Occupy Melbourne/Wall St discussion

[Maruschke]

Same deal... that will be passed back on to the consumers, with higher item prices and lower employment.

[Sopdet]

what they are protesting for in the USA is valid, what they are protesting about here in Australia is not an issue

Annoying the crap out of people isn't the way to get your voice heard, and they annoyed the crap out of me on Friday when they disrupted not only my work, they discrupted the distribution of confidential documentation around the city and stopped me getting home by my normal route (which is to walk but they were all converging on the main way I walk home)

[~ Zarava Flutterby ~]

While i understand that causes such as this need a voice and i understand the right and need for people to be able to protest i think there are better ways to get this message across.
As someone who knows very little about it and doesn't get to see a lot of media during the day there is no actual understanding of their 'solutions' to the issues they are protesting about.
My heart broke the other day when i saw a mother clutching at her son who was in tears while police were trying to remove her, no offence ladies but who does that to a child, was she using him as an excuse for police NOT to drag her away.
I think there should be peaceful protests but these should not be taken to the extreme of blocking off public areas for days at a time with a tent city, upon being asked by police to vacate and then crying fowl when your forcibly removed, i also don't agree with taking and keeping young children at these events, no matter your beliefs your child should not have to be involved and witness such things.

PZ - i'm not referring to you taking Isla, i see no issue with going to a peaceful demonstration with a little one in a sling (unless you plan on being dragged off by the police) but there's a fine line.

[Cassius2]

what they are protesting for in the USA is valid, what they are protesting about here in Australia is not an issue

why is not an issue here in Australia?

Australia is part of the world economy, our companies and our government engage in the market economy. I am not sure how your statement makes sense?

I think that people will find that once they actually attend a general assembly and engage with the movement on a even footing (ie stepping away from radio and television) that what you will find is a really diverse group of people attempting to create change. Not only change in the way liberal economic markets are handled, but also change in the way in which publics engage with and help determine those policies and actions.

Maybe we are foolish for wanting and demanding change. But I will never lose hope, and whenever there is an opportunity for collective outpouring I will be there.

I bring my girls. Why? Because it is safe. What happened on Friday morning was horrific and unprecedented. We were the only country other than Bahrain to use such violent dispersal. Thankfully, there was the chance for people to leave before it got ugly and our family decided to not attend as I am not interested in my girls witnessing such repression of freedom of expression and the right to protest (and not to mention the unexpected violence). But we were there a few hours later and crossed the police line to attend. And it was safe. Because the Occupy movement is a PEACEFUL one.

I have NO IDEA where people are getting the idea that the protesters are being 'silly' or 'fools'?? I have attended Occupy Melbourne and I have not seen this behaviour? What have I seen? I have the militarisation of the city of Melbourne by the police. A militarisation of a city and the violent dispersal of people who have the constitutional right to protest in a public space. I am with PZ on this one, dismantle the tents, but do not disallow people from protesting. That is unconstitutional. And the world WAS watching and there has been widespread condemnation of the violent actions undertaken by the police force that day (and no, not just by radical, uni hippies lol!).

A little insight into just who is attending the assemblies and the debates and discusssion sessions (the marches and the protests are only a small component of the Occupy movements BTW): we have families, uni students, nurses, midwives, construction workers, lawyers, academics, hippies, union representatives, BB members (), NGOs, homeless representatives. This is what makes the movement unique. It is for everybody because it concerns everyone.

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

We were the only country other than Bahrain to use such violent dispersal.

Really? Did you know in the UK it is illegal to protest within a mile of parliament now - just in case the politicians are upset that they aren't representing the people they claim to.

Did you know that peaceful student protests were greeted with the riot police - they didn't stay peaceful for long. Then we wonder why we have riots and blame the schools (which were on summer holidays).

I'm actually for the cost of living going down, bank managers having their pay cut in half and no bonuses (they still earn more than DH and I combined even with that) and other bank workers salary to match - after all, I bailed out the banks with my tax money, I expect to see some regulation. That's the main thing I want to see - banks not profiting from the trouble they put the financial world in.

