Exclusive Expressers

[surprised]

Hi Fleur

Thanks for your original reply (you too kmn), and thanks for checking up on me!

Getting into more of a routine now, but I'm still paranoid that I'm doing something wrong and will run out of milk too soon.

Expressing 5x per day and getting about a litre per day - seems to be a consistent 200mL at each session. He's drinking 780mL, so I have an ever-increasing freezer supply! I don't know what I'm meant to do with it, and pretty soon I won't be able to fit a loaf of bread in the freezer!

The pain is slowly subsiding - the GP confirmed my suspicions that I have had thrush. Now I'm wondering if I should try to move back to bfeeding since in theory the pain should be less, but I have an extremely happy, settled and long-sleeping baby and I'm really reluctant to risk disturbing that! Maybe I'll try it one day this week during the day - at least if he's unsettled, I can get him back to routine by night-time.

I'm a bit confused about how to combine breast and bottle feeding. I'm worried that if he doesn't empty properly after a feed, then I will slowly drop my supply. Should I be expressing after I feed him?

Thanks again for your encouragement!

[Fleur]

Surprised, good to hear things sound like they are going well?

Your supply sounds pretty good to me especially if it's consistent. I know what you mean though, I was (still am!) very paranoid about my supply, I have ended up with an oversupply & I still worry about losing my milk.
I have found though on the one or two occasions that it did drop, a few days & it was right back where it was before, so I have a bit more peace of mind these days.

Re your excess milk - that's great to have a stash in the freezer! I ran out of room too
Depending on where you are you can donate to one of the milk banks. or just keep it in case you need it. I donated pretty much all of my excess milk up until a month or so ago. If you're in QLD, PM me & I will give you details, or if you google Mother's Milk Bank you should be able to find it. I think the other one is on Melbourne or Sydney, can't remember, Manta Ray will know...

Great to hear your pain is subsiding. Once the thrush is gone things should be much more comfortable for you.

As for what to do now - it's totally up to you but here is what I would do if I were you.
I would try to go back to BFIng. Give it a shot - if it works, it will be a much easier journey long term for you. It might take a few days to get into the swing of it, don't expect it to happen overnight. An LC would be a great idea to help you get back to breast.
If it doesn't work out for you then you can go back to expressing. You know what you're doing now, and it won't take long to get back into the swing of it.

If you can get him back to the breast. let him sort your supply out with how much he wants. He doesn't necessarily have to empty your breast in a feed, he just has to take what he needs. Your body will work out what is surplus & stop producing that amount.
If your supply does drop too much, you have a nice stash of EBM there if you need it so that's a great backup and a day or two of expressing after a feed will get it back up again.

Again, this is just what I would do - but it is such a personal decision, you really have to choose what is going to work for you & your bub.

Good luck with whatevr you choose to do you've done a great job so far. Keep us posted

[~mamaspice~]

Wow, what a great thread. I haven't had time to read it all yet, but you ladies are so inspirational.

To give you a quick run down I seriously bombed out with breastfeeding first time around. In hospital ( I was in there 5 nights due to private hosp and c-section) I thought I was doing okay although from day 3 onwards bub was extremely unsettled and cried ALOT. On day 5, the night before we were due to go home, bub was weighed and had gone from a birthweight of 3410gms down to 2900gms, so had lost more than 10% of her birthweight. The midwife wanted to supervise her next feed and all of a sudden I was being told my milk hadn't come in and bub wasn't attaching right. A lactation consultant came in and we tried for a while to get her to attach, to no avail. In the end in my sleep deprived, hormonal state I said I would express milk for her. So they gave her a bottle of formula and put me on the pump. Got bearly 10mls of EBM from the hospital pump.
So the next day I was sent home with an instruction to express, then give her formula each feed as a top up. I found each feed so hard as my supply was never great (most I got from each expression was about 30mls) so each feed was expressing then formula feeding and twice the bottles each time etc. I was uneducated. I didn't know BB existed and in a state of desperation I put DD solely on formula from about 3 weeks

I dearly want to BF this time around but I'm concerned about attachment and supply issues again. Also I will probably be back working part time by the time the new bub is 4-5 months old. If I cannot BF successfully I really want to be able to express. I have a double electric breastpump and I now know of things such as motillium to help with supply (no-one gave me the option of motillium last time and i so wish they had as I just needed to get a good supply when I expressed).

So my question is, if I end up making the decision to exclusively give my new bub EBM, if I take motillium, how many time a day would I most likely need to express?

thanks for reading

[ezymay]

Hun I know this is the EE thread but please don't think you won't be able to bf next time around. I will be trying with all of my heart to avoid EEing. But if that's how things end up with a new born I was expressing every 2-3 hours. I eventually got to every fours hours that included overnight tho. 30mls is quite good for early days! I remember being so excited to get 50, then 80...then eventually I would get 300. I took motilium pretty much the whole time. The thing is taking it only works if you remove the milk you make so you still need to pump regularly, otherwise your body thinks you don't need the milk you are making.
Good luck, take a look at the whole thread there are some very good tips in it

[Fleur]

MamaSpice you never know how different your journey this time might be! All kinds of things might be different...with four kids, I have had four different experiences.

