Crying while falling asleep

[chant]

Hi,

I'll try to be short! This is my 3rd bub. First two were rocked/fed/lain down with to sleep for the first 3 years or so of their lives each. Neither have ever been left to cry (OK I did try once or twice but they just got totally distressed )

Up until recently Rachel, my third, who is now 13 weeks old, wouldn't sleep unless in my arms/sling/lying next to me in my bed. Over time I have managed to transfer her to her bassinet once asleep and she stays asleep. Took a lot of effort a la Elizabeth Pantley. Whoo hoo.

About 5 days ago I had to use the bathroom (a longer visit TMI) during the rock to sleep routine. I put her in her bassinet swaddled and with womb music playing as usual, but awake. By the time I came out of the bathroom she had stopped crying and had fallen asleep!

I have continued to experiment with this during the day (at night we co-sleep). She is falling asleep and also staying asleep instead of needing to be re-settled. As she is a baby who needs a *lot* of sleep (cannot be awake for more than an hour before getting grumpy, likes to sleep 3 hours in the morning) this is wonderful. But she does cry every time I leave her.

It feels so hard to judge if she is just whinging and will drop off after 2 to 5 minutes (as has happened a number of times) or if she is getting distressed. This is because she tends to cry a bit, stop crying for a while and then start again. I really don't want to do controlled crying with her. On the other hand I have heard that some babies do have a whinge as they fall asleep and this is normal. She has also started to whinge when falling asleep in my arms, and cannot seem to fall asleep at the breast as easily as she did in the past.

Any thoughts? I am looking for reassurance!

Shira
DS 00
DD 02
DD 27-07-06

[beckles]

chant letting her cry is probably not a gentle solution, she may be stopping to listen if you will answer her call for you and then fall asleep because she is giving up trying maybe. i think you will find that the gentle parenting theorists would not advocate 'they whinge a little before they fall asleep'.

have you tried patting her bottom gently whilst you are breastfeeding her off to sleep, i found my youngest needed this to keep him sleepy. he now has no probs falling asleep on the breast still.

good luck with your decision
beckles

[Ozziehoffy]

Joshua used to have a grizzle sometimes, but you could certainly tell the difference between this and him getting upset and wanting me to pick him up for a cuddle or whatever. If it was just a grizzle I used to leave him, but if he was really "crying" I'd go to him.

[shellbell3]

Assess the type of crying, if she has a cry thats just a few seconds then stops for seconds I wouldn't rush in but if she gets continual crying or that upset crying then i'd go in and try to settle again.

[Rouge]

Just a gentle reminder that this is a Gentle Parenting forum for Comforted Sleep. If you would like advice regarding Crying It Out or Controlled Crying I am happy to move it to the Baby & Toddler Discussion Forum. If you would like to recieve advice from other parents who have chosen the Comforted Sleep path feel free to continue posting here!

Thanks!

*hugs*
Cailin

[BellyBelly]

Learning your baby's sleep cues is so important as well as judging her cries. I think most mums can tell a whinge from a distressed cry, but if you are not sure, perhaps you need to do some learning into it. I can highly recommend Pinky McKay's new book, 'Sleeping Like a Baby' which is full of scientific research, real parents stories and a very interesting chapter on 'The Con of Controlled Crying.' I am sure you will find it very eye opening, as well as get many great ideas on how you can settle your baby the easy way, without tears. She also has 100 Ways to Calm the Crying which is great, and if you can grab a copy of 'The Wonder Weeks' it's brilliant.

Also following on with what Cailin said, can everyone please read the sleep forum guidelines before posting HERE.

[Fi]

We cuddled to sleep (and still do) and like you I found that regardless of whether she is cuddled or not, she still cried alot. It was different though cause I had her in my arms, and knew I was doing everything I could to help her. What more can I do than make sure she is warm, fed, clean and cuddled??
It took along time to start feeling comfortable putting her down awake and letting her go to sleep. We had many nights when after we put her down, she would cry, so we would go in and cuddle her til she fell asleep, then try and transfer her to the cot/bassinette, when she would wake again, start crying and the cycle would continue.
We didn't actually start the "interpretation of cries" until she was about 6m old at least. Until then she slept in our room and would be pretty much seen to straight away.
12w is pretty young to try and figure out exactly what they need, and while I understand you have lots of experience with older kids, maybe there isn't a problem cuddling to sleep for a little longer?
I also fed to sleep for a long long time - I'm thinking 4-8m at least?