Don't know of any system that actually works better than capitalism in practice though. Others sound better in theory but never seem to work out that way and end up worse than capitalism. Reined in capitalism would be good.

[*Ang*]

Out of curiosity and bearing in mind that a) I am not in Melbourne and therefore am unable to attend and b) I can only judge by what I read in the media so therefore my view is obviously tainted...can someone please tell me what the purpose was last night of singling out and targeting a police officer by printing his details on a flyer and handing them out? Yes I know that the flyer said that he is a "violent" person but at the end of the day was he not just doing his job?

[Miss E]

I've been reading this thread for quite awhile, but haven't said much for a host of reasons... But as per my previous post, in principle I agree with the ideals of the Occupy protestors - capitalism is out of control and better regulation is needed to ensure a more equitable society (my words not theirs). But what gets me (and disheartens me) is all the ridiculous propaganda that is being thrown around by protestors. There is so much misinformation out there, that there is very little hope of anything positive every being achieved.

But for the purpose of this discussion, I wanted to come and put some facts on the table:

1. Occupy Melbourne - City Square Eviction
This was not initiated by the Victoria Police. It was all initiated and directed by the Melbourne City Council (primarily the Mayor, Robert Doyle). While the city square is used as a public place, it is actually private property that is owned by the Melbourne City Council (MCC). The MCC decided that they wanted to evict the protestors from their land (probably because the Queen was coming to town). As any land holder has the right to do, they had the police issue eviction notices. When the protestors failed to comply with the eviction notice, they ordered the police to forcibly remove the protestors. THIS WAS NOT INITIATED BY THE POLICE, THE POLICE WERE SIMPLY DOING THEIR JOB- AS THEY WOULD FOR ANY OTHER HOLDER OF PRIVATE PROPERTY.

So let's give the police a break and perhaps focus our anger at the MCC. I agree that what happened in the City Square was disgusting and unnecessary. It goes against the very essence of democracy. But at the end of the day the police were just doing their job. 1

2. There has been no Australian Government bank bailout

I bailed out the banks with my tax money, I expect to see some regulation.

Unless you are a US tax payer, you haven't bailed out the banks. The Australian banking system is the most regulated in the world, and I believe that it is for reason that our banks (and citizens) came out of the GFC relatively unscarred.

The issues highlighted by the Occupy group (along with my personal stance) are more to do with the US and some European countries banks, who with the absence of regulation are pretty much a law unto themselves. As a result, profits are allowed to drive everything which has resulted in the economic mess the world is in today. If other countries had banking regulations even half as robust as Australia's, the world would be a much better place.

And for my own take on the situation...

Like I said to begin with, I in principle agree with the big picture ideals of the Occupy movement. But the problem here is there is no real organised protest occurring. They don't have a leader, so when they issue a statement saying that they didn't endorse the pamphlets, nobody is going to listen. If this group wants to be taken seriously (and get some outcomes) they need to work within the systems that already exist. Elect a leader/spokesperson, form some clear cut policies (rather than riding on the back of an unworkable robin hood tax proposal), lobby political leaders and perhaps even form their own political party. Then there may be some hope of them being taken seriously.

[Traveller]

I don't have a huge amount to add, except to address the point above about us not having bailed out the banks. The Flying Butter lives in the UK, where she did bail out the banks through her taxes (as did I) and I believe that is what she is referring to

However I am enjoying this thread as I was completely ignorant about what the protesters were protesting and why.

[Miss E]

I don't have a huge amount to add, except to address the point above about us not having bailed out the banks. The Flying Butter lives in the UK, where she did bail out the banks through her taxes (as did I) and I believe that is what she is referring to

Sorry, I didn't realise that - just assumed she was here.

I'm actually feeling really silly now, I was wondering what the riots etc she was referring to were - silly me