Our Journey - Establishing a night time ritual

[Astrid]

I am continuing, just going to tweek what I am doing at night. I think rather than keep her in the bedroom the whole time, I will bring her out after gettting her dresses and offering her a BF. We will just keep things quiet for her and when she looks relaxed I will take her back to the bedroom.

Sherie - I have wished for the day that I will find her asleep on the floor. At times she does seem close, she will lay down for a few seconds, then suddenly wake and crawl off. Maybe one day she will get the hang of it.

I am not going to give up, I just need to find a way that suits all of us. Not sure how it will go tonight, she only had a 20 minute nap at midday and I only got her down for another nap just before 5.

Thanks for all the advice and support so far, I really do appreciate it.

[Astrid]

Don't know if full detail is required tonight. Basically I tried to be a lot calmer about it all. I took my time to dress her, as she crawled around and played, I would sneak a sleeve or a leg onto her. If she wanted to look at something I let her, I only grabbed her back if I felt she was about to crawl off the bed.

Tried to take her into the lounge early on, that was a mistake DH kept the TV on and started to channel surf (I hate channel surfing :fuming: ). So I took her back to the bedroom. She played on the cot for awhile, then got crabby. I tried to jiggle her etc. DH came in at 8.00 and took her back to the lounge as she was getting cranky. This time the room was darker and we found she would sit quietly for him, so long as I stayed out of sight. Saw her eagerly drinking water from her sippy cup, so I gathered she might like another BF, so I took her back to the bedroom.

Managed to feed her to sleep, it took awhile and I tried to be as patient as possible. Made sure she was really asleep before transferring her to the cot.

Notes: I think being more calm and patient with the dressing routine helped, it kind of kept her calmer. Still unsure of DH's role in all of this, I don't want him to be viewed as the "rescuer" from the evil mummy who is forcing her to sleep, but I can see that happening.
Maggie seems to want to drink a lot at night, I would like her to eat more solids during the day, but she is not that interested.

[sherrie]

Astrid my daughter is 10.5 months old. She had BF every 2 hours from day one, there was a couple of weeks where she started to wind down to a point of even having a 9hr sleep once but when she hit her growth spurt at around 2.5 months that was the end of it. Since then she has not looked back, sometimes some of her feeds start to slow down but almost straight away she starts teething or hits a milestone.

Anyway because of this she is a very wakeful baby since birth, as a newborn I had alot of trouble even getting her to sleep during the day, she always fights it, still does, I was never able to put her down, some days even now shes like that!
I figure being an alert baby is not a bad thing we should fight, its just their survival instincts they were born with. I read some articles on high needs babies by Dr Sears which I thought were good.

Where I am going with this is I never could get her to go to sleep in it and if I left her there and tried to pat/shhhh her even for just a minute she would get upset to the point of vomiting. I came to the conclusion she is just a very sensitive girl who likes my company.
During the day I always put her to sleep beside me in the rocker or if that doesn't work in the pram. Sometimes she still fights it and if she falls asleep during a feed on those days I let her sleep in my arms for a couple of hours to make sure she has her day sleep.
At night I would try to put her down asleep in her cot for her first sleep (which often didn't work) and after that I co-slept, it was the only way I could cope with the 2 hour feeds otherwise I have to stay awake untill shes in deep sleep before I transfer her in the cot so I end up only getting an hours sleep at a time and run the risk of waking up too much and not being able to fall back to sleep. Plus that is provided she doesn't wake when I put her in

Once she started crawling, so I could keep co-sleeping I took her cot out of my room and put a mattress on the floor besides my bed (I miss my comfy bed dearly!)which bubs and I sleep on.

Anyway I'm getting right off the track here arn't I?

My daughter can really fight sleep when she wants to no matter how tired she is, but I found a way to get her down at night. What I do is bring her in the bedroom, have a play as she really likes to have a play on the mattress then I tell her its time for bed put her in her sleeping bag which sometimes she will whinge at especially if we don't have a play first. Then, say night, night and I turn the lights off so it is dark and feed her on the mattress, 99.9% she falls asleep and then I just wait for her to get into a deeper sleep before I get up and walk out. If she doesn't go to sleep its usually because the other half is too noisy watching TV or something and she is listening to it. I also find say there is a full moon and the room is light I may have a little trouble.

Shes the same as yours with the solids and is only just starting to eat more then a taste now, shes tall and chubby too but she was a big baby right from the start (9lb 7.5oz)shes just starting to walk now so hopefully things will settle soon.

Anyway it might seem a bit unorthodox and I guess it is in comparison to the western parts of the world today but otherwise the more I think about it the more I think shes pretty normal just a bit more vocal with communicating her needs/wants, but for survival in some parts of the world still today that is necessary...

