine. I, however, get on with looking after my DD to the best of MY ability and don't tell other mothers that they are doing the wrong thing. This is despite the fact that, after seeing the results with my child, I truly believe that if some of those reflux babies out there whose mothers are persisting with breastfeeding stopped pumping them full of drugs and ignoring their pained cries and simply switched them to formula, they would be happy, pain-free children and after all, isn't that far more important than being able to say "but I breastfed my baby until X years".

The purpose of this forum is to provide support to other women, not get on a moral high horse at every opportunity if you do not agree with the way we each choose to parent our children. I think we're a pretty sad lot when it seems we can't actually sit back and say "Oh, that's what she tried and it works for her, maybe its worth a shot", rather than say "Oh no, you're wrong", simply because either it didn't work for you, or because you disagree with it. I was prepared to try anything given how much pain my daughter was in, and I will not sit back and be criticised for doing something that has helped my daughter be happy, healthy and pain free.

Em, whatever you decide on feeding your child I wish you a happy, healthy bub

[christy]

Okay lets get back to what the OP asked... she's confused about reflux and information given to her, we don't need to debate the benefits of soy vs cow vs anything.

One of my daughters is allergic to soy and cows milk and the other one is just allergic to cows milk.

Reflux can be linked (not directly in every case) to a cows milk allergy or food intolerances in general.

If you are breastfeeding & enjoying it, keep going. Well done. If you are having problems with supply and struggling through it, then you have a few choices.

1. pump extra to increase your supply so you won't have to supplement if you don't want to.
2. you can add thickener to your EBM you've gotten from pumping to increase supply
3. you can use formula, there are heaps out there. AR is thickened, HA is easier to digest formula. So some children are better on the HA Ar, some are on just AR some are on HA. Just depends on what works for them.
4. If you want to go to formula, trial one for a month and see if it works for your child. Jovie reacted to allergies via ezcema and reflux. Matilda just reflux.

Good luck & trust your instincts & what you want to do. *hugs*

[Mikenzees mum]

I'm sorry to here your baby is suffering, as for your question as to which formula, i would suggest asking the pead for a prescription for neocate it is a hypoallergenic formula, and is completely different to the HA formulas that they sell in shops it has no dairy or soy protein in it and is broken down to help with digestion.

Soy formula yes does help with some probably allot of babies but as scarlet mentioned the protein molecules in it are as hard to break down as the ones in dairy and goats formula there for allot of babies with reflux and protein intolerance have trouble with them

I'm glad you bub is doing well on soy Lulu thats great

[scarlet121]

Caro not true, a GP can give neocate, on a 6 week trial, you pick it up like a script from the pharmacy, if the child does well on it, they will be recommended to a paed who can script further repeats. THey do it this way because of the cost to the government.

Lulu HB, I know we have been told to stay on topic, but everyone else has had their say, and I think it important to note that it is great that soy has worked for you. I am a reflux advocate on another site and have had this situation in many cases and while some do do better on soy it is not the norm, and if I had the choice I would try hypoallergenic first, with the thickener, give it at least two weeks and then switch to another formuala.

I don't know if you were talking about me, but this is in no way going against your decision to not breastfeed but breast milk is best for babies with reflux, it is the most broken down and easy to digest, if something is easy to digest it won't stay as long in the stomach thus less chance of them vomiting and also less chance of it staying around to reflux on. I don't know if you read but Mrsdaisy breastfeeds and wants to, she is talking about the top ups and this should be supported.

Also the first thing before medicating I suggest is to change formula, or take dairy and soy out of your diet. I also recommend to prop the bed, swaddle, give them a dummy, hold upright for as long as possible, smaller more frequent meals, thickening.

But if all this does not work, then medication is warrented, a lot of people don't understand just how serious reflux can be, on this thread along, we have three long term refluxers, I know that Miki had had to have anti reflux surgery, which is not as easy as it sounds, as she gags a lot and gets that sensation but does not vomit, she is FTT, she has other delays, all caused by not eating in relation to the reflux. Parker is not as severe as Miki, but he is three, which gets him into the never to outgrow this category, whcih means that he will have to be on medication for the rest of his life or get the anti reflux surgery.

If I do not 'pump him full of medications' he gets severe oesophagous inflammation, wont eat, will become failure to thrive again (and likely tube fed the next time) he will aspirate into his lungs and cause more pneumonias and also he would start getting ear infections again that caused him to be deaf for 6 months and we did not know if he would get his hearing back.

Again I am extremely happy that the answer to you guys is soy formula, but don't you think if it was that easy for everyone then we would all do it? Reflux is very complicated and very varied, and we need to support one anothers decions that they make as well as be open to trying other things.

I will also add that I am a qualified chemist and I know that drugs are not exactly the best thing for my child, but they are better than the alternative. With the soy milk, Caro does have valid points and if it came to me and soy was the only thing to help, I would use it, with reflux you do what you have to do, but I have tried it with Parker and it did not work, not only did he get covered in eczema, he also became very constipated.

[christy]

I too got neocate through a script through my GP. I have had 6 months worth, but we only use 1 tin a fortnight due to it only being an alternative to breastmilk in our house. We had to buy it in lots of 8 tins so we have enough to get us to 12 months and then we will just give water and breastmilk.

[Mikenzees mum]

Mikenzees Mum they will ONLY give Neocate if you have gone through extensive testing for intolerance/allergy to milk protein

How is Mikenzee doing ? you've not been around much hope you are well ?

Mikenzee was perscribed her neocate oringanaly from the pead but he did not do any testing forst because she was to ill to and we didnt have time to mess about with all that, she had her repeat scirpts through the GP as well they just have t call the authoruty scrippt oraganisation for a number its really simple

Also often protein intolerance does not show up in any alergy testing, when the reactuion is isolated to the GI system, like with my DD she is cleary intoerant to protein in all foods not just dairy and soy (everything) but her skin test was negative, but the fact that she poos and pukes blood and mucus is proof enough for her drs

I hacent been on much lately i know we have a lot going on with miki but she is getting there