If you DO end up EE, the best thing I think is regular expressing, I was pumping every three hours to begin with, and I pumped overnight for 6 months.

And one thing I will say is that if you have to EE, there is no place better to come than here, for advice & support - but I will be wishing you all the best with BFing

[starangelk]

Hi ladies, I hope you don't mind me dropping in on this thread - if this is the wrong place to post - please let me know.

We are due to have a baby in the next little while (trying not to get caught up in the whole due date thing) and my DH is going to be the SAHD and I am headed back to work. I run my own business so I am flexible with when I go back and on what terms and I have some wonderful staff but realistically, I am going back and we plan/really hope that I will be able to express.

I know this is an exclusive expressing thread so I hope some of you can answer some questions please:

1 - Did you ever breastfeed or express right from word go? The reason I ask is because I have been doing alot of reading and trying to become educated about the whole thing but some books say you shouldn't even try and express before 6 weeks because you can lose your supply?
2 - Do you recommend breastfeeding and expressing like some of the books say or do you think it really needs to be one or the other?

Thanks in advance for your help

[surprised]

Fleur - you will be so proud of me - we have been doing mostly bfeeds since Monday! Yay! Still very painful at the start, but it usually subsides, so I figure it's just that initial pain and will stop in the next couple of weeks. I am still expressing sometimes if I need a rest, or when DH does the early morning feed. Now I understand why people say breastfeeding is easier! But I also don't think expressing is as bad as people think! Thank you so much for your encouragement - lots of people had been telling me to try bfeeding again, but it was your comments and reassurance that made me finally do it!

Hi Starangel - congrats on your impending arrival! I tried bfeeding for a couple of days in hospital, and was on the pump full-time from day 4. I pretty much expressed exclusively until 7 weeks, which was this week. I tried a couple of breastfeeds in that time - prob 5 all up. Now have successfully gotten back to bfeeding, but still doing at least 1 feed a day by bottle.

I haven't had problems with supply. If anything, I have too much. I expressed 5 or 6 times a day from the beginning, with a couple of 7 and 8 hour breaks, which I'm told breaks all the rules. I also used the avent teats which are too fast for some babies, and I even introduced a Medela teat with no problems. I started using a dummy from week 4 (he really obviously needed to suck and wasn't getting that with bottlefeeding). All these things break the rules and he is doing really well. However, I think it very much depends on the baby and on you - I'm saying this because I was paranoid about breaking the rules for several weeks, until I realised it was all ok for me.

I have been having lots of oats, raspberry leaf tea and occasionally activite for supply - don't think I've necessarily needed them, but I like them all anyway!

Have so much more to tell you but need to get some washing out (cloth nappies!) - please keep asking your questions and we'll do our best to answer.

PS If you want to find more info about exclusively expressing (not that you are planning on that, but it's good to hear from women who spend a lot of time on pumps!), in the US it's called 'exclusively pumping' - you'll need to use that in Google rather than 'exclusively expressing'.

[Fleur]

yay!!! Surprised, I am so happy to read your post & hear how well things are going for you...it's put a big smile on my face I can hear how much happier you sound, and it's wonderful to hear that you are having success with the BFing. You have done so well to persist with it this long! so wonderful to hear that it's paying off

Starangel, I'm much like surprised... I was on the pump from day one due to a lazy feeder, the nurses were worried about getting my supply in, then I was exclusively expressing from day 5. I have also ended up with an oversupply which I put down to pumping so much in the early days.

As for your situation - I think part of the problem with expressing & supply is that not all women have success with pumping. It can be a matter of finding a different pump, or often the breast just doesn't respond to a pump at all as it does to a baby.
If you have trouble removing milk from the breast, that is where supply issues will come up. But I wouldn't think there is any problem with combining feeding and then expressing, or expressing if it's working IYKWIM? it's just that if you are going to rely on the pump at all, you have to be diligent.

The other thing is if you are planning on BFing - and it is much easier - then I would suggest at least 6-8 weeks of exclusive BFing first, to get that well established before you introduce a bottle.

Sounds as though you are definitely planning on some expressing, so maybe in that first few weeks get started trying out the pump & see how it goes for you, if you are expressing in that time, you could freeze it & you'll have a head start then

Good luck!

[Kmn]

Hi Starangel,
The issue with early expressing is not so much that you lose your supply, but that some babies can develop a distinct preference for the bottle to the extent that they won't breastfeed properly and then there isn't enough sucking happening to maintain supply.
For expressing at work you want to be able to get a decent amount out quickly. This usually means a double pump. Double pumps are expensive to buy, so you may want to look at hiring one. The ABA has cheaper rates than chemists, but they may not always have pumps available. If you have a fridge where you can put the milk and the milky pump bits then you don't have to wash them between pumps - just give them a decent scrub when you get home. Take a towel or a couple of cloth nappies with you - expressing can be a bit messy!
With a little one you may find that you are expressing over half a litre in a typical work day - in several sessions.
Aso - how far away from home is your business? You may actually find it easiest initially to get bub delivered to you for feeds sometimes!