I think at the end of the day you have to do what feels right for you - Somedays (depending on my mood and little misses) I have to leave her to grizzle in her cot, and she will go to sleep eventually, but if she is distressed now I know cause she starts up with the "daddy, daddy, daddys", and I have to go in and settle her, get her up or bring her back to bed.

Its so hard isn't it?? What is in your heart? That should be the basis for your decision.

[BellyBelly]

I do think there is a distinct difference between a distressed cry and a whinge though (plenty of examples at the Expo last weekend!!!), remembering that when a baby does cry, it's past what it was asking for and you've missed the signal, which is why I think knowing cues is important, to prevent the distressed cry which says 'I am over it' / 'I have had enough' and yes sometimes they just need to tell their story to you in your arms and cry to sleep and some babies need to be down to sleep - all different but often nothing can make a difference like Fi said, so do what makes you feel good in your heart. They say you can't spoil a baby under 6 months - I think you can't spoil a baby ever

[chant]

Thanks everyone for your input. As I said in my original post, I really don't want to do CC/CIO. I am wanting gentle parenting input and support. I guess what I am trying to figure out is whether I feel it is OK to put a baby down awake! Neither of my other kids would ever have gone to sleep by themselves, but Rachel does seem able to, it's just that she cries a little before she nods off. I am so not used to letting my kids cry that any cry distresses me.

I feel ambivalent because on the one hand I don't want her to cry at all. On the other hand it would be really helpful to me if I was able to put her down awake because ... I have two other kids to take care of and it is wrenching to hear them need me whilst I am in another room helping Rachel to fall asleep (she is way too interested in them to sleep if they are in the room) and because I have a bad back which has totally frozen on me a few times since Rachel was born, leaving me incapacitated, and is sore a lot of the time so extended sling wearing is hard. Additionally, when she feeds to sleep it tends to give her a sore tummy.

Anyhow, it seems to be an emerging pattern that she is happy to go to sleep by herself for her morning sleep but the rest of the time it's business as usual (feed/cuddle to sleep or co-sleep).

[Rouge]

Well I think its fine to put a baby down awake! Both my kids wouldn't have it any other way. and if I tried to co-sleep or rock them to sleep it would take twice as long. My now 7 nearly 8 mth old will only go to sleep on his own. We've recently stopped swaddling and gone to a sleeping bag and he has adjusted well to the new change. I actually find he goes to sleep better than he did when swaddled it was just a matter of him adjusting. Follow your heart and do what you feel is right for you and your baby. No two kids will sleep the same

Goodluck!

*hugs*
Cailin

[Tracey]

No two kids will sleep the same

Cailin you knocked the nail on the haed here!!!!
Maddy used to go into her cot & sleep, Indah will play, grizzle, get back up, fall asleep in my arms, be put in cot & wake just as I am about to close the door, get back up again.....

I had an argument with my Mum this morning about Indah being spoilt (as she slept all night no issues, prior to being sick for the last 2 wks) & now needs help to get to sleep & started waking again....

I told Mum to sod off (in much worse words)....

[Fi]

Dare I mention her name BUT the only thing I really paid any attention to Tizzie Hall was when she said - put the baby down awake, go and make a cup of tea and when you come back the baby will possibly be asleep.
Its worked a number of times for me!!
Of course there have also been a number of cold cups of tea poured down the sink, but when it did work, God - it felt soooo much better than patting/cuddling to sleep. Sometimes mummy's mental health (and physcial health) is a very important consdieration too.
I'm hoping my next baby will be different! I'm hoping he or she will sleep and not spew!! LMAO.

[amandadaze]

Please dont pay any attention to anything Tizzie Hall says - she doesn't know what she's talking about. Ugh!