Jan, thank you so much for your help. they are great ideas. I think the hardest thing for me is having the confidence that it will work. I've tried patting him and it can take over an hour and then he only sleeps for 20 minutes and he is so tired and I'm tired!, sometimes its just so easy to give up and just put him on the sling. when you try a method do you not do the sling or offer the breast at all until they got the new method? or do you face out the sling/breast slowly?