Good luck

[Astrid]

Sherrie - thanks for your post. Your daughter sounds so much like mine. My DD is an active and alert, but at the same time loves being close. Nearly all her day naps are in the lounge room (on or beside me, in her chair or pram). I understand about the co-sleeping, it is the only way we can make it through the night, plus it is a really nice thing to do.

It is nice to know that we are not alone. It would break my heart if I was ever to cc her, to me it would be killing her spirit.

[Astrid]

Well, yesterday was a bit of a mess. Maggie woke at 6am! Not her usual 7.30 (give or take). Got her back to sleep by 7am and we slept til 8.30am. So her whole day was out of wack. Her morning nap went fine, but then for her afternoon nap, she went to sleep at 5.00 and stayed asleep till after 7pm!

So all I could do was give her dinner, which she ate a heap, I even had to top her up with yoghurt. Missed the shower as she had had a bath earlier to try and clear up her nappy rash. I took her to bed, she fed her self to sleep, but then wouldn't move to the cot. I was desperate for a drink, so I had to bring her to the lounge with me and she woke. Got her back to bed as soon as I had my drink.

Not a good night, but I decided not to stress about. I do notice it affects her mornings though. She is very restless in bed for about an hour before waking, when I was doing the sleeps cues she woke much better.

Oh well, back to it tonight.

[sherrie]

Your welcome, some of your posts seemed so familiar I thought I'd let you know your not alone.

It would break my heart to CC her too. The one time everyones comments got to me so much I tried to put her down in the cot awake, after not even 1 minute of patting and shhhing she was so upset I took her out and she vomited everywhere, I felt so bad it must have been really stressful for her.

I vowed then and there that they can all take a hike with this teaching them bad habits balony and decided to continue to let her lead the way its not like it will last forever, they are only babies for such a short time.

I find now with Maya if I let her have her sleep at 5 then the whole evening is messed up and she won't go to sleep untill late.

[Astrid]

Thanks for your reply Sherrie.

I was at a friends house the other day, and they had recently gone to Tweedle with their 4 month old. In the middle of the party plan showing she was going she sent her DH into the bedroom to pat/shush their baby. It was so awful to listen to, I had to really control myself not to yell at the mother and to try not to go in and rescue that poor baby. I suppose though it is their choice, but I could tell the father did not have the heart to do it properly. My DH was talking to him after it, apparently he is just following his wife and has not questioned her choice, whereas DH will question me. Apparently she went to Tweedle because her baby was having "tantrums" and she does not want the pattern to continue. I tried to calmly tell her that imo it is not a tantrum, it is just her baby trying to communicate. Anyway she doesn't agree as she is a teacher (high school) and knows better. (no offense to other teachers, this is just what she is like).

Anyway I suppose what I am trying to get at, is that seeing that made me feel that what I am trying to do is right for us. It still does not stop me from feeling so sad for that little baby.

[Astrid]

Well, I don't know if I am going to jinx it, but she went down quite easily tonight (well for her anyway).

The order was a little mixed up, as she had her shower early as she crawled in whilst I was having mine. She had a very good midday sleep and only a short afternoon nap, so she was tired by dinner.

6.00 Dinner - DH fed her, which was nice for once
6.15 Play whilst I got the bedroom ready
6.30 Get changed, nappy, read story with Peace Baby playing, bit of play
7.00 Change music to Robert Miles - this seems to tell her that I am serious about sleep. Get teddy and role play with teddy about feeding and then sleeping. Bf lying down with teddy close. To really get the sleep message across I stand up and pat/bounce her in my "sleep hold", she gets whingy, so I lay back down to feed and she goes to sleep! Stay with her, then move her to cot with teddy.
7.30 Time for cuppa \/
8.10 Went to bedroom and watched, she woke and looked close to resettling, but did not. Picked her up before she got too upset and fed her back to sleep on the bed. Transferred her back to the cot.
As of typing this, she is still asleep :sleeping:

Notes: Her cot mattress is much harder than ours (even though ours is brand new and quite firm) I padded it with blankets to soften, but not too soft IYKWIM, laid down my t shirt from the day and placed her on that

Feeling much better, I think she is getting the idea. Not fussed about the waking after 40 minutes, I assume that will improve with time.

[Trillian]

Yay Astrid! Sounds like you had a 'win' last night. As you go along it will get easier and as she gets older her habits will change too. i hope this is that start of good things to come.

I think with the matress though, they just don't have enough weight to soften it a bit IYKWIM?

[Astrid]

Maggie has not been sleeping well overnight, but then neither am I. The weather has just gotten icky and she is a hot sleeper.

Well last night (Thurs) was so so. I got her to sleep ok, but was unable to leave her without her waking. In the end I just stayed with her and went to sleep early. I was very tired anyway and welcomed the excuse to go to bed early.