[Kmn]

And surprised - well done! It looks like you now have all systems go.
If in a few weeks things still hurt (or if they start to hurt more than just at the start of a feed) then head back to the LC.

[starangelk]

Thanks everyone All your advice makes alot of sense, I guess I will just need to wait and see. The hospital has already made some notes for me to see a lactation consultant so I feel happy about that, at least I will be able to get some assistance with this. My office isn't too far away so DH will probably come and deliver the baby for at least one BF/day which will be helpful. I guess as a first time Mum I just really have no idea how it is going to work. I think I'll be back in this thread asking for lots of advice

[Fleur]

No worries hun I think it's great that you are so prepared now!

[*Infinity*]

Hi ladies

Just crashing this thread to get some advice about electric breast pumps. My DD is currently in NICU for a long stay and consequently I am expressing for her and will be doing so for a number of months. I have a Medela manual pump at the moment which is doing the job but I do want to invest in a good electric pump, Medela is my preference. I really like the idea of a pump I can double express with - but I'm looking at around $500-600 and just need some experienced expressers to let me know if it is really worth that extra money? Instinctively I know it will be, just need to make up my mind LOL! I think the Medela Swing is a single pump which sells for around $250 and one of the other NICU mums said she loves it, but it can't double pump so I'm a bit hesitant.

I have a 12 month old boy at home and need to maximise my time as much as possible so can't be strapped to a pump all day.

TIA

[surprised]

Hi Infinity,

I bought a Medela Freestyle, and I found it to be good (although of course nowhere near the Symphony). It is nice and portable, and you can (in theory) use it hands-free (although I haven't managed that). Battery lasts for a nice amount of time, and you can use it while it is recharging. I would also recommend investing in an electric steriliser, as you'll spend that much money in Milton tablets anyway.

I bought a larger size flange (30mm; comes with 24 mm), but it's really hard to tell what the right size is. As long as you're not having probs, I'd stick with the size it comes with.

One word of warning - when I was in hospital with mastitis last week, I went a bit crazy on the Symphony, desperately trying to get lumps out. But it actually made my nipples bleed because I had it up too high! So just remember that nice and gently does it!

[Fleur]

I would go either Medela or Ameda, i haven't used Medela apart from in hossy but have heard good things about them, I used the Ameda Purely yours but I did burn out one pump and the other was ex-hire so probably not the pumps fault. I know of one woman who pumped for twins for a year on teh Ameda & it was still going

I got mine for $300 new on EBay, retail is around $330 I think, they have a great range of accessories (and is a double pump too).

[belfie]

I really like the idea of a pump I can double express with - but I'm looking at around $500-600 and just need some experienced expressers to let me know if it is really worth that extra money? Instinctively I know it will be, just need to make up my mind LOL! I think the Medela Swing is a single pump which sells for around $250 and one of the other NICU mums said she loves it, but it can't double pump so I'm a bit hesitant.

I have a 12 month old boy at home and need to maximise my time as much as possible so can't be strapped to a pump all day.

TIA

Infinity - i think your gut feeling is absolutely spot on. I think you cannot measure the difference that double versus single pumping makes! For a start you'll save time, but you'll also collect more. I found when I was single pumping I always leaked on the other side, and then got less on the other side by the time I got there. Honestly, if you compare it to paying for formula, it's amazing how soon they actually do pay for themselves. I personally had a Medela Pump In Style which is designed for longer-term double-pumping. I used mine for just under a year and had no problems with it. It's basically the personal version of the Symphony but more portable and not as dear as a Symphony would be. I agree with fleur too, look on ebay and look for specials. I bought mine online with no problems.

Second tip - handsfree expressing bra is an absolute sanity saver. You can google easy expressions bustier or halter. I know others have also created their own by doing some judicious cutting! Once you see what they look like, it gives you an idea of how to make your own (basically 2 holes in the right spot that hold the pumping doovers in place!). GL with it!

[ezymay]

Def go the double for long term expressing. For all the reasons listed! I had the medela pump in style but would have loved the freestyle. It came out just as I was finishing pumping.
You will be pumping A LOT so the double will be a life saver as well as getting around hands free expressing! After I started hands free well life got better
Remember whatever the amount of ebm your tiny princess gets it is a gift good luck I'm following your journey for sure!

[melbel]

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents worth Infinity. I have been exclusively expressing for five months now with the medela pump in style.....definitely go for a double pump, it makes life so mch easier and is so much more effective. Also second (or third) the pumping bra...it is awesome...I am pump and feed mu bubba a bottle at the same time or pump and play with him to keep him occupied...before I had the bra it was a real PITA to keep him settled for the length of time it took to get all the milk out. If you go for a medela I would reccomend either the pump in style or the newer model the freestyle...if we could have afforded the freestyle at the time we would have got it. in hindisght we should have paid the extra as it has a rechargable battery and the times I have used the pump instyle on battery power it has chewed through them so in the long run the freestyle would have worked out cheaper. It is also smaller meaning you could walk around the house and still pump if you wanted to....If you are going to be doing it long term these are all things to think about......