Would you continue to use this product?

**boomba** · June 17th, 2010, 07:25 PM

I am readling a fab book called slow death by rubber duck...which is about all the chemicals etc in everyday life and how they are affecting us.
anyway I began re reading the ingredients list on all my personal care stuff...I use moo goo everything cause i love it...now I always thought they were very ethically concious and still believe they are...but they use palm oil in some products.
i know not all plantations are bad, but I sent them a quick email just asking what they thought and this was their response.....

Thanks for the email. As you probably would guess, the amount of Palm Oil we use in minimal inour milk soaps , about 10g in each bar of Milk Soap which helps the quality(more suds). The Palm Oil we get is from existing plantations, which arenormally converted rubber plantations. However, in our opinion, the "BanPalm Oil" argument seems to have lost its logic and is more about marketingnow. Any product requires ingredients, the important thing is that theingredient does not cause forest clearing. If we choose an alternative ingredient the environmental consequences can bejust as bad. For example substituting in more cocoa butter. If we chose thecheapest Cocoa Butter, it may come from plantations in Africa that use childlabour. So although we are Palm Oil free, the consequences are worse. Some other companies say that they import their Palm Oil from countriesother than Malaysia. As well as adding immensely to transportation andagainst the "buy local", we would assume that even Mexican plantations havereplaced the natural environment there as well. Any consumption of naturalproducts requires farms which have replaced the native vegetation. Using thelogic that all Palm Oil is bad because it uses land that used to be forests,then even our own wheat is unacceptable. Our creams are made in an environmental commercial park that uses its ownrainwater and uses its own environmental waste treatment system. We userecycled paper for our brochures and boxes, recycleable packaging, and werecycle our shipping cartons, as well as sourcing our ingredients fromestablished plantations. If we thought we were helping by banning Palm Oil,we would do it in an instant. But in our opinion, it would not help in anyway other than marketing. Instead, we make sure our ingredients are notsourced from new plantations. It is a very hard issue and everybody has different opinions, but that iswhere we are at the moment. However if you have a different opinion it wouldbe good to hear. Thanks again,

I have come to the conclusion that they are right kinda and will probably continue to use the product but what do you think....I need to pick some brains as i ahve no one else to talk too

**Trillian** · June 17th, 2010, 07:27 PM

DOn't have time to answer now, but it is certainly food for thought. I'll be back tomorrow when I've had more time.

**boomba** · June 17th, 2010, 07:33 PM

Thanks Trill....
spose its the lesser of 2 evils...but where do we draw the line...do we make our own lines?

I dont think I can live without the stuff.....its fairly cheap and works well....what else could i use!

**Phteven** · June 17th, 2010, 08:03 PM

I hope Junglemum reads this thread because she knows all about palm oil.
Anyways there is an ethical palm oil certification process so palm oil needn't be awful.
I think that it is encouraging that they have put thought into it.

**krysalyss** · June 17th, 2010, 08:11 PM

I feel that they are copping out. They don't want to change their product and have thought up an excuse to use it. The fact is that they don't need palm oil grown in unsustainable ways. Indonesia loses about 300 football fields of forest every hour!!! and most of that is from unsustainable palm oil practices. After all you have to ask, what does anyone have to gain from the palm oil campaign. Non-profits have to spend so much time and money getting people to realise the impact of this crop. Companies save money by not having to change their practices.

The Palm Oil we get is from existing plantations, which arenormally converted rubber plantations.

- this is bollocks in that existing palm oil plantations are normall converted rubber plantations. They are normally converted forest. Also palm oil is so mixed up you can never tell what you are actually getting and where it comes from.

If we chose thecheapest Cocoa Butter, it may come from plantations in Africa that use childlabour. So although we are Palm Oil free, the consequences are worse.

To justify they are using other examples they are also bad. In my opinion this is simply their marketing. Nowhere in their response do they talk about the possibilities of sourcing from palm oil plantations that meet any kind of standard including fair trade when it is known the human rights abuses are linked with palm oil plantations.

**boomba** · June 17th, 2010, 08:15 PM

So Kyrsalyss does that mean there is no palm oil which is ok?
I totally agree about the whole maketing thing...how can wanting to ban something that is devestating certain parts of the world be marketing? this upset me too...maybe someone can write to them who is more eloquent than me to ask them why?

**Bathsheba** · June 18th, 2010, 08:46 PM

.... And if it's not the dangerous ingredients, packaging, child labour, unfair trade it could also be the consumer miles. I buy MooGoo partly because it's made here in Australia and ridiculous amounts of fossil fuels don't need to be used to get it to me. I feel guilty enough that I have a passion for Belgium chocolate so I try to make up for that by buying locally made products if they tick a lot of other ethical boxes. I think it's all about balancing the scales. MooGoo tips the scales in favour of good ethics more than most other personal body care brands.

**boomba** · June 18th, 2010, 09:48 PM

.... I think it's all about balancing the scales. MooGoo tips the scales in favour of good ethics more than most other personal body care brands.

Yup thats what I think too...I suppose the email kinda threw a spanner in the works cause I was really hoping they would say sure we use ethical palm oil...we grow it in our backyard

But I am so happy they were honest and quick to repsond... the email arrived the next day...plus aussie made and owned

I think I am at peace!