Tonight (Fri) was a bit of a mess. She had no afternoon nap, so was very tired by the time I could get her to bed. We did not eat together. She went to sleep feeding and slept/fed for 1/2 hour. Thought I had it easy, but no, she decided to wake after her feed. So I let her play a bit with DH whilst I had a quick snack. Took her back to the bedroom, she was tired, but fighting sleep. None of her sleep music would work, had to change to UB40 and that worked.

Notes: Erratic naps definitely seem to affect how well she goes down at night. The temp of the last couple of nights has not helped and she has not slept well and that in turn mucks up her naps. She does not nap to a set time, even though for a few weeks she always went down at 9.30am (her choice). Bit of a vicious circle really.
Must admit some nights I really don't want to go though it all and just want to veg on the couch, but I force myself to do it.

[Astrid]

Still going with this, even though I took a break last night, personal crap going on. Maggie still went to sleep fine though.

Tonight I could see more of her trying to settle herself, I just wish she would stop getting so distracted. She lies down in her sleep position and turns her head to one side and starts to giggle! Strange. Anyway she was asleep by 8.30 and is now still asleep. So she did not do her normal wake after 40 minutes. Wonder if this is a one off or the start of something positive.

DH is away again so I hope it is better this week

[Trillian]

Good girl Maggie! it sometimes seems like there is no light at the end of the tunnel, but you will get there. The best thing is that you are sticking to your plan and not letting little setbacks stop you.

You are going great!

[Astrid]

Really wasn't the best at keeping to the night ritual this week. Maggie definitely seems to be going through some changes. Her own attempts to settle really seem to be stopping her from sleeping. Poor thing, she sits up and flops back down, tosses and turns. The only way to help her is to partially wake her up, change the music and then she will seem to settle into sleep.

She did that at 3am this morning. I had to get her up after I caught her kneeling next to DH's head making her excited noise and hitting him in the head :shock: It was funny though Did get her re settled till 4.15

Hoping the colder weather will help, but we will have to get a heater for the bedroom before it gets too cold.

[Astrid]

Last night I got really stressed. Maggie was doing her close to sleep thing, but I could not get her over the edge. Cracked it completely. It is like my patience switch gets suddenly switched off. Gave her to DH in the lounge. Really ****ed at him, his bloody EQII was more important than settling his daughter, he needed her to wait 15 minutes before he could deal with her. Anyway I got her to sleep in front of the computer and he still had not finished over half an hour later - selfish ***** :fuming:

Her sleep overnight was terrible again. Both she and I were sleeping quite well, but then we had to get up at 5.30 to drop DH at work (he is away again this week). Normally she goes back to sleep on the drive back home, but this time she did not. So I am absolutely exhausted this morning. Managed to get her to sleep, but when I tried to get us both back to bed, the cat decided it was time to scream for breakfast, even though I made sure they had food earlier. So we are not still awake.

Really need a way to get her settled for naps, I am spending half my day either trying to get her to sleep for naps or her night sleep. Today it is just too much to deal with

[Astrid]

Have decided to try lavender tonight to see if that helps her sleep. I put some on my pillow and a cotton ball hidden under her sheets in her cot. Not sure if she settle easier, but it wasn't any harder. She did wake after and hour, but was easily resettled. Now it is getting colder I am loosely wrapping her. Hoping this might help keep her to sleep.

Have shuffled her times for daylight savings ending. So I am doing dinner around 5 and it flows on from there. So it looks as though I am getting her to sleep by 7:30, bit tricky, but it makes me feel better.

For the last week she will not sit still for her story. Thought she might be bored with it, so I tried another, but that did not help. I still read to her as she moves around, sometimes she will stop and look at the pages then go back to trying to get at everything on the bedside table.

[BellyBelly]

Astrid, do you do much during the day in the way of play groups, play centres etc? Maybe she needs extra stimulation to zonk out. Marisa was like that, would have to wear her out in every way all day to get her sleeping at a reasonable hour. I think some just take more than others, and that's apersonality thing...

[Astrid]

Kelly - I do have MG once a week, and I try to together with another mum once a week. If I had the money I would take her to Gymbaroo or some other baby class. My MCHN did suggest I do as much with her as possible, not to tire her out, but more to do with her being a bright and active little thing that needs to learn heaps. Need to wrok something out for her though. :-k

[luscious Laura]

I know Maggie is older so not sure if this stuff works on older babies, but Luxxe is one of those babies that demands a constant change of scenery for visual stimulation... and as the house and garden are nowboring, we're starting on art galleries, museums and botanical gardens.

most of which are free too!

plus lots of things for her to learn and fill her mind with and hopefully tire her out.